Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory #3

[Tamarind]

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...ived-at-home-of-wayne-and-dellen-millard.html

See, and this is an easy situation for an alcoholic to live with, because at 7 calories per gram, alcohol provides plenty of calories. Many don't eat at all. Of course all that drinking is really going to aggravate your rosacea I think there are a load of tells that WM really had a problem, and how could that not affect the way DM thought and saw the world?

WM the alleged victim didn't eat, had rosacea and really had a problem???.....along with all the other terrible problems he allegedly had according to your earlier post !!!! Is it any wonder he committed suicide? The poor man had no chance judging by how some have denigrated him and minimized anything he may have accomplished. He is an alleged victim here is he not?

 

[Tamarind]

Investigating officers may have concluded suicide, but the coroner did not.

"However, after charges were laid in Bosma’s murder, the office of the Ontario chief coroner said the investigation into Wayne Millard’s death was “still ongoing.”

“(It’s) open and has not yet concluded,” Cheryl Mahyr, the coroner’s issues manager, said in May."

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...r_lengthy_delay_in_dellen_millard_probes.html

This has been pointed out in the past but you seem to keep forgetting this information.

You seem to be forgetting that the coroners office takes some time to conclude. The fact that the matter was still open and hadn't concluded does not mean the investigation was necessarily still ongoing IMO. Maybe LE applied to keep it open longer, once they decided to zone in on DM. Please provide a link where it states the investigation was ongoing since his death, and not simply the matter of closing a coroners file taking its usual time or that the original investigation was still active without any of the family knowing.

 

[SnooperDuper]

??? A brain aneurysm is basically a sudden bleed to the brain when it ruptures, yes?

Neither is a bullet to the head

 

[SnooperDuper]

You seem to be forgetting that the coroners office takes some time to conclude. The fact that the matter was still open and hadn't concluded does not mean the investigation was necessarily still ongoing IMO. Maybe LE applied to keep it open longer, once they decided to zone in on DM. Please provide a link where it states the investigation was ongoing since his death, and not simply the matter of closing a coroners file taking its usual time or that the original investigation was still active without any of the family knowing.

And on Thursday, the office of the chief coroner for Ontario confirmed they are still investigating the apparent death by suicide of Dellen Millard's father, Wayne Millard,in November.

Toronto Police confirmed they went to the Etobicoke home on Maple Gate Court jointly owned by Millard and his father on Nov. 29, 2012, for a death investigation that was deemed "not criminal."

But almost six months since his death, the investigation into Wayne's death is still "ongoing."

"His death is still under investigation," said Cheryl Mahyr, issues manager for the coroner's office. "So it's still open and has not yet concluded."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2878073-bosma-slain-inside-his-truck-source-says/

 

[Tamarind]

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2878073-bosma-slain-inside-his-truck-source-says/

hmmm... so lets get this straight, the death was ruled as a suicide !

The body was cremated and life went on.

Then several months later, when the son of the man who had committed suicide as was definitely determined by police at the time, gets charged with allegedly killing his dad, and the suicide becomes open to offers as to whether or not it was a suicide. Out of the blue, charges of murder are made against the son, suggesting that the police either were incompetent at the scene of the death or someone is alleging something that is untrue ( which wouldn't be the first time.)

Basically the original determination of suicide that allowed the body to be cremated is now worthless and suspiciously false.

I fail to see how an investigation continued after the death had been deemed a suicide by police. Coroner files can take months to close so IMO the police contacted the coroners office and forced the issue that an investigation was taking place ( mid/late 2013). So it's my opinion that the police had concluded the investigation back in 2012 but instigated a new one (for whatever reason) and contacted the coroners office to keep file as active. JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Please provide a link where it states the investigation was ongoing since his death

But almost six months since his death, the investigation into Wayne's death is still "ongoing."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2878073-bosma-slain-inside-his-truck-source-says/

 

[Tamarind]

But almost six months since his death, the investigation into Wayne's death is still "ongoing."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2878073-bosma-slain-inside-his-truck-source-says/

I don't see how that would have been possible. As far as the police were concerned they said it was suicide. They were not questioning anyone and were not looking for a murderer. They in fact had moved on from the matter after November 2012. If you have any links that suggest the opposite please post. ( I dont mean that link from 8 months after the suicide, I mean the time following the suicide.)

That they start investigating 6-8 months later seems odd and obviously their initial investigation must now be under scrutiny including the officers involved IMO.

I find the comment from the coroners office is not accurate because imo the investigation was over, it had to have been for no further inquiries or followups or people of interest being interviewed. It must have been reactivated by the police ( for whatever reason). MOO

 

[Carli]

A couple of things. The Coroner earlier stated that they never investigated the death of LB, thus indicating that her death did not occur in Ontario. Has the Coroner since recanted that statement? Is there an ongoing Coroner's investigation in LB's case? Is there an ongoing Coroner's investigation in TB's case? Is it usual that the Ontario Coroner takes more than two years to investigate a death or is this unique to WM's case?

http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/engl...onersInvestigations/OCC_common_questions.html

 

[Alethea Dice]

But almost six months since his death, the investigation into Wayne's death is still "ongoing."

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/2878073-bosma-slain-inside-his-truck-source-says/

Keep reading, SnooperDuper. From your link:

The coroner's office did not clarify if the case had been concluded and then reopened or what impact the cremation would have on an ongoing investigation.

 

[Alethea Dice]

I don't see how that would have been possible. As far as the police were concerned they said it was suicide. They were not questioning anyone and were not looking for a murderer. They in fact had moved on from the matter after November 2012. If you have any links that suggest the opposite please post. ( I dont mean that link from 8 months after the suicide, I mean the time following the suicide.)

That they start investigating 6-8 months later seems odd and obviously their initial investigation must now be under scrutiny including the officers involved IMO.

I find the comment from the coroners office is not accurate because imo the investigation was over, it had to have been for no further inquiries or followups or people of interest being interviewed. It must have been reactivated by the police ( for whatever reason). MOO

I think the most honest answer received from the Coroner's office was:

Originally viewed as a suicide and, although his body was cremated, Wayne’s death is still “an ongoing investigation,” said Dorothy Zwolakowski, a strategic advisor for the Ontario Coroner’s Office.

She could not say whether the case was reopened because of recent events or had never been closed.

It is still open and ongoing .... and has been since it was reopened after TB's death. I doubt the Coroner's office would openly admit to the press that they had closed the file and have now reopened it in light of the charges in TB's death. No one wants to look that negligent to the masses. Instead they choose their words carefully.

LE reopened their investigation after the first charges. It would only make sense that the Coroner's office did too.

Police have also reopened the investigation into the death of Millard’s father, Wayne. His death was previously ruled a suicide.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-slaying-linked-to-laura-babcock-wayne-millard-cases-opp-1.1894166

Wayne Millard reportedly died of a gunshot to the left side of his head in November 2012. The death was originally deemed a suicide, but was reopened as a homicide investigation after Millard was charged in Bosma's death.

http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4457998-bosma-accused-killer-dellen-millard-charged-with-murdering-father/

 

[Alethea Dice]

A couple of things. The Coroner earlier stated that they never investigated the death of LB, thus indicating that her death did not occur in Ontario. Has the Coroner since recanted that statement? Is there an ongoing Coroner's investigation in LB's case? Is there an ongoing Coroner's investigation in TB's case? Is it usual that the Ontario Coroner takes more than two years to investigate a death or is this unique to WM's case?

http://www.mcscs.jus.gov.on.ca/engl...onersInvestigations/OCC_common_questions.html

Or her body has never been found so there is nothing for them to investigate.

JMO

 

[Carli]

Households of the "elite" are normally headed by alcoholics? Remember, WM and DM didn't become "elite" until they inherited CM's millions in 2009. Before that, DM didn't act like he had money, because the family was likely doing no better than any other single parent middle class household headed by an alcoholic.

I guess you misread my post? You'd accused me of exhibiting a social class bias which I interpreted as my expressing an elitist opinion - a comment which I chose to debate. How do you know WM was an alcoholic? Why is it necessary to portray him as a poor parent? If his parenting skills were severely lacking and causing damage to his son, is there evidence to support that opinion? Do we know if LE was called to the residence to settle domestic disputes between father and son in the past?

 

[Alethea Dice]

Neither is a bullet to the head

But an aneurysm is.

 

[SnooperDuper]

I guess you misread my post? You'd accused me of exhibiting a social class bias which I interpreted as my expressing an elitist opinion - a comment which I chose to debate.

Wrong accuser, you were debating with with sillybilly, not me. Don't Hansel me in your Five-Star oven yet.

How do you know WM was an alcoholic?

It's been reported in the news.

Why is it necessary to portray him as a poor parent? If his parenting skills were severely lacking and causing damage to his son, is there evidence to support that opinion?

Aw shucks well there's that "my son grew up to be a serial killer" aspect we have here. It's the elephant in the room. Homes affected by alcohol aren't "normal" homes; it's just a question of which typical pitfalls affected WM and DM.

Do we know if LE was called to the residence to settle domestic disputes between father and son in the past?

Why is it necessary to portray WM as violent? He could have been quite a peaceful drunk, serving dinner diligently at 11:00 pm and that sort of thing.

 

[swedie]

hmmm... so lets get this straight, the death was ruled as a suicide !

The body was cremated and life went on.

Then several months later, when the son of the man who had committed suicide as was definitely determined by police at the time, gets charged with allegedly killing his dad, and the suicide becomes open to offers as to whether or not it was a suicide. Out of the blue, charges of murder are made against the son, suggesting that the police either were incompetent at the scene of the death or someone is alleging something that is untrue ( which wouldn't be the first time.)

Basically the original determination of suicide that allowed the body to be cremated is now worthless and suspiciously false.

I fail to see how an investigation continued after the death had been deemed a suicide by police. Coroner files can take months to close so IMO the police contacted the coroners office and forced the issue that an investigation was taking place ( mid/late 2013). So it's my opinion that the police had concluded the investigation back in 2012 but instigated a new one (for whatever reason) and contacted the coroners office to keep file as active. JMO

Are coroners suppose to hang on the the body indefinitely? Put it in deep freeze or what? No, once an autopsy is done and all the paper work filled out, typically the coroners office releases the remains to family. That is why TB's remains were released to SB eventually. They had examined it for all the details they could get from it and filled out all the reports. Yes sometimes they can exhume bodies in rare cases but I doubt they missed anything during WM's autopsy.

What investigators didn't get was the truth from the person who murdered him IMO.

It's not like this type of case has never happened before. I had posted about another case recently in the news which happened in Mississauga if you missed it and are interested. MOO.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...a_mystery_what_happened_to_the_harrisons.html

 

[Carli]

Wrong accuser, you were debating with with sillybilly, not me. Don't Hansel me in your Five-Star oven yet.

ROFL and skoosie.

It's been reported in the news.

Reported in the news? Then it must be true. LOL.

Aw shucks well there's that "my son grew up to be a serial killer" aspect we have here. It's the elephant in the room. Homes affected by alcohol aren't "normal" homes; it's just a question of which typical pitfalls affected WM and DM.

Hmm. Well, sticking with the class riff, I guess it all depends on the Nannie. Much more importantly, nobody has the right to declare a person guilty of crimes without proof. Nobody.

Why is it necessary to portray WM as violent? He could have been quite a peaceful drunk, serving dinner diligently at 11:00 pm and that sort of thing.

Well, I wasn't suggesting Papa was violent. Given that son was a 3 x murderer in waiting, I presumed exhibitions of violence might have originated with him. Additionally, of course, we had all those reported raves and druggie parties at the residence and at the hangar. Were the police never called to close down these events or at least put a damper on the festivities? How often were they called? Anyone know? If LE was frequently called but chose to never report these parties, why not?

 

[Carli]

Are coroners suppose to hang on the the body indefinitely? Put it in deep freeze or what? No, once an autopsy is done and all the paper work filled out, typically the coroners office releases the remains to family. That is why TB's remains were released to SB eventually. They had examined it for all the details they could get from it and filled out all the reports. Yes sometimes they can exhume bodies in rare cases but I doubt they missed anything during WM's autopsy.

What investigators didn't get was the truth from the person who murdered him IMO.

It's not like this type of case has never happened before. I had posted about another case recently in the news which happened in Mississauga if you missed it and are interested. MOO.

http://www.thestar.com/news/crime/2...a_mystery_what_happened_to_the_harrisons.html

It is to be profoundly hoped that police and coroners have some more knowledgeable and scientific means to determine whether a sudden death is the result of homicide, suicide or accident than depending upon an assailant to step up and confirm s/he murdered a victim. MOO.

 

[Alethea Dice]

It's been reported in the news.



Aw shucks well there's that "my son grew up to be a serial killer" aspect we have here. It's the elephant in the room. Homes affected by alcohol aren't "normal" homes; it's just a question of which typical pitfalls affected WM and DM.



Why is it necessary to portray WM as violent? He could have been quite a peaceful drunk, serving dinner diligently at 11:00 pm and that sort of thing.

It was reported in the news? Do you have a link please? All I can find is the one article by AB that states that EG's brother said they liked to spend afternoons drinking and that AS had said he heard that WM was drinking again. There is nothing to indicate the extent of the drinking or the size of the "problem". I realize that the article does insinuate a problem drinker, but there are other things that aren't correct in the article so how can anyone be sure. The only thing that came up in a search for me that indicated a larger problem were links to this forum where it seems to have grown considerably from those two small comments in the article.

Sure, homes affected by alcohol aren't necessarily "normal", but not all are totally disfunctional from the alcohol either. There are lots of kids from alcoholic parents who grow up perfectly fine and well adjusted. There are different levels of alcohol abuse, different types of drunks (happy/angry), different home lives, even different preferred hours to partake. And certainly many, many children of alcoholics who do not turn out to be killers.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

Well, I wasn't suggesting Papa was violent. Given that son was a 3 x murderer in waiting, I presumed exhibitions of violence might have originated with him. Additionally, of course, we had all those reported raves and druggie parties at the residence and at the hangar. Were the police never called to close down these events or at least put a damper on the festivities? How often were they called? Anyone know? If LE was frequently called but chose to never report these parties, why not?

I'm curious about this too. Since the neighbours complained about driving down the street too fast, there must have been many calls to LE about all those huge drug-filled parties at the house with all the fighting breaking out.

 

[Carli]

I'm also curious about this police "carding" business. What is it? What's a "208"? I understand these were intrinsic to identifying DM because of some "physical feature." Anybody know what any of this is about?