Tim Bosma: Dellen Millard & Mark Smich chgd w/Murder; Christina Noudga, Accessory #3

[MsSherlock]

Hi Kamille .... I would have a hard time believing they would simply steal the truck and "let Tim go" ... he would be too much of a good witness able to identify them and it would be foolhardy to plan it that way .

I still say the thief-murderers had a reasonably good plan and would have gotten away with it except for the huge publicity that erupted the next day ... they never anticipated that would happen ... typically car thefts and missing adults are not a priority for police or society or news media ... we would likely never even have heard about it until it eventually emerged as a cold-case missing-person months or years later

I also have difficulty with them getting him outside the truck , then kill him , and then put him back inside .... unless he was transferred to the Yukon , which would require wrapping in plastic or similar .... whereas it was reported that the seats were removed from the stolen truck .... must have been a reason for that.

Agreed Arnie. IMHO, HPS was instrumental. They took SB's call seriously and started the search immediately. They immediately launched a social media campaign- found TB's cell phone, sought production orders etc. IMO, DM, being so accustomed to TPS would never have expected such major attention so soon. Perhaps he was thinking HPS would suspect TB simply took off?? MOO

 

[Juballee]

This is a possible scenario, but I don't think they planned to leave the owner alive, and able to press charges for theft. Perhaps something unexpected did happen in the truck cab, and Tim refused to exit, because it seems strange that they would shoot inside of the truck, leading to blood stains, and possible bullet holes in the vehicle. I even wonder about ricochet, and the possibilty of them getting injured.

I keep going back in my mind to the purchase and use of the incinerator on a farm with no animals. IMO they planned on murder from the beginning. They came with a gun, and a plan. Like Sharlene Bosma, I find it almost impossible to comprehend that they were willing to murder someone just for a truck, but perhaps they were using drugs, and having delusions of grandeur, while being way over confidant in their abilities as master criminals. It is quite likely that DM, and maybe MS too, had already gotten away with murder more than once. I wish we still had the death penalty in Ontario, and if they are convicted, I think it should be used for human garbage like these two. I also am not in favour of a light sentence for CN if she is found to be an accomplice. She should spend several years in prison. It is highly probable that both she and MS have made some kind of deal with the Crown, in order to receive lighter sentences. Who knows, the trial may be shorter than we think, if they both testify against DM.

In my opinion if they were so concerned about leaving witnesses alive, they would have gone back and killed the other witness after stealing the truck.

I believe that the purchase of the incinerator was made by an employee of MillardAir, which would lead me to believe that it was intended for use at MillardAir and not bought specifically for the farm.

Personally, I'd like to see what part CN played, if any, before I condemn her to a fate that could ruin her life. I might be fussy, but I'd actually like to see the evidence and hear the testimony before I feel confident in declaring that someone should die. But this is all my opinion only.

 

[matou]

I think Sharlene had police over at her house that night so DM and MS would not have gone back to kill her too. I think they were too busy incinerating Tim's body and moving vehicles around to do that. Police were on the case right away so they would not have been successful anyway. JMO

 

[Kamille]

Interesting responses. I personally do not believe, at this time, that they intended to murder their victim. These were two guys from different areas of the city who were rather non descript IMO. I've already indicated my opinion of how LE respond to vehicle theft, and while they certainly pay more attention to car jacking than personal property theft where there is no one around when a vehicle is stolen, it still would not be high on the priority list, especially if a weapon did not have to be shown.

So if a weapon had to be pulled (which takes the crime to a more serious level) because the owner did not take the situation as serious as it was capable of being right away, then I can certainly envision a life or death struggle in the cab of that vehicle with the person in possession of the weapon coming out victorious in the struggle and the other coming out...well dead. And perhaps as an incentive to get the owner out of the vehicle during a struggle, his cell phone was grabbed from him and thrown out the window. But I think that as soon as the driver was able to shoot, if a gun was in his possession, he did. Because this was now a serious car jacking that LE were not just going to fluff off on a vehicle theft unit.

I don't think, as Ms Sherlock has stated, that either DM or MS expected the investigation to ever be all that intensive had it just been a car jacking with no weapon involved. Witness descriptions would mean little to nothing. LE are sitting on hundreds of cases where they actually have video tape surveillence of suspects and yet no identification or arrests have ever been made. And DM had possibly already gotten away with at least two major crimes dealing with the TPS.

If TB had been told to get out of the truck and he had complied without any hesitation, while a report would have been taken and an investigation launched, it most likely would have been turned over to that BEAR unit or some other such unit investigating car theft rings and neither DM or MS would have been anywhere on their radar. TB would have returned home with a traumatic story to tell and he would have been reimbursed for the truck by his insurance company. But how can anyone gauge what someone's response to such a request would be? I know a lot of men who would have considered the driver just a punk that they could overpower if they were in the same position. And in this country we're just not conditioned to think of guns as being a concealed possibility in a conflict IMO.

While it's entirely possible that LB and WM were intended victims for personal reasons that have been discussed here in the forum, I just don't think a complete stranger with whom neither of them had an issue, was intended to be killed unless necessary. Which would explain why a weapon may have been concealed on the driver's person.

MOO

 

[Sphinx]

In my opinion if they were so concerned about leaving witnesses alive, they would have gone back and killed the other witness after stealing the truck.

I believe that the purchase of the incinerator was made by an employee of MillardAir, which would lead me to believe that it was intended for use at MillardAir and not bought specifically for the farm.

Personally, I'd like to see what part CN played, if any, before I condemn her to a fate that could ruin her life. I might be fussy, but I'd actually like to see the evidence and hear the testimony before I feel confident in declaring that someone should die. But this is all my opinion only.

The incinerator was found on DM's farm, with TB's burned remains inside, and possibly traces of LB's remains. I doubt that it was purchased for use at MillardAir, although DM may have had an employee order it. He made quite a mistake leaving a paper trail, but then, once the remains were found on his property, the evidence was about as serious as it can get.

 

[swedie]

In my opinion if they were so concerned about leaving witnesses alive, they would have gone back and killed the other witness after stealing the truck.

I believe that the purchase of the incinerator was made by an employee of MillardAir, which would lead me to believe that it was intended for use at MillardAir and not bought specifically for the farm.

Personally, I'd like to see what part CN played, if any, before I condemn her to a fate that could ruin her life. I might be fussy, but I'd actually like to see the evidence and hear the testimony before I feel confident in declaring that someone should die. But this is all my opinion only.

That may have been the plan but upon returning more than likely LE vehicles were in the Bosma's laneway? So you're saying they were not concerned about witnesses? The business owner is still alive, he was a witness.

If the incinerator was meant for MA, why was it delivered to the farmland? What do you suggest MA would use an incinerator for?

Helping a murderer escape is a pretty serious offence IMO. She could be sentenced up to 25 years in prison. I can see her being a witness for the Crown with the hope of getting off or a minor sentence. JMO.

The Ontario buyer said he wanted to dispose of dead farm animals.

When the man placed an order for a portable livestock incinerator last summer, he asked all the usual questions about the device’s size and fuel source. Soon after, the unit was shipped for about $15,000.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...rge-in-mysterious-bosma-case/article12757899/

 

[redheart]

So if a weapon had to be pulled (which takes the crime to a more serious level) because the owner did not take the situation as serious as it was capable of being right away, then I can certainly envision a life or death struggle in the cab of that vehicle with the person in possession of the weapon coming out victorious in the struggle and the other coming out...well dead. And perhaps as an incentive to get the owner out of the vehicle during a struggle, his cell phone was grabbed from him and thrown out the window. But I think that as soon as the driver was able to shoot, if a gun was in his possession, he did. Because this was now a serious car jacking that LE were not just going to fluff off on a vehicle theft unit.

RSBM.

The BIB really struck me. The cell phone didn't make sense to me, but this is an excellent explanation. I wonder if we'll ever know many of the details of what really happened. I go back and forth on whether I think they planned murder from the outset, or if they just planned to steal TB's truck.

 

[Kamille]

RSBM.

The BIB really struck me. The cell phone didn't make sense to me, but this is an excellent explanation. I wonder if we'll ever know many of the details of what really happened. I go back and forth on whether I think they planned murder from the outset, or if they just planned to steal TB's truck.

I just don't see a plan that involves killing someone outright for a vehicle, which would draw enormous attention on the perpetrators and prompt a massive manhunt. I guess we'll wait for trial to see how LE were able to piece it together.

MOO

 

[Kamille]

The incinerator was found on DM's farm, with TB's burned remains inside, and possibly traces of LB's remains. I doubt that it was purchased for use at MillardAir, although DM may have had an employee order it. He made quite a mistake leaving a paper trail, but then, once the remains were found on his property, the evidence was about as serious as it can get.

I agree that the incinerator was purchased for nefarious purposes by DM himself. While the seller indicated that the caller represented themselves as an employee of MillardAir, has it ever been determined whom that caller may have been? Pretty sure a guy who is willing to conceal his identity with a burner phone, is also willing to give a bogus name to purchase an incinerator to dispose of a body. But the payment would be a different story, not like he was going to send cash, so funneling it through the business and sending a cheque from there would look more legit I suppose. I mean who is going to question that? And apparently no one did until someone else entirely ended up disposed of in it.

MOO

 

[SnooperDuper]

WM and LB were both vulnerable people because they had substance issues...people were not prepared to call the death and disappearance murder because, who knows, you know?

Nobody followed up on DM's first 2 victims so no doubt he was surprised to have so much attention on victim #3.

IMO perhaps the murder wasn't planned but the lines in the sand were already drawn, i.e., I'll kill if it comes to that: I have the incinerator.

 

[Kamille]

WM and LB were both vulnerable people because they had substance issues...people were not prepared to call the death and disappearance murder because, who knows, you know?

Nobody followed up on DM's first 2 victims so no doubt he was surprised to have so much attention on victim #3.

IMO perhaps the murder wasn't planned but the lines in the sand were already drawn, i.e., I'll kill if it comes to that: I have the incinerator.

Oh absolutely. I don't think they were adverse to killing someone if necessary, as it appears they may have done it before, I just don't think that was the preferred plan going in and I'm sure they believed that the victim would just comply and get out of the vehicle willingly without any weapon needing to be used. But I think there may have been a weapon along for the ride, just in case.

And I dare say that turning to the Etobicoke guy on the test drive the day before and telling him to get out probably looked like a definite struggle would take place, rather than compliance, considering his size. Pretty sure they figured a big guy wasn't going to just get out and say "sure take my truck but just don't beat me up". And the logistics of dealing with a possible large dead victim in the middle of the day didn't appeal to them I'm sure.

MOO

 

[swedie]

The incinerator was found on DM's farm, with TB's burned remains inside, and possibly traces of LB's remains. I doubt that it was purchased for use at MillardAir, although DM may have had an employee order it. He made quite a mistake leaving a paper trail, but then, once the remains were found on his property, the evidence was about as serious as it can get.

BBM- Perhaps DM had searched for an incinerator on Kijiji. If he was so brazen to order and pay for the incinerator through MA, I won't be surprised to find out his computer search history was extensive and ties in in many ways to the three murders he is charged with. MOO.

 

[swedie]

Was DM hoping to find an incinerator on line, pick it up and pay for it in cash to cover his trail? There's no incinerators for sale on Kijiji in the GTA according to my search. Apparently he had no other choice then to buy one from the closest company in Manitoba. Wonder why he didn't meet the delivery person at the farmland and give him cash to cover his trail a bit better? Stupid? He paid for the condo in cash. Oh yeah that had nothing to do with the three murders he's charged with...as far as I know. :thinking: MOO.

 

[swedie]

I agree that the incinerator was purchased for nefarious purposes by DM himself. While the seller indicated that the caller represented themselves as an employee of MillardAir, has it ever been determined whom that caller may have been? Pretty sure a guy who is willing to conceal his identity with a burner phone, is also willing to give a bogus name to purchase an incinerator to dispose of a body. But the payment would be a different story, not like he was going to send cash, so funneling it through the business and sending a cheque from there would look more legit I suppose. I mean who is going to question that? And apparently no one did until someone else entirely ended up disposed of in it.

MOO

Did WM find out DM purchased on MA's account and hit the roof? What excuse did he give WM for purchasing the incinerator? Wonder who all were in charge of day to day accounting at MA and at the time the incinerator was purchased? Will they be a witness to help give evidence? What else did DM buy on MA's account that wasn't used for business purposes?

Being the CEO of MA, DM would have signing rights to write cheques. Who met the incinerator delivery person at the farmland the day it arrived? If it was MS, could have been another way of DM's to drag MS into the picture, making him appear as though he was involved in LB's murder? MOO.

:waiting: To think a year from now will be in the thick of things and getting many answers to our questions and a verdict or two...or three. IMO after the verdict, the guilty will plead guilty on the other charges sparing further trials. I will be content knowing justice has been served for Tim and his loved ones. JMO

 

[Juballee]

Was DM hoping to find an incinerator on line, pick it up and pay for it in cash to cover his trail? There's no incinerators for sale on Kijiji in the GTA according to my search. Apparently he had no other choice then to buy one from the closest company in Manitoba. Wonder why he didn't meet the delivery person at the farmland and give him cash to cover his trail a bit better? Stupid? He paid for the condo in cash. Oh yeah that had nothing to do with the three murders he's charged with...as far as I know. :thinking: MOO.

I forget, perhaps because it seems like we hashed out all the real, MSM provable facts so long ago and yet somehow some people keep posting opinions that are contrary to those provable facts and after reading the same wrong information a few times, it starts to get mixed up in my head. But I cannot remember now where it was said that the incinerator was delivered to, the hanger or the farm.

I think I recall that initially it was reportedly ordered by DM, but then that it was quietly changed to say ordered by an employee of MillardAir in all of the MSM articles. I wonder why they would all make that tiny little wording change unless they had to, perhaps because they were correcting something that was wrong with the first releases?

Either way, I have to say that your post made me laugh out loud, Swedie, so thanks for that. I can just imagine that if anything ever accidentally goes wrong in your life (or the life of one of your friends or family) unexpectedly and LE ever searched your computer history, it would look awfully suspicious that you had looked on kijiji for incinerators. Then they find your old WS post describing the farm in detail, (one of the possible locations of the crimes that LE searched), and the next thing you know, that info you looked up on guns starts to look suspicious and poor Swedie is looked at as being suspect number three
:gaah:

Just joking, Swedie!

 

[SnooperDuper]

I think I recall that initially it was reportedly ordered by DM, but then that it was quietly changed to say ordered by an employee of MillardAir in all of the MSM articles. I wonder why they would all make that tiny little wording change unless they had to, perhaps because they were correcting something that was wrong with the first releases?

(RSBM) Perhaps the first reporter got to someone on the incinerator end that hadn't yet been warned by LE not to comment. Perhaps it's a detail LE does not want out there because it would bias a jury.

The guy who took the incinerator pics shared them with LE, media, online, they were everywhere. LE did not initially have control of that situation, so it's no wonder people associated with the incinerator company were much more cautious later on...perhaps they were advised not to share or confirm certain info by LE.

 

[swedie]

Perhaps because the order was placed over the phone, the distributor could not prove it was DM who purchased it. Surely LE have figured all that out by now as to who actually ordered it, wrote the cheque for it and met the delivery person at the farmland to receive it. I agree SD, it's likely part of the evidence the Crown/LE didn't want to expose before trial in order to give the accused his right to a fair trial. JMO.

Where there any employees working at the new hangar in July 2012? Or was it just DM's romper room at that time?

Information obtained by the Sun indicates Millard purchased the propane-heated incinerator for $6,950 from a Manitoba distributor of the U.S.-made product.

Bill Penner of Tri-Star Dairy in Grunthal, Man. said he did not personally meet with Millard and would not reveal details of the actual purchase or how it was delivered to his farm.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying

The incinerator was delivered to Millard's farm in July 2012.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dai...-millard-livestock-incinerator-135236909.html

Earlier, police found an incinerator on the farm that they say Millard purchased last July.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/unknown-remains-found-on-dellen-millard-s-farm-1.1335720

 

[hopingforjustice]

Perhaps because the order was placed over the phone, the distributor could not prove it was DM who purchased it. Surely LE have figured all that out by now as to who actually ordered it, wrote the cheque for it and met the delivery person at the farmland to receive it. I agree SD, it's likely part of the evidence the Crown/LE didn't want to expose before trial in order to give the accused his right to a fair trial. JMO.

Where there any employees working at the new hangar in July 2012? Or was it just DM's romper room at that time?

Information obtained by the Sun indicates Millard purchased the propane-heated incinerator for $6,950 from a Manitoba distributor of the U.S.-made product.

Bill Penner of Tri-Star Dairy in Grunthal, Man. said he did not personally meet with Millard and would not reveal details of the actual purchase or how it was delivered to his farm.

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/05/16/police-investigate-incinerators-role-in-tim-bosma-slaying

The incinerator was delivered to Millard's farm in July 2012.

https://ca.news.yahoo.com/blogs/dai...-millard-livestock-incinerator-135236909.html

Earlier, police found an incinerator on the farm that they say Millard purchased last July.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/unknown-remains-found-on-dellen-millard-s-farm-1.1335720

JMO but I find it hard to believe that a company would ship something of that value to a first time purchaser without credit app and all the due diligence of a responsible accounting dept. -- and that could take days to achieve. My guess is this purchase would have been done via credit card to implement a speedy delivery. And that transaction would be very easily traced. But JMO IMO MOO

 

[Juballee]

I believe that the purchase has already been traced, to a MillardAir employee, and I doubt that employee paid for the transaction out of his own pocket, it would have been charged to a MillardAir account.

 

[matou]

And wayne millard knew about this purchase of course, and that the item was delivered to his son's farm property? I wonder if other things such as car kits were also charged to millardair?