Timeline Discussion

[human]

I am very curious about her time line on June 4.

She was clocked as playing a video game at 8:01.

How did she get baby, Kyron, drive, park, and get into school all by 8:15 when she was seen by the PTA president?

 

[wondering1]

I am very curious about her time line on June 4.

She was clocked as playing a video game at 8:01.

How did she get baby, Kyron, drive, park, and get into school all by 8:15 when she was seen by the PTA president?

I've always thought that was odd, too. Do you have the PTA pres link handy? Does she say 8:15? I remember her talking, but I don't remember her exact time frame. I also think someone posted that it's super quick to the school from the Horman house -- like 5 minutes. jmoo.

 

[Donjeta]

It would have been at least partly verifiable if she offered baby clean-up details like that. There would have been the smelly diaper in the trash if it wasn't picked up on Friday and the clothes in the laundry although they aren't timestamped, and someone might have noticed a driver dozing in a parked car and even called the cops about it because it might be a DUI case.

 

[BeanE]

For quite awhile now, TH's timeline has bugged me, but I haven't been sure why.

While relaxing before heading to bed, I suddenly realized what it was that's bugging me.

It's *how* the timeline is being view.

It isn't a timeline for a rocket launch that has to be timed to l/100 of a second. Nor is it a timeline for a precise military operation.

It's just a mom running errands that on any other day would be...just running errands.

So I'd like to take a look at it from a simple, human perspective.

It's been a busy time: Kyron's science fair, getting the project set up the day before. Baby K is fussy. Maybe she was last night, too, and maybe TH has been up with her a couple of times. Dunno. Maybe she's a little tired--not uncommon for busy moms.

There's the science fair today, and later TH may be the one driving Kyron for the weekend swap with DY. That's been mentioned.

So far, her timeline re: FM and being at the gym checks out. Not to the second, but it's getting backed up.

Suppose that she's telling the truth about a fussy baby and driving around. And maybe after the chaos and noise of the excited kids at the science fair, the idea of a little peace and quiet sounds like a good idea to her, too, for herself.

So, they're rolling along. Baby K is settling down. Then --ooops. Baby K has a big, big urpsie, as babies will do. Or maybe a big, big, liquid poopy.

Whatever. It's unpleasant, baby K is crying, and it has to be taken care of.

TY finds a safe place to pull over in the country. Whips out the mommy bag. (I'm convinced that in case the planet explodes or something, we could rebuild civillization from what moms carry in those bags!)

She cleans up baby K, gets her settled down. Maybe has to change her shirt or panties, too. Gets the mess corraled into plastic bags--one for trash, including wipes, one for laundry (ooooh yuck).

TH has rolled down the window to get fresh air. Lots of fresh air.

At this point, let's say that the clean-up and soothing baby K has taken 10 minutes. Now Th is sitting back for a bit.

Nice fresh air. She's tired. Her head goes back, and she dozes off for maybe 10 minutes. She and baby K just doze happily in the fresh air.

Another 10 minutes.

It would be very very easy to speculate how 20 minutes of the 90 minutes "driving around" could be accounted for. There's driving around. There's cleaning up. There's soothing. There's dozing off without meaning to.

Does that make sense to anyone else?

The timeline, IMHO, can't be expected to have military precision. And in human terms, I think it's very likely that some time can be accounted for by normal stuff that might not even be talked about. As in "driving around" might include baby urpsie. I doubt she'd timeline 5 minutes to clean up urpsie, 3 minutes to put new top on, etc.

It's all just a normal part of running around with little kids. But it takes p time in that 90 min. span.

My math (never very good) works it out to about an hour driving hour, and I don't need to build in pooping or sleeping for it to be reasonable to me. A shorter driving around time to try to calm a fussy baby would be more reasonable to me, but I can see a mother choosing to drive a little longer, in hope the baby would calm down or fall asleep, rather than go home, especially if she knows at home, the baby's not likely to calm down there. We just don't know what sorts of things usually worked or were known not to work with baby K.

For the overall timeline, from the human perspective you're looking to view it from, it does sound just like a mom out running errands - nothing extraordinary, nothing suspicious. Kaine has said Terri usually was out and running errands, and then usually home when he got there.

 

[MsFacetious]

This is something I have thought about a lot lately. I think the issue is that no matter your motivation for driving around for an hour or more, that would give you plenty of time to dispose of evidence.

I would never say that someone driving around for a few hours is suspicious. I do it on a regular basis. 90% of the time it is just me and the kids.

On Tuesday I left my house at 1pm with a full tank of gas, headed west, took pictures from 2:47pm to 4:07pm off and on. Including getting off the highway and getting lost for a while before finding my way back. Then drove back home. I was not doing anything wrong, but theoretically COULD have been during this time frame.

I was gone from 1pm - 6pm. I got a couple of phone calls and texts while I was gone. My youngest daughter was being a brat, so I did not stop anywhere (besides photo spots) while I was gone. I did stop and offer to tow a guy broken down on the side of the road, but that would be my only hope for an alibi witness.

We regularly go on drives through canyons, up to the cabin, to a reservoir. THAT is not suspicious. I may stop at a gas station (credit card for gas at the pump, cash for a drink inside the store), a park, to tow/pull someone out/assist at an accident, rarely at a fast food place and once in a great while to see a friend or family member. I don't remember going to an actual store in 2010, though I'm sure I have. It's a once a month thing for me, if that.

Odds are slim I would have an alibi on any of my drives...but I would probably be caught on video in a parking lot, somewhere. Maybe have a gas receipt, cell phone pings along with my camera of course.

Here are the things that bother me about that scenario with Terri specifically.

If I had a sick/cranky toddler and knew I was going to be making a 4 hour round trip drive later that day...with or without that toddler. I would take advantage of that few hours to go HOME and rest WITH the baby. Not drive around (I already have to do that for 4 hours later) and let baby rest.

There has been no mention of baby K not sleeping well at home, or of Terri regularly driving around like I do. ALSO, Terri was in the truck. I find it hard to believe that Terri "enjoyed" driving around in a full sized truck instead of her Mustang.

In fact, since she knew she wasn't picking up Kyron's project... why not go trade vehicles with Kaine if she needed to drive baby K around? I do that frequently, not a big deal at all.

I don't know. I'm confusing myself now. :waitasec:

 

[txsvicki]

There's no way on earth that I'd be driving out in the country on a lonely road and doze off with my window rolled down and a baby in the vehicle. There's too many nuts running around. I don't think Terri went to sleep or changed the baby while out riding around because she didn't mention it at all and could have really added to the timeline with something like that.

 

[STEADFAST]

I think LE's skepticism comes not from how long she says she drove around but from where she was during that time. The reports were that her timeline has not checked out due to cell phone pings and bank records.

While Terri Horman has said she was in certain locations, investigators have placed her elsewhere using bank card records and cell phone pings, according to sources. . . .
http://www.kgw.com/news/kyron-horman/Desiree-Young-on-Terri-Moulton-I-know-shes-lying-98075814.html

So, although it may be feasible that a mom could drive her baby around for the amount of time that Terri is unaccounted for or not, I don't think that is the issue that is hanging LE up on clearing her timeline.

 

[txsvicki]

I'm still wondering if there was a gasoline purchase that has to be accounted for. Bank records could show one and Terri has to account for it with lots of driving. The gas may have went into another vehicle and she paid for it. Or, she may have really driven somewhere and used that much gas, but just won't say where it was that she went.

 

[Calliope]

If it helps, I think her timeline in question has been whittled down by 15 minutes to one hour and 15. Somewhere around here today or yesterday IIRC, we figured that out.

Anyway I have always agreed that this is a very likely toddler alibi. And I like this human approach to what I've always said is not a large amount of time given a fussy toddler.

(Doesn't mean I'm not on another thread writing a theory about why, when given this is a perfectly reasonable alibi, LE feels Terri is being evasive about this part of her timeline.)

bbm

I think it was Free that posted the approximate time it would have taken Terri to get to the gym from where she was driving about? 20 minutes, I think it was. So does that whittle her time down to less than an hour?

 

[debs]

bbm

I think it was Free that posted the approximate time it would have taken Terri to get to the gym from where she was driving about? 20 minutes, I think it was. So does that whittle her time down to less than an hour?

Well, let's see......she checked out from the first FM at 9:12. Give a few minutes to hike out to where she parked her truck, get herself and baby K in, drive to the next FM (however far away that is, but give it 15 minutes) and suddenly it's around 9:30. However long she's shopping in the second FM, apparently is there a stop in the Starbucks for coffee?.....for some folks, coffee is a religious experience (ME!) so it could be a lingering time. Then she knows she's going to the gym, but she's too far from home to go all the way back, even if baby K is fussy, so she goes to the truck too see if she can get K to sleep in the truck for a few minutes but "no go" so she heads off to the gym as scheduled.

Coffee and store meandering can be a time suck. I posted in another thread that she technically doesn't say she was driving to get baby K to sleep "for a few minutes." She just says she was doing that in the truck. Maybe she grabbed a novel at the FM.

 

[pufnstuf]

I think LE's skepticism comes not from how long she says she drove around but from where she was during that time. The reports were that her timeline has not checked out due to cell phone pings and bank records.


So, although it may be feasible that a mom could drive her baby around for the amount of time that Terri is unaccounted for or not, I don't think that is the issue that is hanging LE up on clearing her timeline.

Another good snippet from that article:

On Saturday, sources told KGW that investigators believe someone other than Terri Moulton Horman may know what happened to the 7-year-old who disappeared from Skyline Elementary on June 4.

Whomever that source is, he or she is on top of what is going on in the investigation. In that article, there's reference to Dede--almost two weeks before we ever heard her name in the press.

I wonder if it's someone from Desiree's family who's the anonymous source for KGW. Someone who's getting info from investigators...someone who may be involved in LE himself.

 

[Calliope]

I found the post by Free.

Since we now know Terri was at both FMs and the gym, you have to cut 40 minutes off the time she spent driving around.

I didn't vote because I'm on the fence.
It's about 20 mins from around the school and that area down to the gym,
so if she drove on HWY 30 like her one e-mail says, you can deduct 40 minutes (20 mins from FM to Skyline area, 20 mins from Skyline area back to gym -assuming she went over to HWY 30 during her drive)..
<snipped>

But Emma says the 90 minutes has been narrowed to 75.

Now we're down to 35.

 

[LisaB]

Then she knows she's going to the gym, but she's too far from home to go all the way back, even if baby K is fussy, so she goes to the truck too see if she can get K to sleep in the truck for a few minutes but "no go" so she heads off to the gym as scheduled.

I have been wanting to mention that possibility. There are plenty of times I drop my daughter and her friends off at a movie, half an hour from our house. Rather than drive home and back, I decide I'll kill 2 hours running errands, like the fabric store near the theatre or a nearby bookstore. Often I finish everything I wanted to do and realize I still have 40 minutes left. That's definitely not enough time to drive home and back, so I either sit in my car or wait inside the mall on a bench near the theatre.

Also... there is nothing in her timeline about ANY diapers, nor does she mention eating anything or feeding Kiara, who presumably had not eaten since 8am. At 1, she unloads groceries and gets online... again, no mention of (or time allowed for) fixing the baby something to eat (much less herself).

I can go half the day without food, but my daughter, at 18 months, couldn't have managed it. Now that she's a teenager it's even worse *LOL*

 

[Donjeta]

I found the post by Free.

Since we now know Terri was at both FMs and the gym, you have to cut 40 minutes off the time she spent driving around.




But Emma says the 90 minutes has been narrowed to 75.

Now we're down to 35.

I don't see how that changes things significantly. She would have been driving around nevertheless if any of that shaved off time is driving time to/from FM/Gym to wherever she spent the rest of that time driving or doing something else.

Somebody help? What have you all figured out?

 

[Donjeta]

Well, let's see......she checked out from the first FM at 9:12. Give a few minutes to hike out to where she parked her truck, get herself and baby K in, drive to the next FM (however far away that is, but give it 15 minutes) and suddenly it's around 9:30. However long she's shopping in the second FM, apparently is there a stop in the Starbucks for coffee?.....for some folks, coffee is a religious experience (ME!) so it could be a lingering time. Then she knows she's going to the gym, but she's too far from home to go all the way back, even if baby K is fussy, so she goes to the truck too see if she can get K to sleep in the truck for a few minutes but "no go" so she heads off to the gym as scheduled.

Coffee and store meandering can be a time suck. I posted in another thread that she technically doesn't say she was driving to get baby K to sleep "for a few minutes." She just says she was doing that in the truck. Maybe she grabbed a novel at the FM.

Did she attend a class or was there a gym date or some other reason she had to schedule to go to the gym at a fixed hour? If it was just a matter of some "pop in any time you feel like it" exercise I'm not sure why she couldn't have driven home and give the baby a chance to nap in comfort instead of waiting for an hour or more in the truck, or the Starbucks, because it doesn't seem like she had anything special to do after the gym, just some facebooking.

 

[Etilema]

For quite awhile now, TH's timeline has bugged me, but I haven't been sure why.

While relaxing before heading to bed, I suddenly realized what it was that's bugging me.

It's *how* the timeline is being view.

It isn't a timeline for a rocket launch that has to be timed to l/100 of a second. Nor is it a timeline for a precise military operation.

It's just a mom running errands that on any other day would be...just running errands.

So I'd like to take a look at it from a simple, human perspective.

It's been a busy time: Kyron's science fair, getting the project set up the day before. Baby K is fussy. Maybe she was last night, too, and maybe TH has been up with her a couple of times. Dunno. Maybe she's a little tired--not uncommon for busy moms.

There's the science fair today, and later TH may be the one driving Kyron for the weekend swap with DY. That's been mentioned.

So far, her timeline re: FM and being at the gym checks out. Not to the second, but it's getting backed up.

Suppose that she's telling the truth about a fussy baby and driving around. And maybe after the chaos and noise of the excited kids at the science fair, the idea of a little peace and quiet sounds like a good idea to her, too, for herself.

So, they're rolling along. Baby K is settling down. Then --ooops. Baby K has a big, big urpsie, as babies will do. Or maybe a big, big, liquid poopy.

Whatever. It's unpleasant, baby K is crying, and it has to be taken care of.

TY finds a safe place to pull over in the country. Whips out the mommy bag. (I'm convinced that in case the planet explodes or something, we could rebuild civillization from what moms carry in those bags!)

She cleans up baby K, gets her settled down. Maybe has to change her shirt or panties, too. Gets the mess corraled into plastic bags--one for trash, including wipes, one for laundry (ooooh yuck).

TH has rolled down the window to get fresh air. Lots of fresh air.

At this point, let's say that the clean-up and soothing baby K has taken 10 minutes. Now Th is sitting back for a bit.

Nice fresh air. She's tired. Her head goes back, and she dozes off for maybe 10 minutes. She and baby K just doze happily in the fresh air.

Another 10 minutes.

It would be very very easy to speculate how 20 minutes of the 90 minutes "driving around" could be accounted for. There's driving around. There's cleaning up. There's soothing. There's dozing off without meaning to.

Does that make sense to anyone else?

The timeline, IMHO, can't be expected to have military precision. And in human terms, I think it's very likely that some time can be accounted for by normal stuff that might not even be talked about. As in "driving around" might include baby urpsie. I doubt she'd timeline 5 minutes to clean up urpsie, 3 minutes to put new top on, etc.

It's all just a normal part of running around with little kids. But it takes p time in that 90 min. span.

Yes, I totally agree that a mom's morning is not precise, and that TH's timeline is not outrageous. (JMO)

But, WHERE WAS KYRON during all of this?

 

[Emeralgem]

Keep whittling..How about she and DeDe had a come to Jesus moment and they were in church together praying..Why not? JMHOOTS

 

[Kat010]

Yes, I totally agree that a mom's morning is not precise, and that TH's timeline is not outrageous. (JMO)

But, WHERE WAS KYRON during all of this?

Exactly. If TH had him, where was he while she was at the FM? While she was having her Starbucks?

 

[Etilema]

...
Also... there is nothing in her timeline about ANY diapers, nor does she mention eating anything or feeding K***, who presumably had not eaten since 8am. At 1, she unloads groceries and gets online... again, no mention of (or time allowed for) fixing the baby something to eat (much less herself).

I can go half the day without food, but my daughter, at 18 months, couldn't have managed it. Now that she's a teenager it's even worse *LOL*

Two interesting points!

1) Until you mentioned it, it never occurred to me that she didn't mention a word about having lunch or feeding baby K.

It's true that we often feed babies on the go--a bottle here, a packet of food from the diaper bag there--so it might not seem worth mentioning. But did SHE not eat lunch? What, was a Starbuck's enough to give her energy for a workout and rejuvenate her from her unusually busy morning (hauling the kids into school, instead of simply having Kyron ready for the bus)?

That's makes two people who seem to have no mention of lunch in their day, as Dede didn't show up for lunch at her workplace, either.

2) She wouldn't have been able to unload the groceries until she got home around 1pm. It has been questioned before about whether she might have bought anything that needed refrigeration, and maybe that's what it is. But, actually, do we have any indication that she actually bought groceries? In her email, doesn't it say that she went to the FM stores solely in search of medicine for baby K?

JMO

 

[Calliope]

I don't see how that changes things significantly. She would have been driving around nevertheless if any of that shaved off time is driving time to/from FM/Gym to wherever she spent the rest of that time driving or doing something else.

Somebody help? What have you all figured out?

It's an important fact to consider because it significantly shortens the amount of time Terri would have had to do *whatever* to Kyron and dispose of him and any evidence.

IMO, it couldn't have been done in 35 minutes, not so that she's managed to foil LE's attempts to pin this on her and locate Kyron --- or any evidence that he is dead. Even if we start with the full 90 minutes, that only leaves 50 minutes for her to have pulled this off, and I just don't see her doing that in such a short period of time.