TN TN - Dennis Martin, 6, Great Smoky Mountains National Park, 14 June 1969

[Satch]

Are you referring to the car that sped away after Harold Key heard a scream and witnessed a man hiding in the bushes?

I know about the witness hearing a scream. But what is this about a car speeding away? The witness said it sounded like a Bobcat scream. I think Dennis got lost and died of exposure. A child's skull was found years later in Tremont Big Hollow by a Guinsing Hunter, who did not originally report it because he had been in the park illegally, He told the head ranger who went to investigate and found nothing. The investigation check was in the mid 80's.

Because no other children at that time had gone missing in the Smokies. I believe the skull was Dennis' The terrain and landscaping would be too difficult and inconvenient for a kidnapping.

Satch

 

[neesaki]

Are you referring to the car that sped away after Harold Key heard a scream and witnessed a man hiding in the bushes?

Yes

 

[rotter_02]

I know about the witness hearing a scream. But what is this about a car speeding away? The witness said it sounded like a Bobcat scream. I think Dennis got lost and died of exposure. A child's skull was found years later in Tremont Big Hollow by a Guinsing Hunter, who did not originally report it because he had been in the park illegally, He told the head ranger who went to investigate and found nothing. The investigation check was in the mid 80's.

Because no other children at that time had gone missing in the Smokies. I believe the skull was Dennis' The terrain and landscaping would be too difficult and inconvenient for a kidnapping.

Satch

I'll need to sift through my sources to find it again, but one account of Key's story was that he heard the scream with his boys, then saw a man avoiding them. He was hiding in the bushes then, when Harold looked away, he ran off and a car sped away.

Also, from what I could tell, the Ginseng hunter's story was never actually confirmed. Like you said, retired parks ranger Dwight McCarter checked out the lead and found no traces of a skeleton. I guess the skull could've been moved, but to find no traces of anything at all is just strange to me.

I don't know what happened to Dennis, I'm not a probability guy. Animal predation could have easily been the case, especially since, according to Dwight McCarter, that year they released an abnormally skinny bear from a live trap meant to bait small animals.

The terrain was also rough, as you mentioned, and it would be difficult to snatch a kid. I don't know how likely kidnapping would've been, but the fact that the idea of it was never looked into, even after no trace was found in the mountains. I don't know, sometimes I just can't help but think that maybe the case would've turned out differently if the FBI had taken the Martins seriously.

 

[Satch]

I'll need to sift through my sources to find it again, but one account of Key's story was that he heard the scream with his boys, then saw a man avoiding them. He was hiding in the bushes then, when Harold looked away, he ran off and a car sped away.

Also, from what I could tell, the Ginseng hunter's story was never actually confirmed. Like you said, retired parks ranger Dwight McCarter checked out the lead and found no traces of a skeleton. I guess the skull could've been moved, but to find no traces of anything at all is just strange to me.

I don't know what happened to Dennis, I'm not a probability guy. Animal predation could have easily been the case, especially since, according to Dwight McCarter, that year they released an abnormally skinny bear from a live trap meant to bait small animals.

The terrain was also rough, as you mentioned, and it would be difficult to snatch a kid. I don't know how likely kidnapping would've been, but the fact that the idea of it was never looked into, even after no trace was found in the mountains. I don't know, sometimes I just can't help but think that maybe the case would've turned out differently if the FBI had taken the Martins seriously.

My Thoughts on the Search,

Given the thousands of people who searched and the FBI's involvement, I think they took the case very seriously, The problems, according to all the reports, was that they never had a proper protocol or plan to deal with the amount of manpower, volunteers, and people who did not have experience in search and rescue training. Thousands of people were involved in the search. Injuries were common. While people's hearts were certainly in the right place, they didn't have the training or knowledge how to do S & R missions.

National Park Services and other federal agencies learned a great deal from the failures in the Dennis Martin case. Given the better training, resources, and technology ,of today, had Dennis gone missing in modern times. he very likely would have been found, either dead or alive had he not been kidnapped. And even if he had been kidnapped, we would have the much better resources today than in 1969 to make that determination through computers, AI, motion detectors, security cameras. Maybe we would not know for sure had Dennis gone missing today, but most certainly there would be better S and R plans to aid in the search.

Satch

 

[rotter_02]

My Thoughts on the Search,

Given the thousands of people who searched and the FBI's involvement, I think they took the case very seriously, The problems, according to all the reports, was that they never had a proper protocol or plan to deal with the amount of manpower, volunteers, and people who did not have experience in search and rescue training. Thousands of people were involved in the search. Injuries were common. While people's hearts were certainly in the right place, they didn't have the training or knowledge how to do S & R missions.

National Park Services and other federal agencies learned a great deal from the failures in the Dennis Martin case. Given the better training, resources, and technology ,of today, had Dennis gone missing in modern times. he very likely would have been found, either dead or alive had he not been kidnapped. And even if he had been kidnapped, we would have the much better resources today than in 1969 to make that determination through computers, AI, motion detectors, security cameras. Maybe we would not know for sure had Dennis gone missing today, but most certainly there would be better S and R plans to aid in the search.

Satch

I definitely agree that a lot of people did everything they could, and the National Park Service wasn't equipped to handle a search of this magnitude at the time. However, after reading through the FBI vault document, it seemed to me that the FBI blocked the investigation at every turn and refused to get involved over and over.

Many sources painted the FBI as being completely cooperative. However, the FBI wrote internally often about how much William Martin reached out to their office and maintained that they couldn't get involved due to jurisdictional restrictions. They also disparaged the Martins for being interested in investigating predictions made by psychics, during a time period when the U.S. government was actively engaged in experimentation with ESP. It also seems that the Martins were told one thing in person when meeting with the Special Agents assigned to the case and when that information was made public the FBI had Special Agents write out letters saying that the Martins simply misunderstood what they were saying, and again maintained that they couldn't get involved and that there was no FBI investigation taking place.

The case file is honestly a very bizarre read, especially when all other sources claim the FBI were totally cooperative. They cooperated with the National Park Service, but in my opinion, they did not treat the Martin family with respect or dignity while they were involved. It's a long file to get through, and especially frustrating to read with the redacted parts, but it was very illuminating.

 

[neesaki]

Yes

My apologies , I have confused this with another case. Kurt Newton, where the family was camping and he disappeared from Chain of Ponds, Maine.

ME - Kurt Ronald Newton (4) - Chain of Ponds ME, 1975

Missing Since: September 1, 1975 from Chain Of Ponds, Maine Classification: Non-Family Abduction Date Of Birth: June 28, 1971 Age: 4 years old Height and Weight: 3'8, 45 pounds Distinguishing Characteristics: Caucasian male. Blond hair, blue eyes. Clothing/Jewelry Description: A navy blue...

www.websleuths.com

 

[PommyMommy]

OCT 31, 2024

https://www.wate.com/news/lonely-bones/5-missing-persons-cases-remain-unsolved-in-the-great-smoky-mountains-national-park/

Martin’s case is one of the oldest missing persons cases in East Tennessee. On June 14, 1969, the six-year-old Martin disappeared while playing hide-and-seek in Spence Field near the Appalachian Trail. According to his profile on the National Missing and Unidentified Persons System, Martin disappeared behind a bush and was never seen again.

 

[Caring1]

 

[DD Byrd]

Has anyone come across interviews with his older brother or the "older children" as adults rather than at the time?

 

[bloobutterfly]

I turned in a possible John Doe for comparison to Dennis, this week. I had never heard of this case, but happened to notice the likeness. I hope to hear something soon.

 

[Richard]

He has been missing for over 55 years.

 

[bloobutterfly]

He has been missing for over 55 years.

What is your point?

 

[bloobutterfly]

He has been missing for over 55 years.

There's a family waiting for closure.

 

[HmmMysterious]

What is your point?

To remember Dennis and to prove to his family that we won't forget him or give up on what happened.

 

[bloobutterfly]

To remember Dennis and to prove to his family that we won't forget him or give up on what happened.

Dennis Martin's siblings need to upload their DNA to DNAsolves, Gedmatch, FTDNA, and all the other websites in case there is a doe case being processed. Also, if he made it into life, then there could be children looking for their bio family. They need to be on all the sites.

 

[cenazoic]

What is your point?

It’s just a way to bump up a case thread. It’s common on WS, especially for older cases like this one.

 

[bloobutterfly]

It’s just a way to bump up a case thread. It’s common on WS, especially for older cases like this one.

That's a sweet thing to do.

 

[musicaljoke]

Dennis Martin's siblings need to upload their DNA to DNAsolves, Gedmatch, FTDNA, and all the other websites in case there is a doe case being processed. Also, if he made it into life, then there could be children looking for their bio family. They need to be on all the sites.

Are you telling us that the family has not done any of these things already?

 

[bloobutterfly]

Are you telling us that the family has not done any of these things already?

Getting dna to compare to the doe was not readily available. So, if that was true, which I find hard to believe, then how do they ever find out if someone turned in a tip or if he has been found? They need to do the upload themselves, even if it's futile. There is no proof he has not lived a life and/or hasn't had children. They should cover their bases, if able to.

 

[bloobutterfly]

Also, the John Doe DNA wasn't viable. I want to assume this will all be handled, eventually, as was implied. I've never run into this kind of snag when I turn in tips. So, how long would this take? I will be patient.