TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #13

[believe09]

IMHO.. There would have most definitely been signs on the ground of a rock (boulder) that size being moved......JMHO

Absolutely. And there were right? I mean the boulder was gone.

 

[Elley Mae]

So someone did hear something-what did they do after they heard this? Did they call LE? Did they go out and check? By check I mean did they go outside and look? Apparently not.

I wonder, is it the same lady that saw the missing "rock".

 

[hollyblue]

while I was on the live chat during the presser, someone brought up an example that helped me-if you rear end someone in traffic at that speed, their car moves. Now, that is 4k lbs against 3 or 4k lbs. So what is a rock that is at most 10% of the weight of the jeep going to do? And on top of that, the Jeep was in motion at a relatively good clip. IIRC the speed limit there is 30mph-is that correct? So she was relatively close to the speed limit when she hit the rock.

She must have been terrified.

The only difference is the 3 or 4k vehicle being hit also has wheels....not so the rock. ?

 

[redmeli]

Absolutely. And there were right? I mean the boulder was gone.

True, but somehow this report to me just invites more questions. The boulder was gone, but if the homeowners inspected the grassy area after mid-May, surely the drag marks from the boulder would have still been visible. I'm thinking pretty substantial damage from a boulder dragging 23 feet, with a vehicle partially or fully on top of it. If it was shaped like a bear, I can't see it rolling in a smooth way. Maybe I just have a suspicious mind, but the boulder missing would have set off alarms in my head, prompting further inquiry, especially since someone was missing, along with their vehicle. I know, not everyone follows the news, or even wants to get involved, alarms or not. Would be interesting to find other similar accidents, and what kind of physical evidence was left behind.

 

[mayqueen]

I wonder, is it the same lady that saw the missing "rock".

Yes, it is. Her husband noticed the missing rock several weeks later, and at that time she came to the conclusion that the horrible sounds she had heard weeks earlier were from someone stealing the rock.

The witness statement is a must-read IMO, I will try to transcribe it or post just that page here for anyone who wants to see it.

 

[Monkey41]

Absolutely. And there were right? I mean the boulder was gone.

I don't ever recall reading/hearing any sort of "evidence" of the boulder leaving any sort of marks AT ALL. In fact, I believe it was this same homeowner who noticed the boulder was missing (and their landscape company also noticed it also) and they chalked it up to "vandals" stealing their boulder.

 

[Jade]

I keep seeing posts that say there was no evidence in the grassy area.

I believe that the PC said there was no evidence in the roadway?

News video from the day surrounding the discovery of the Jeep showed the damage in the grassy area still visible after all those months.

The man who owns the grassy area concluded that the rock was pushed over the edge by, he thought, vandals. He did look over the edge but couldn’t see anything.

The rocks seem to be sitting on not imbedded in the soil.

The site appears to have a thin covering of soil and grass over solid rock on a downward slope.

No chore for a Jeep especially to push off the mountain.

Seems to me that the impact from the hit on the first bluff could have caused the gear changes…


all imo

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Page 54 from the witness report..

Witness states...
I cannot be completely sure of the exact date or the time of day (but to the best of my recollection it was on the weekend of April 30-May 1st) last spring when I heard a horrific sound outside my home. I know it was just days before my husband and I left for Roswell GA to visit our grandchildren on May 5-8th. I was in the master bedroom located in the back of my home when I heard a sound like cra...shing of metal, the extended sound of screeching tires, and then a rumbling sound and a loud bang. Concurrent with those sounds I also heard the sound of a car pulling into our drive then backing out and driving away. My husband was asleep and I awakened him, however he hadn’t heard anything. I walked into our living room to look out our front window to see if an accident had occurred in front of our house. This was an extraordinarily loud noise and one we do not usually hear yet everything looked in order and there was nothing to be seen.

I can't pull up the report, so can someone tell us if this person checked around outside in the light of day for signs of what she'd heard? Like ruts in grass, missing rocks, etc.?

 

[my_tee_mouse]

while I was on the live chat during the presser, someone brought up an example that helped me-if you rear end someone in traffic at that speed, their car moves. Now, that is 4k lbs against 3 or 4k lbs. So what is a rock that is at most 10% of the weight of the jeep going to do? And on top of that, the Jeep was in motion at a relatively good clip. IIRC the speed limit there is 30mph-is that correct? So she was relatively close to the speed limit when she hit the rock.

She must have been terrified.

Thing is, if you hit someone in traffic, you are hitting a device designed to move. Part of my problem with the rock, Jeep, speed is that rocks are not designed to move. They should resist movement, right? And while I can see it being possible for the Jeep to move the rock at that speed....maybe.....the rock's not just going to slide along...so why no ruts?

 

[my_tee_mouse]

I keep seeing posts that say there was no evidence in the grassy area.

I believe that the PC said there was no evidence in the roadway?

News video from the day surrounding the discovery of the Jeep showed the damage in the grassy area still visible after all those months.

The man who owns the grassy area concluded that the rock was pushed over the edge by, he thought, vandals. He did look over the edge but couldn’t see anything.

The rocks seem to be sitting on not imbedded in the soil.

The site appears to have a thin covering of soil and grass over solid rock on a downward slope.

No chore for a Jeep especially to push off the mountain.

Seems to me that the impact from the hit on the first bluff could have caused the gear changes…


all imo

BBM
That would make a bit more sense...thin soil and grass over solid rock.

 

[Oriah]

Doubtful that any vehicle would be capable of doing this on its own. I think this indicates that she tried to take evasive action to stop the car. It might have worked if the boulder had not been up under the left front wheel. Trying to visualize all this. Seems possible the momentum of the boulder might have actually dragged the vehicle over the edge. Again, IMO.

My confusion still lays with the trajectory. I can see the above scenario occurring- a sharp jerk left, overcompensation to the right, catching the boulder under the wheel, and the added weight of the boulder contributing to the momentum. But at the rate of speed and with the primary damage to the rear of the vehicle (front weight in the above scenario being the engine and possibly the boulder) and the degree of the bluff- followed by a contact point farther down but eventually rolling...Idk. I am still trying to make this work in my head. I also think that if the Jeep caught the boulder as described, it would have come to rest farther S from the initial accident point on E. Brow- because if it flipped and then rolled- wouldn't that put the jeep farther SE and the boulder either NW or due S of the final location?
I need to go back and look at this again because I am just rambling now

Whatever the reason and however the physics work...my heart breaks for those kids. I hope the scene investigation/explanation was helpful for them.

And everyone- please wear your seatbelts? Don't even turn the key in your vehicle before you're buckled.

 

[hollyblue]

I guess my question is why if they had GPS info from Gail's phone, and knew the area was full of high bluffs.....why didn't anyone in LE...especially the PI who was hired "to find Gail" search this area? Never, except for Oriah, was this area mentioned. How long would have taken him to check out all of the possible areas on one side of E Brow Rd?

IDK, just seems logical to me that one of the first questions I would ask when a vehicle is missing off a mountain is: What roads are the most treacherous to exit the mountain? East Brow was definitely one of those roads....by the testimony of some locals and the W Rd was closed that day....so it could be elimated.

A mystery I will never understand. The most obvious....and with possible witnesses was never investigated. ???

 

[mayqueen]

WITNESS STATEMENT made by Mary E. (lives across the street from crash site)

"I cannot be completely sure of the exact date or the time of day (but to the best of my recollection it was on the weekend of April 30th – May 1st) last spring when I heard a horrific sound outside my home. I know it was just days before my husband and I left for Roswell, GA to visit our grandchildren on May 5 – 8th. I was in the master bedroom located in the back of my home when I heard a sound like crashing of metal, the extended sound of screeching tires, and then a rumbling sound and a loud bang. Concurrent with those sounds I also heard the sound of a car pulling into our drive then backing out and driving away. My husband was asleep and I awakened him however, he hadn’t heard anything. I walked into our living room to look out our front window to see if an accident had occurred in front of our house. This was an extraordinarily loud noise and one we do not usually hear yet everything looked in order and there was nothing to be seen.

After returning home from Roswell we had a busy week that included a trip to Nashville at midweek. It was not until the following week after our trip to Nashville that my husband was looking out the window to the brow and noticed that one of the rocks (resembling the profile of a bear) on the landing was missing. My first inclination when he said that was “I’ll bet those noises I heard several weeks ago were some vandals taking one of our rocks!” We think when my husband noticed this it was on a Thursday May 19 because that afternoon our lawn service (Dawson Lawn Service) came to cut our lawn and my husband went out to the landing where they were working to ask if they noticed when the rock had gone. At that time the lawn worker pointed out to him where there were tire tracks that stopped a few feet from the edge of the brow and made the comment that whoever hit the rock and pushed it off was lucky because it looked like they stopped just in time. We also didn’t see any indication that the shrubs just near the edge of the brow had been disturbed. No one came by our house inquiring about any accident that might have happened. We thought no more about it because there have been several occasions where we have observed high chassis pick-up trucks on our landing and leaving tire marks in the grass.

My neighbor Charles H. called me Tuesday morning (Dec. 1, 2011) and asked if I knew that people were on my landing investigating the disappearance of Gail Palmgren the lady who was missing. Then the sound I had heard earlier in the year and the missing rock began to make sense and I informed the detectives of what I knew."

transcribed by mayqueen

 

[bluenoser]

Wouldn't a person driving that slow have time to realize where they were headed, and stop the motion--especially if they were slamming into a 472 lb boulder ? That is, if it were just an accident.

I know! And 5 seconds seems like a long time to be in a situation and not notice (at that speed)!

 

[hollyblue]

I could understand her not having the time needed to stop if one of the wheels would have gone over the rock and the brakes were applied. ie: The braking wouldn't have applied because the wheel was in the air (less friction); but, the rock was carried over by the vehicle? Did it jam in the wheel well? I googled...and the clearance of a Rubicon is 10.2 inches. It's braking capabilites did not gather a good rating, fwiw.
http://www.edmunds.com/jeep/wrangler/2010/

 

[Snowbunny]

Wasn't it said that the ground was still pretty wet from all the rain they had gotten down there prior to Gail going missing? If so that rock could have just slid right over those wet blades of grass and so could have those wheels from the jeep without leaving any marks. I use to live in the Knoxville area and I know how much rain they get during that time of the year and if you're walking on wet grass you know it can be slick. I know because I have fallen on my keester a few times in my backyard when the ground was soaked.

 

[redmeli]

I guess my question is why if they had GPS info from Gail's phone, and knew the area was full of high bluffs.....why didn't anyone in LE...especially the PI who was hired "to find Gail" search this area? Never, except for Oriah, was this area mentioned. How long would have taken him to check out all of the possible areas on one side of E Brow Rd?

IDK, just seems logical to me that one of the first questions I would ask when a vehicle is missing off a mountain is: What roads are the most treacherous to exit the mountain? East Brow was definitely one of those roads....by the testimony of some locals and the W Rd was closed that day....so it could be elimated.

A mystery I will never understand. The most obvious....and with possible witnesses was never investigated. ???

Exactly. The pings go from the higher tower to the lower tower below the bluff within minutes. When were pings checked? Seems obvious, in hindsight, what happened. Indicates poor investigative skills, or disincentive to investigate where the last pings occurred.

 

[hollyblue]

Exactly. The pings go from the higher tower to the lower tower below the bluff within minutes. When were pings checked? Seems obvious, in hindsight, what happened. Indicates poor investigative skills, or disincentive to investigate where the last pings occurred.

Yep....and MP wanted the best in the area. Someone who knew those mountains!! Epic Fail!

 

[Shelby1]

I'm on page 7 of the crash report.

The Eppersons advised they had noticed the missing rock around the time Driver # 1 was reported missing. Dr. Epperson advised he had
noted tire marks on the grassy area at. about this time.


There is no record of a report being filed with the Hamilton County
Sheriff, s Office on the missing rock, or tire marks, alleged to have
been seen by Dr. and Mrs. Epperson, about the time of the crash10. A
review of TIBRS reports found no other property damage reports at this
location from O1-01-07 to 05-10-2011.

-------------------------------------

I'm still confused as to why the Eppersons wouldn't have called this in to LE?!

 

[redmeli]

I'm on page 7 of the crash report.

The Eppersons advised they had noticed the missing rock around the time Driver # 1 was reported missing. Dr. Epperson advised he had
noted tire marks on the grassy area at. about this time.

I'm still confused as to why the Eppersons wouldn't have called this in to LE?!

Me, too. But, I think Mrs. E said they were preparing to go out of town, and she/they were preoccupied with the trip.