TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #13

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  • #741
They may call it a "slope," but I think just beyond the hedges it basically goes straight down. That's the face of the mountain, the same one that the W-Road goes down. It's rocky and bumpy but it's not flat anywhere, probably not even where the jeep and body landed because the slope continues down to the W. That's why the Body Farm people had to climb up there with ropes.

Here's a good view of how steep it is - not a 90-degree angle, but close enough. Notice how the trees are growing at an angle towards the sun away from the slope. It's precipitous.

120411_WEB_a_EastBrow_t618.jpg


Thanks TF, but I was referring to the grassy area with the landscape timber and the rocks....before the actual drop off. Do you know how far it is in ft/yds from the road to hedges? Guesstament? TIA
 
  • #742
Contradicting himself, he also says he let them read everything in the newspapers and even the court filings, and that he let them decide everything they were going to say to the press. Really? The kids were the reason he let his lawyer called their mother "F----- up" in the Chattanoogan? Um, I don't think so.
*snipped*
Does anyone have a link to this statement made by the lawyer? I googled and I got nothing. I think my google is broken. :blushing:
 
  • #743
It is very wrong to say that Matt is not a victim. The news conference yesterday was held to let the HCSO announce that they, the SMPD, the TBI and the FBI all working together had determined that this was an accident, and that Matt was not involved. SO, he has been a victim for the past eight months of horrible accusations, rumors, threats, people trying to sneak around to get to his children, etc. I repeatedly hear about his affair and how awful he was to Gail, but I have never seen any official information supporting any abuse. This man may not have done what some people thought he should have, but I don't think there is a manual to follow in this situation.

As for his contribution...well we all know he had an affair, but that only makes him a cheater, not a murderer. Also, I know it's taboo to even think it, but we have no idea what Gail's part in the failing marriage was. Verbal abuse as well as physical abuse can and often do happen to men also. We just don't know what he could have been the victim of. Not saying he was, but we don't know.

So it is incorrect to say he's not a victim. He may not be THE victim, the one who is no longer with us, but yes, he is most certainly a victim of cruel and judgmental behavior by many.

Confused, I never called MP a murder nor did I imply that. I stated that he has not shown any concern or emotion for Gail going missing or her tradgic death. He smiled a lot during the interview and crying only when he spoke of himself losing his job and having to tell his children that he lost his job, which was his own fault. There were no tears shed for Gail. He stated that he wanted to keep things private but yet he and his attorney from the very beginning tried to make Gail out as a crazy person to the media. If MP wants compassion then he ought to start showing compassion. Can you imagine what people think seeing him smiling during an interview when he is discussing the tradgic death of his beloved wife and the mother of his children? That's not something to smile about and makes him look like a self-centered cold fish. He would have been better off not giving that interview. JMO
 
  • #744
I am still trying to absorb the accident report. The technical nature of the report makes it difficult to intuitively understand what happened during the accident. I had flashbacks to high school and arguing with my mom about when I would ever need advanced math skills. That said, I did some reading yesterday at a physics forum and it was very eye opening, not to mention painful.

One of the things that clicked for me was that if GP's Jeep was being pushed and the brakes were applied, which the accident report states that they were, then the Jeep would have completely spun causing the other vehicle to hit the Jeep in the side. The pressure on the back end of the Jeep as it was yawing would have forced the rear end around. I don't know if anyone here is a NASCAR fan, but this type of accident is common on a race track where two cars are drafting (one car is pushing the other around the track). It is nearly impossible for an untrained driver to line up on another car while in motion and push it without leaving significant evidence and damage to both vehicles. Gail was definitely not trained and would've reacted in a way that caused a two vehicle accident.

I think that the other issue here is distance traveled. Given the relatively short distance that the Jeep traveled while it was out of control it would've been impossible for another vehicle to push Gail's over the edge. The second vehicle would've needed to apply pressure that was greater than the weight of Gail's Jeep in order to push it. That kind of force would've dragged the other vehicle over with the Jeep. Also, the math that went into figuring out the accident would've showed anomalies because the force exerted by Gail's jeep and how the systems responded would've had values that didn't add up due to the extra force applied by a second vehicle.

None of this means that a second vehicle couldn't have startled Gail or swerved at her causing the initial loss of control. In that case, the second vehicle would be the same as an animal darting out in front of her. It becomes something that Gail reacted to that caused her to lose control of the Jeep.

The above is just my opinion and I am certainly not a mathematician or an expert, but my reading yesterday did result in an understanding of the math involved in accident reconstruction. There is very little room for ambiguity. One of the problems with providing a model of this accident is the way that the jeep fell. The values for weight impact of a falling Jeep are needed to complete the reconstruction and those are not available at this time according to the report.

If anyone has input into the technical aspects of the accident report, I would love to hear their thoughts.
 
  • #745
The reason they didn't inquire was probably because LE wouldn't have expected Gail to be on that road. Why John Madewell didn't ask questions about that is truly a lost opportunity. Did she have a friend on that road? Did the kids have a friend? Was she cutting through to another street? What was she doing there?

I would have asked MP why he thought Gail was up there - even he explained it by calling her crazy again, at least he would be on the record about it.

Is there a pull off or a lookout on that road in the direction that Gail was traveling?

I wondered this because in the interview MP said that the kids told him that Gail was going to make some phone calls. Early on, we had confirmation that Gail spoke to her sister after leaving the house. I had wondered if she was going to a quiet spot to make other calls.
 
  • #746
Yes...so could a person or persons shove a Jeep from the road, through that grass, over at 24 mph (or less)?

I am not sure if you mean to ask whether or not a person(s) could push the Jeep without another vehicle. If that is what you are asking, then the answer would be no, in my opinion. If you were going to put the Jeep in neutral and push it by hand, there is no way that you could get enough momentum for the Jeep to clear the landscape timbers and the rock. There was damage noted to the undercarriage of the jeep that was attributed to the rock, so we know that she definitely hit the rock. Also, the Jeep was traveling up hill while on the road, so you would need to exert more force than if you were pushing it on a flat surface or downhill.

If you are asking about pushing it with another vehicle, then the answer is still no. In my opinion, the other vehicle wouldn't have been able to stop either. Both vehicles would've gone over the edge because the second vehicle would've needed a higher engine output to propel itself and the Jeep forward. So, that second vehicle would've been moving forward at the same speed and using greater force because it was pushing the Jeep.

This is just my opinion based on the accident report, but if someone caused Gail's accident, they did it before she lost control of the Jeep, not after or during the time that the black box recorded the Jeep as being out of control. I think that it is very possible that another vehicle swerving at Gail or crowding into her space could've caused her to over react and lose control of the Jeep.
 
  • #747
*snipped*
Does anyone have a link to this statement made by the lawyer? I googled and I got nothing. I think my google is broken. :blushing:

Here you go Poppy.

from chattanoogan.com, posted June 18, 2011
Attorney Says Palmgren Property Has Been Available For Search From The Start
Says Gail Palmgren Had "Psychotic Episode" Week Before She Disappeared

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203652.asp
 
  • #748
ThoughtFox,

Thank you for transcribing that whole stammering debacle. It's permanent now and can't be lost. The interview was hard to follow on the video, and now it can be viewed and broken down and contemplated.
I noticed a few things..but the first was his shortness of breath. Maybe it was just his nervousness, but I'd be checked out if I was him. Second, I'm wondering who's idea it was to go public.....his or his attorney's...or family? JMO, but any future employers will now have a mini interview autonomously available....and by my own misconceptions of his intellect I don't think it will be a +. Now I can see why he had others always doing his talking for him or taking care of things.

Something was off....because beyond trying to squash emotions of resentment his telling his story was too broken up and too thought out. Maybe he had moved on mentally from GP prior to her missing, but the person who he once cherished, loved and was the mother of his children is now gone forever. I didn't see any sadness for that....even for his children....even after 8 mos to contemplate. He detaches easily....I'd rather be delusional.

IMO, JMO, etc.

This bothered me as well - I could only watch a few minutes of the video - I felt like I was going to hyperventilate just from watching his heavy, labored breathing.....I wouldn't be surprised if he needs blood pressure meds.
 
  • #749
This bothered me as well - I could only watch a few minutes of the video - I felt like I was going to hyperventilate just from watching his heavy, labored breathing.....I wouldn't be surprised if he needs blood pressure meds.

I suspect the many contradictions on his part would most definitely serve as a catalyst for a rise in blood pressure...JMHO
 
  • #750
I find it interesting, to say the least, that there was a maintenace crew of some sort up there on the day GP went missing. I wonder how many people there were, what exactly they were doing, and what equipment they had with them. When I worked construction, some of that equipment could do amazing things.

So many questions.
 
  • #751
I am still trying to absorb the accident report. The technical nature of the report makes it difficult to intuitively understand what happened during the accident. I had flashbacks to high school and arguing with my mom about when I would ever need advanced math skills. That said, I did some reading yesterday at a physics forum and it was very eye opening, not to mention painful.

One of the things that clicked for me was that if GP's Jeep was being pushed and the brakes were applied, which the accident report states that they were, then the Jeep would have completely spun causing the other vehicle to hit the Jeep in the side. The pressure on the back end of the Jeep as it was yawing would have forced the rear end around. I don't know if anyone here is a NASCAR fan, but this type of accident is common on a race track where two cars are drafting (one car is pushing the other around the track). It is nearly impossible for an untrained driver to line up on another car while in motion and push it without leaving significant evidence and damage to both vehicles. Gail was definitely not trained and would've reacted in a way that caused a two vehicle accident.

I think that the other issue here is distance traveled. Given the relatively short distance that the Jeep traveled while it was out of control it would've been impossible for another vehicle to push Gail's over the edge. The second vehicle would've needed to apply pressure that was greater than the weight of Gail's Jeep in order to push it. That kind of force would've dragged the other vehicle over with the Jeep. Also, the math that went into figuring out the accident would've showed anomalies because the force exerted by Gail's jeep and how the systems responded would've had values that didn't add up due to the extra force applied by a second vehicle.

None of this means that a second vehicle couldn't have startled Gail or swerved at her causing the initial loss of control. In that case, the second vehicle would be the same as an animal darting out in front of her. It becomes something that Gail reacted to that caused her to lose control of the Jeep.

The above is just my opinion and I am certainly not a mathematician or an expert, but my reading yesterday did result in an understanding of the math involved in accident reconstruction. There is very little room for ambiguity. One of the problems with providing a model of this accident is the way that the jeep fell. The values for weight impact of a falling Jeep are needed to complete the reconstruction and those are not available at this time according to the report.

If anyone has input into the technical aspects of the accident report, I would love to hear their thoughts.

Wouldn't the size and weight of other vehicle, if involved, have to be considered as well as the skill of the driver? If bumped correctly by a much larger and heavy vehicle would it take that much to have bumped her over the berm and the rest just took place by momentum? With the damage to the rear would they still be able to tell if she was bumped? Just curious..?
 
  • #752
I find it interesting, to say the least, that there was a maintenace crew of some sort up there on the day GP went missing. I wonder how many people there were, what exactly they were doing, and what equipment they had with them. When I worked construction, some of that equipment could do amazing things.

So many questions.

Where did you read about a maintenance crew that day?
 
  • #753
Where did you read about a maintenance crew that day?

I mentioned a maintenance crew could have been working in the area due to the fact the "W" Road was closed that day... Usually when the road is closed it is due to ice, snow, wrecks or maintenance... Since it was a beautiful day I suspect there was a crew doing maintenance...Lines could have been down due to fallen trees from the all the storms we had on the 27th of April..JMHO

Let me add... There were maintenance crews, tree cutters, insurance adjusters all over Chattanooga and the surrounding area for a month after those storms went through..Over 100,000 people did not have any power.JMHO
 
  • #754
The rock that was taken over the edge with the jeep is the one in between the arrows.

gailbrow-2.jpg

Bumpity-here is the resized picture. Thanks Elley!
 
  • #755
  • #756
I was reading the report last night, and I don't understand the fact that her car was in Drive, Neutral, then Park. But I thought they said the Jeep was moving at 24 mph? Does anyone understand this? How can the car be moving but be in park unless it is stopped?

Page 41:

The gearshift positlon was recorded as "Drive" until 0.3 seconds
before the MRE, then a "Neutral" position was recorded at 0.2 before
the MRE when a "park" position was noted at 0.1 before the MRE.


Also, here is the Cell Tower information everyone wanted to see, which LE probably should have released months ago, as they do in other investigations.

Page 21

Mr. Melson found that the ce1l phone data indicates the following
locations of the phone on Saturday, 04-30-11:

Mr. Mike Me1son, of Trinity Search and Recovery23, perforrned a study of
the locatj_ons of a phone belonging t.o Driver # 1. The phone number of
this phone was (🤬🤬🤬) 🤬🤬🤬-XXXX

Mr. Melson used cell tower/phone data to map probable locations of the
phone2a.

This phone was recovered near the final- resL location of Vehicle # 1
and it belonged t.o Driver # L.

Mr. Melson found that the ce1l phone data indicates the following
locations of the phone on Saturday, 04-30-11:

1202 Hours: At or near 40 Ridgerock Drive, Signal Mountain, TN

1215 Hours: Near the vicinity of Taft Highway and Ault Road/Hampton Road, Signal Mountain, TN

1226 Hours: Either on Hampton Road; Near Hampton and East Brow Road intersection; or on the East Brow Road in the vicinity of Hampton Road, definitely still on top of the bluffs near Signal Mountain, TN

1238 Hours: Below the edge of the Cliff and pinging the Tower below near Signal Mountain, TN
 
  • #757
Oh yes. I can't remember if it was from MSM or in the report. Go back a few pages earlier today or last night.

ETA: Here it is...It was a bit further back than I thought....and it was a statement from the Sheriff during the PC on the 4th.

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Found Deceased TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #13

***Still can't help but ask why the PC was never video taped. It's not like the MSM didn't have enough time to prepare. IMO

Thanks for digging that up for me! I'm still flabbergasted. I hope the family crushes the rock into teeny tiny pieces.

No. Scratch that. I hope they stick it in a shed to be used later when someone reopens the investigation into this case, because two plus two does not equal five (but that seems to be the conclusion in this case as of now).
 
  • #758
Thanks for digging that up for me! I'm still flabbergasted. I hope the family crushes the rock into teeny tiny pieces.

No. Scratch that. I hope they stick it in a shed to be used later when someone reopens the investigation into this case, because two plus two does not equal five (but that seems to be the conclusion in this case as of now).

I agree ~ I hope they keep that rock! :twocents:
 
  • #759
While I haven’t had a chance to read the entire investigation report yet; from reading WS posts, watching the investigators’ PC and reading a few MSM articles, I think one of, if not the most important piece of evidence, to date, is the witness report from Mrs. E.

Mrs. E. heard a horrific crash that she was able to describe in detail, and shortly afterward, heard a vehicle pull into her driveway and back-out in ‘presumably’ the opposite direction it had been originally headed. (IMHO, it would be reasonable to conclude a vehicle was turning around if it pulled into a driveway and backed-out.)

Mrs. E. may have had a window open in her bedroom which would enable her to hear the crash better than Mr. E. who was reportedly sleeping in another part of the home that may not have had open windows.

IMHO, Mrs. E. sounds like a credible witness. Upthread, IIRC, it was reported by at least one local that Mrs. E. is a doctor. And by someone who reportedly knows Mrs. E. personally that she is a “sharp” woman.

Further, LE Investigators acknowledged that the initiating factor in Gail’s Jeep going off the bluff was erased by the data recorder.

This leads me to believe there was, in fact, another vehicle involved in what caused Gail and her Jeep to go over the side of the SM bluff.

Who knows, the other driver may have been a young person speeding who swerved, clipped or rammed Gail’s jeep. The other driver could have been listening to loud music and not paying attention to their surroundings or talking/texting on their phone. Or the other driver could have had an outstanding warrant or been driving without a license, etc. I can imagine a young person panicking and running. (For that matter, it could have been someone of any age that panicked and ran.)

The other driver could have had nefarious intentions, as well. It could have been someone Gail knew who intentionally swerved their vehicle toward her or even deliberately clipped or rammed her Jeep or it could have been someone hired to do the same. And there is the possibility that a sharp-shooter with a scope (allowing them to be some distance from the crash site) and silencer shot a tire causing a blow-out and out-of-control Jeep or even shot Gail herself. (IIRC, the driver side window was shattered….obviously, that could have occurred during the Jeep’s uncontrolled decent down the mountain, too.)

Hmmmm….why was Gail’s seat belt retracted. Could she had stopped along the side of the road to answer or make a call and felt more comfortable with the belt off or needed to reach something in the back of the jeep? Anything is Possible!

All, IMHO.
 
  • #760
While I haven’t had a chance to read the entire investigation report yet; from reading WS posts, watching the investigators’ PC and reading a few MSM articles, I think one of, if not the most important piece of evidence, to date, is the witness report from Mrs. E.

Mrs. E. heard a horrific crash that she was able to describe in detail, and shortly afterward, heard a vehicle pull into her driveway and back-out in ‘presumably’ the opposite direction it had been originally headed. (IMHO, it would be reasonable to conclude a vehicle was turning around if it pulled into a driveway and backed-out.)

Mrs. E. may have had a window open in her bedroom which would enable her to hear the crash better than Mr. E. who was reportedly sleeping in another part of the home that may not have had open windows.

IMHO, Mrs. E. sounds like a credible witness. Upthread, IIRC, it was reported by at least one local that Mrs. E. is a doctor. And by someone who reportedly knows Mrs. E. personally that she is a “sharp” woman.

Further, LE Investigators acknowledged that the initiating factor in Gail’s Jeep going off the bluff was erased by the data recorder.

This leads me to believe there was, in fact, another vehicle involved in what caused Gail and her Jeep to go over the side of the SM bluff.

Who knows, the other driver may have been a young person speeding who swerved, clipped or rammed Gail’s jeep. The other driver could have been listening to loud music and not paying attention to their surroundings or talking/texting on their phone. Or the other driver could have had an outstanding warrant or been driving without a license, etc. I can imagine a young person panicking and running. (For that matter, it could have been someone of any age that panicked and ran.)

The other driver could have had nefarious intentions, as well. It could have been someone Gail knew who intentionally swerved their vehicle toward her or even deliberately clipped or rammed her Jeep or it could have been someone hired to do the same. And there is the possibility that a sharp-shooter with a scope (allowing them to be some distance from the crash site) and silencer shot a tire causing a blow-out and out-of-control Jeep or even shot Gail herself. (IIRC, the driver side window was shattered….obviously, that could have occurred during the Jeep’s uncontrolled decent down the mountain, too.)

Hmmmm….why was Gail’s seat belt retracted. Could she had stopped along the side of the road to answer or make a call and felt more comfortable with the belt off or needed to reach something in the back of the jeep? Anything is Possible!

All, IMHO.

Still... so so many questions...

BBM..I'm not quite understanding the data recorder being erased.. Who erased it or is that a stooopid question on my part?
Also.. IF a tire was blown out due to someone shooting at it wouldn't there be evidence of this having occurred? Same applies to Gail possibly being shot...JMHO
 
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