TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[Oriah]

Ok. OT is Off Topic. I get that one.

What does ETA stand for? It's driving me nuts, and google has failed me. Estimated Time of Arrival doesn't work!

As for damage, I would say I feel like I won the lottery, but my belief is that luck had nothing to do with it and that it was "a God thing." I was completely spared in each instance. But why "them" and not me? Someday I'll be asking that....

I'm glad to hear that, Pearl- thank goodness you were spared. There sure seems to be no rhyme or reason as to why some people suffer and others do not in life. I guess maybe we'll find out one day.

ETA is 'Edited To Add'.

(Although in this case, estimated time of arrival would be nice to know about finding Gail!)

 

[Emeralgem]

I have somewhat of a random question for anyone local to the area. Prior to the storms and tornados that hit the area, were there severe weather warnings made public on tv? The pattern of the storm system was obvious, and I think most people were aware of the direction it was heading (east from the midwest) but I am wondering if tickers were running on tv stations with severe weather warnings. TIA for anyone local who can recall this.

Yes, tickers were running but I lost power after the first cell came through as did many other residents in the area.. IIRC.We had four cells come through that day and by the end of the day not too many people had power..My sister-n-law and brother-n-law never lost power and they live on Signal..

 

[Emeralgem]

Anyone know IF MP drove a company car before he was put on leave and terminated?

 

[Oriah]

Yes, tickers were running but I lost power after the first cell came through as did many other residents in the area.. IIRC.We had four cells come through that day and by the end of the day not too many people had power..My sister-n-law and brother-n-law never lost power and they live on Signal..

So obviously then you did not know when the next cells were coming through, unless you had cell service and could call someone with power. Did landline telephones go out as well? What about cell service?

 

[Pearl*]

So obviously then you did not know when the next cells were coming through, unless you had cell service and could call someone with power. Did landline telephones go out as well? What about cell service?

Ok, that's an interesting point. Does anybody know specifically if St. Ives lost power? I was one of the few lucky ones, but I'm not in St. Ives.

I can say as far as cell service, that I never lost Verizon service, although the call volume was extraordinary and therefore I had to try more than once to get my call through in several cases.

 

[Oriah]

Anyone know IF MP drove a company car before he was put on leave and terminated?

Good question. Also, what vehicles if any does MP's mother own? Looking for access to any other vehicle that may have been available when Gail dropped off the children, MP was allegedly at his mothers, and then Gail disappeared.

 

[ThoughtFox]

So obviously then you did not know when the next cells were coming through, unless you had cell service and could call someone with power. Did landline telephones go out as well? What about cell service?

There are several pages about this on the previous thread near the beginning.

I live on the East side of the county which was much harder hit than Signal, and our land line was out from April 27th through Sunday, May 1st. The phone lines were fixed the same day as the electric lines.

At my husband's office, there were several people who didn't get their phone and electricity back until Wednesday May 4th.

This was actually the biggest disaster Hamilton County has ever had. Ever. Not even the Blizzard of 93 compares to the number of people without service.

Sometimes cell service was completely out, and several times we got a text message saying "Emergency Use Only." I heard on the radio that first responders (especially in N. Georgia and Alabama) were pleading with people not to tie up the cell phone networks because they needed those to communicate.

Several of my neighbors just could not get a signal on Verizon even though we live near a mountain with several towers.

And the reason that is worrisome is that if Gail drove away to another part of the county and had some type of trouble, she might not have been able to call for help.

 

[ThoughtFox]

Also, something else to think about:

For those people who are expecting everyone to remember seeing either Gail or a Red Van either on or off the mountain, they should think about the context of those days after the tornadoes.

People were preoccupied with trees on top of houses, trees blocking roads, power problems, food going bad in a dead refrigerator, etc.

There were dozens of people who lost their lives on those days.

So yeah, telling people they should remember Gail if they saw her isn't too helpful because those were NOT ordinary days.

 

[Pearl*]

I especially don't like the idea of "calling out" the entire community as if they are all responsible somehow.

[snip]

The way to persuade witnesses to come forward is not to cajole, shame, or plant ideas in their minds based on information that might or might not be true. People have to come forward of their own free will, and they need to go to the police only and keep it confidential. So I'm really glad the Sheriff's Department issued that statement. Then people can't say they didn't get the message.

I completely agree and am very concerned that this approach is being used locally.

FB is considered to be rumor unless the info has been sourced or written in the mainstream media. You can link it if you want to bring it here, but it is speculation.

Okay...based on this moderator post, I don't think I'm crossing "the line" in what I'm about to say....

[snip] C had the sighting on the trail and she went to the media.

I do not believe this is the way it happened. On fb is a specific post where somebody took credit for giving Carol's phone number to the media, and from there it went.

Based on that, I would be very reluctant to come forward if I were a witness.

The post was on June 12 at 4:11 pm., and if there is a way to link a single post, I don't know how to do it.

https://www.facebook.com/home.php#!/BRINGGAILNOWACKIPALMGRENHOMENOW

 

[Oriah]

There are several pages about this on the previous thread near the beginning.

I live on the East side of the county which was much harder hit than Signal, and our land line was out from April 27th through Sunday, May 1st. The phone lines were fixed the same day as the electric lines.

At my husband's office, there were several people who didn't get their phone and electricity back until Wednesday May 4th.

This was actually the biggest disaster Hamilton County has ever had. Ever. Not even the Blizzard of 93 compares to the number of people without service.

Sometimes cell service was completely out, and several times we got a text message saying "Emergency Use Only." I heard on the radio that first responders (especially in N. Georgia and Alabama) were pleading with people not to tie up the cell phone networks because they needed those to communicate.

Several of my neighbors just could not get a signal on Verizon even though we live near a mountain with several towers.

And the reason that is worrisome is that if Gail drove away to another part of the county and had some type of trouble, she might not have been able to call for help.

Thank you Thoughtfox- sorry for missing the earlier posts about this. Trying to do too many things at once!

BBM:
This is worrisome to me as well, which is why I am trying to figure out exactly where power and phone outages were and for what time period. According to Verizon (I also have a Verizon acct so called to find out) some areas were widespread, others spotty, others blocked for emergency personnel as you mentioned, and some not at all.
But many of the locals to the areas hit seem to have conflicting information, so it is difficult to figure out where she may have been to lose service.

When I think about it, both myself and my significant other share the same cell accounts, but have different types of phones than one another. There are areas where he gets service and I do not, and vice versa. We have several different cell accts with different companies because of this, as well as several different types of phones (not obsessive, but being in SAR you NEED to be able to be in constant contact.)

So after that ramble- is it possible Gail or MP had another phone?
If I were thinking of divorcing my spouse for the reasons we have come to find Gail was, I would add an alternate cell phone to my 'stash.'

 

[ThoughtFox]

Oriah: I think it would be impossible to figure out exact outages. We are talking thousands of users scattered over a tri-state area around Chattanooga.

Add to that the fact that you don't know where Gail went, or if she went alone.

The only thing I can say with certainty is that cell phone outages were widespread, that land lines were out all over the county, and lots of streets were blocked by fallen trees and power lines.

Here's the point - even if Gail was in distress and trying to use her phone, she wouldn't be that different from many other people on those days.

ETA: The fact that Gail drove away into basically a disaster area not once to go to Alabama, but twice including Saturday, is one of the most disturbing things about this case, and has bothered me from the beginning. Oh, and I should mention that Sequatchie County on the back foot of the mountain had three twisters on April 27th, too.

Video: Triple Threat in Sequatchie - three tornadoes hit down on April 27th

 

[Pearl*]

[snip] Also--if the people who hang around in the trail area are sort of ...well, possibly on drugs ...then assuming C is one of them, would she be believable, anyhow?

This possibility has been suggested on several posts, that we must consider the chance that C's report was bogus.

I can't make that work for me from a logical standpoint. What would she have to gain by coming forward? And if she did stand to gain something, why would the second interview have been so much more conservative than the first one, with her not even willing to reveal her last name, even though it had been made public the day before? The Chattanoogan article [first one] was so much more detailed than the WDEF interview. I thought her demeanor in the second interview suggested fear, and even the tone and content of her comments suggested she was trying to minimize the significance of her observations that day at Big Fork. And her mention of the car she had observed in her neighborhood since giving her statement is of tremendous concern to me. I don't think she's making it up. JMO and FWIW.

Personally, I'm left also with the curious lead statement made by the newscaster, suggesting C's report somehow helped MP.

http://www.wdef.com/news/new_possib..._signal_mountain_mother_gail_palmgren/06/2011

"Its been more than a month since a Signal Mountain mother disappeared. Now, a new witness has come forward adding new information to the time line. And it might support the claim by Gail Palmgren's husband that she left him.

The comment below the article, made the next day by one of the Channel 12 staff members, which I would assume makes that particular comment rise to the level of a MSM report we can quote, is equally strange. It is in response to the public outcry that the lead made no sense, and Mr. Parker made no logical argument to clarify:

Our report
Submitted by Collins Parker on June 14, 2011 - 1:32pm.
She was allegedly spotted at a place notorious for ditching cars. No one can find her car. We also pointed out that this information came out late.

Is this the right interpretation of what the witness saw? We don't know (that's why we said "might"). Can you believe the witness? We don't know. Feel free to speculate for yourself.. that's what the comments are for.

But don't pretend there is only one side here. Police have to consider all possibilities. And the media should too. [bbm]

A bit defensive on the bolded remark?

So...since no car was found, the logical conclusion is that MP's statement is supported? I really need somebody to explain that to me. I'm left wondering who knows who at Channel 12. I think their report was meant as damage control for the article from the day before, but they couldn't do it.

 

[Oriah]

Respectfully snipped by me:
<The fact that Gail drove away into basically a disaster area not once to go to Alabama, but twice including Saturday, is one of the most disturbing things about this case, and has bothered me from the beginning. Oh, and I should mention that Sequatchie County on the back foot of the mountain had three twisters on April 27th, too>

That is equally disturbing to me as well. Do you know where most of the debris from the storms was disposed of?

 

[OldSteve]

Yes, always good advice!

I especially don't like the idea of "calling out" the entire community as if they are all responsible somehow. I believe it is possible that the red jeep got off the mountain without anyone seeing or noticing anything. Before this happened, if I had seen a red jeep somewhere, I wouldn't have glanced twice at it. Blonde woman driving? Why would anybody notice that? Man driving a red jeep? Why would anyone notice that? If it was driven away at night, no one would even see the color.

The way to persuade witnesses to come forward is not to cajole, shame, or plant ideas in their minds based on information that might or might not be true. People have to come forward of their own free will, and they need to go to the police only and keep it confidential. So I'm really glad the Sheriff's Department issued that statement. Then people can't say they didn't get the message.

Reading what you wrote - Holly Bobo's case immediately comes to mind...what you wrote could easily be said there! Thanks!

 

[Columbo]

This possibility has been suggested on several posts, that we must consider the chance that C's report was bogus.

I can't make that work for me from a logical standpoint. What would she have to gain by coming forward? And if she did stand to gain something, why would the second interview have been so much more conservative than the first one, with her not even willing to reveal her last name, even though it had been made public the day before? The Chattanoogan article [first one] was so much more detailed than the WDEF interview. I thought her demeanor in the second interview suggested fear, and even the tone and content of her comments suggested she was trying to minimize the significance of her observations that day at Big Fork. And her mention of the car she had observed in her neighborhood since giving her statement is of tremendous concern to me. I don't think she's making it up. JMO and FWIW.

Personally, I'm left also with the curious lead statement made by the newscaster, suggesting C's report somehow helped MP.

http://www.wdef.com/news/new_possib..._signal_mountain_mother_gail_palmgren/06/2011

"Its been more than a month since a Signal Mountain mother disappeared. Now, a new witness has come forward adding new information to the time line. And it might support the claim by Gail Palmgren's husband that she left him.

The comment below the article, made the next day by one of the Channel 12 staff members, which I would assume makes that particular comment rise to the level of a MSM report we can quote, is equally strange. It is in response to the public outcry that the lead made no sense, and it made no logical argument to clarify:

Our report
Submitted by Collins Parker on June 14, 2011 - 1:32pm.
She was allegedly spotted at a place notorious for ditching cars. No one can find her car. We also pointed out that this information came out late.

Is this the right interpretation of what the witness saw? We don't know (that's why we said "might"). Can you believe the witness? We don't know. Feel free to speculate for yourself.. that's what the comments are for.

But don't pretend there is only one side here. Police have to consider all possibilities. And the media should too. [bbm]

A bit defensive on the bolded remark?

So...since no car was found, the logical conclusion is that MP's statement is supported? I really need somebody to explain that to me. I'm left wondering who knows who at Channel 12. I think their report was meant as damage control for the article from the day before, but they couldn't do it.

I didn't realize that others had speculated on her being under the influence when she made the sighting.

Collins Parker sounds really defensive in that comment. I wonder why he seems to want to defend MP? I also don't get how he arrives at the conclusion that her car not being found and possibly being ditched might mean she left MP ?? huh??? She could ditch her car at an airport or someplace more civilized. I just can't see her going willingly into that area, given the soggy ground, rough road conditions, etc.

 

[Pearl*]

I didn't realize that others had speculated on her being under the influence when she made the sighting.

To clarify, I don't remember if anybody had specifically mentioned the chance she might have been under the influence. Several had mentioned the chance her report was not credible, though, and had suggested various reasons to wonder.

I agree that the possibility her report could be bogus should be looked at, but after thinking it over since the report surfaced on Sunday, it just doesn't make sense to me that she would be lying.

 

[Emeralgem]

So obviously then you did not know when the next cells were coming through, unless you had cell service and could call someone with power. Did landline telephones go out as well? What about cell service?

I have AT@T U-verse so when my power went out on the morning of the 27th after the first cell came through I did not have phone service.. My granddaughter had a cell phone but she did not charge it the night before so the phone was low on power until we could get it recharged...Fortunately, neighbors who had been at work, who came home early to assess their damages were able to tell us when the other cells were expected to come through.. Also, a friend came by to check on us and took us to a motel since I could not get out of my driveway..

 

[Oriah]

I have AT@T U-verse so when my power went out on the morning of the 27th after the first cell came through I did not have phone service.. My granddaughter had a cell phone but she did not charge it the night before so the phone was low on power until we could get it recharged...Fortunately, neighbors who had been at work, who came home early to assess their damages were able to tell us when the other cells were expected to come through.. Also, a friend came by to check on us and took us to a motel since I could not get out of my driveway..

Gracious Emeralgem. How terrifying for you. I am glad you are ok, but it certainly sounds like you sustained damage. I hope it was not too bad.

I have been told that service on the mountain is best with Verizon. Is that accurate, or is it normally good with many carriers, and severe weather is typically the only thing that interrupts service?

 

[Pearl*]

I have been told that service on the mountain is best with Verizon. Is that accurate, or is it normally good with many carriers, and severe weather is typically the only thing that interrupts service?

Verizon is the only reliable service on the mountain in my experience. Perhaps in certain areas on the mountain, other carriers are competitive, but I've been in MANY areas up here, when friends with other carriers had to borrow my Verizon phone in order to make a call. Weather seems not to be relevant.

I found this link. Some of the videos do not work, but the map at the top really tells the tale, I believe. AT&T may be comparable in "service areas" but not "3G service areas," which is what most phones depend on these days.

http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/24/verizon-vs-att-battle-of-the-coverage-maps/

 

[Oriah]

Verizon is the only reliable service on the mountain in my experience. Perhaps in certain areas on the mountain, other carriers are competitive, but I've been in MANY areas up here, when friends with other carriers had to borrow my Verizon phone in order to make a call. Weather seems not to be relevant.

I found this link. Some of the videos do not work, but the map at the top really tells the tale, I believe. AT&T may be comparable in "service areas" but not "3G service areas," which is what most phones depend on these days.

http://flowingdata.com/2009/11/24/verizon-vs-att-battle-of-the-coverage-maps/

Thanks, Pearl. That's how I understood it as well- and have been looking up towers for the last hour or so. Another somewhat random question- are towers visable to the naked eye on the mountain? Do you know of any that are concealed, such as made to look like a tree or church steeple or whatever?