TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

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  • #241
:twocents:Correct on CB and I believe when CB suggested or asked his LE contacts, if any of them(LE) had searched those types of places already....(CB had asked for reasons, so as not to duplicate checking out sights that had already been checked)...he was told "we have that covered...thank you"....in other words ....as CB would say "bugger off"....or "thanks but no thanks". As far as your suggestions about search ideas....they are all great,but I'm afraid that LE, might, ONCE AGAIN, take the same negative response to any1 else's efforts, if they tried to assist in this way...(remember AD in MS?)...Just saying:twocents:

Well, I sure wouldn't ask LE if they had done something on a case, but that's just me. I'm a strong supporter of LE, and a firm believer that all citizens should let LE do their jobs - they're the professionals - not us.

There's a way to do things that are helpful that don't interfere with LE, don't harrass people, don't impose on LE or anyone else, don't break any laws, and I guess I always assume there are people out there who also know how to go about it in a good way. Actually I know for a fact there are people who know how to do things in a good way that's helpful to the victim.

Certainly, anyone who doesn't understand how to be helpful without interfering, harrassing, imposing, demanding, being rude, slowing things down, breaking laws, etc, absolutely should not even attempt it, because none of that helps the victim.
 
  • #242
  • #243
Regarding clothing, imo-We know the kids would know what she was wearing. MP should have no idea, and SB might not have been able to catch a glimpse. Gail did not contact AD, and clearly didnt see AD so it all comes back to the people who saw Gail head to toe on that day. The kids must have. And clothing is pretty important I would think. I do not believe for one hot second that LE simply skipped this part.
 
  • #244
Well, I sure wouldn't ask LE if they had done something on a case, but that's just me. I'm a strong supporter of LE, and a firm believer that all citizens should let LE do their jobs - they're the professionals - not us.There's a way to do things that are helpful that don't interfere with LE, don't harrass people, don't impose on LE or anyone else, don't break any laws, and I guess I always assume there are people out there who also know how to go about it in a good way. Actually I know for a fact there are people who know how to do things in a good way that's helpful to the victim.

Certainly, anyone who doesn't understand how to be helpful without interfering, harrassing, imposing, demanding, being rude, slowing things down, breaking laws, etc, absolutely should not even attempt it, because none of that helps the victim.

In reference to myself I'm not a BIG fan of the SMPD...JMHO..
 
  • #245
Well, I sure wouldn't ask LE if they had done something on a case, but that's just me. I'm a strong supporter of LE, and a firm believer that all citizens should let LE do their jobs - they're the professionals - not us.

There's a way to do things that are helpful that don't interfere with LE, don't harrass people, don't impose on LE or anyone else, don't break any laws, and I guess I always assume there are people out there who also know how to go about it in a good way. Actually I know for a fact there are people who know how to do things in a good way that's helpful to the victim.

Certainly, anyone who doesn't understand how to be helpful without interfering, harrassing, imposing, demanding, being rude, slowing things down, breaking laws, etc, absolutely should not even attempt it, because none of that helps the victim.


This is a great post, deserving more thanks than the thanks button IMO. I keep struggling to understand why so many people seem to think bashing LE is going to help them along on this, and I have read a lot of bashing in various places. We NEED them, right?

How is it different from telling a kid you think he's too stupid to get a good report card because he's not shown much aptitude in the past, but you expect him to try his best anyway, just in case?
 
  • #246
I get that, but I keep struggling to understand why so many people seem to think bashing them is going to help them along on this. We NEED them, right?

How is it different from telling a kid you think he's too stupid to get a good report card because he's not shown much aptitude in the past, but you expect him to try his best anyway, just in case?

Since I really don't know how dedicated SMPD is in attempting to locate Gail or trying to find out what really happend to her, I don't know IF we need them or not..And just because I do not feel SMPD is capable of handling a case of this nature doesn't mean I am bashing them either.....Just telling it like it is....Let me add.. I am not a BIG fan of the "GOOD OLE BOY" system either...JMHO..

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/24/police-search-palmgren-house/

Some of the comments are most interesting and IMHO do tell it like it is too...JMHO
 
  • #247
I often wonder if they knew from the beginning that there was no reason to even bother looking for her, and the thought kind of scares me.

I've been thinking the same thing.

It's really hard for me to imagine LE could have been as apathetic about the whole thing as some people think.
 
  • #248
Just throwing a couple things out there:

1) Where did MP spend the night on 4/29 and was he alone? The reason I ask is that if he was with TH, I could see if they went together to his moms or out running errands, etc., only taking one car....so maybe when GP pulled up she saw MP's car parked there and thought he was home and just let the kids out and drove away thinking their dad was home?

2) I am guessing that the reason there is no description of the clothing she was last wearing is that LE probably has not been allowed to talk to the children in depth about anything....

BBM

This is my understanding, as well Irish:banghead:And just to throw :twocents: in here...this sounds very feasible to me, as I don't recall SB mentioning that she actually saw MP pull up in his own vehicle upon his return to the family's Signal Mountain home on the afternoon of April 30, 2011.

BBM Dark Red..I also read neighbors said Palmgren has not allowed the couple’s two children to be allowed outside the home much. I cannot even begin to imagine what those two children are going through right now...JMHO
 
  • #249
Since I really don't know how dedicated SMPD is in attempting to locate Gail or trying to find out what really happend to her, I don't know IF we need them or not..And just because I do not feel SMPD is capable of handling a case of this nature doesn't mean I am bashing them either.....Just telling it like it is....Let me add.. I am not a BIG fan of the "GOOD OLE BOY" system either...JMHO..

http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/24/police-search-palmgren-house/

Some of the comments are most interesting and IMHO do tell it like it is too...JMHO

Emeralgem, I really shouldn't have used your post as a springboard for mine, because it implied I was accusing you of bashing, and I did not intend that. I've edited my post. I dislike the "good ole boy" system as well. And I'm just not going to comment at this time, regarding whether or not I think it's a problem here.

If we have the problem, we need to work as a community toward fixing it, but we need to find Gail first.
 
  • #250
Emeralgem, I really shouldn't have used your post as a springboard for mine, because it implied I was accusing you of bashing, and I did not intend that. I've edited my post. I dislike the "good ole boy" system as well. And I'm just not going to comment at this time, regarding whether or not I think it's a problem here.

If we have the problem, we need to work as a community toward fixing it, but we need to find Gail first.

Please know, I didn't take offense to anything you stated..And I agree we do need to work as a community to fix whatever problems exist but finding out where Gail is and what happened to her should come first...JMHO
 
  • #251
:sigh:http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/28/chattanooga-missing-womans-siblings-file-restraini/
"The brother and sister of a missing Signal Mountain woman have asked a local court to prevent her husband from moving their two children out of state.

The restraining order filed by Kevin Nowacki and Diane Nowacki Nichols, siblings of the missing Gail Palmgren, 44, also asks the court to appoint a legal guardian for the children.

The order was filed Friday against Matthew Palmgren in Hamilton County Chancery Court. Chancellor Frank Brown III is scheduled to hear from the attorneys on July 11."


:sigh:published Tuesday, June 28th, 2011
Chattanooga: Missing woman’s siblings file restraining order against husband...Published in TFP moments ago...(06/28/2011 @ 12:52am EST)
:great:
 
  • #252
snipped...

The brother and sister of a missing Signal Mountain woman have asked a local court to prevent her husband from moving their two children out of state.

The restraining order filed by Kevin Nowacki and Diane Nowacki Nichols, siblings of the missing Gail Palmgren, 44, also asks the court to appoint a legal guardian for the children.

Wow. I hope this is all a preventative measure and not something they're doing because they know the kids have been harmed. Although I can't imagine that the kids hearing their dad, his lawyers, and their friends calling their missing mom "flat f-- up" is doing them any good, and the disparaging remarks issue is part of their request.

So I guess we can assume MP is trying to move them all out of state and hasn't been letting the rest of the family see the kids. What a nice guy.
 
  • #253
I often wonder if they knew from the beginning that there was no reason to even bother looking for her, and the thought kind of scares me.

Glorias, I'm not sure what you mean here.

The only reason I can think of not to look for a missing person, is if it is known for absolute sure that they left willingly, of their own accord, and they are safe and unharmed.

In every other circumstance I can think of, and unless and until the above is confirmed for an absolute fact, it is my understanding and opinion that it is imperative that every missing person be looked for, until they are found, or until sure evidence of what happened to them is discovered and confirmed.

Can you clarify what you meant?

Thanks.
 
  • #254
This scenario sort of makes sense to me, also.... but (and this is NOT bashing LE at all) if that's the case, I would think there would have to be a pre-existing relationship between the LEO who texted the message to AD- or else it's really just not a good idea for LE working an active investigation.

If this case ends up in a criminal court, I would think the actions of the detective are going to be shredded by defense. It just seems like a bad idea, in todays' techno era. Kwim?

:sigh:http://www.timesfreepress.com/news/2011/jun/28/chattanooga-missing-womans-siblings-file-restraini/
"The brother and sister of a missing Signal Mountain woman have asked a local court to prevent her husband from moving their two children out of state.

The restraining order filed by Kevin Nowacki and Diane Nowacki Nichols, siblings of the missing Gail Palmgren, 44, also asks the court to appoint a legal guardian for the children.

The order was filed Friday against Matthew Palmgren in Hamilton County Chancery Court. Chancellor Frank Brown III is scheduled to hear from the attorneys on July 11."


:sigh:published Tuesday, June 28th, 2011
Chattanooga: Missing woman’s siblings file restraining order against husband...Published in TFP moments ago...(06/28/2011 @ 12:52am EST)
:great:

I did wonder if this was his reason for withdrawing his divorce motion....to prevent the possibility of the involvement of the GAL. Wonder which state he is moving to? Batesville, MS, perhaps?

The sad thing is, he'll probably win. He'll argue that no matter where they live, it doesn't change the fact that their mother is missing, but that the speculation about his involvement will be harmful to the kids. Also, in either case, whether GP is voluntarily missing, or God forbid, deceased, the remaining parent is usually given custody, and would thus have the right to move regardless of the wishes of GP's family.

My only hope is that a good GAL would be appointed. The kids only have MPs version of things though and may even be angry at their mother for leaving depending on what he has told them. The GAL would no doubt talk to the family and the police and others who may have insight into the family. The GAL could also request some therapy for the kids, or at least an evaluation.

If the family thought he was not involved, do you think they would take this step? I don't. And if they want a GAL appointed, I think that speaks volumes.
 
  • #255
Restraining order quick reference

  • Filed by Diane and Kevin
  • Filed on Friday, June 24
  • Filed in Hamilton County Chancery Court
  • Scheduled to be heard July 11 by Chancellor Frank Brown III
  • Matt cannot
    • move kids out of state
    • move kids further than 100 miles from their Signal Mountain home
    • make disparaging remarks about Gail to or in the presence of kids
    • damage or sell any of Gail's or jointly owned property
  • Matt must
    • set up counseling for kids
  • Asks for
    • court to appoint a legal guardian other than Matt for kids
    • visitation with kids by Gail’s family

(taking advantage of the opportunity to practice using the LIST function)
 
  • #256
TENNESSEE COMPILATION OF SELECTED LAWS ON CHILDREN, YOUTH AND FAMILIES, 2010 EDITION

TENNESSEE CODE ANNOTATED

Title 34 Guardianship

Chapter 1 Guardianships and Conservatorships Generally

34-1-107. Guardian ad litem. -

(a) (1) Except as otherwise provided in this subsection (a), on the filing of a petition for the appointment of a fiduciary, the court shall appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the respondent. The court also may appoint a guardian ad litem to represent the interest of the minor or disabled person in any proceeding brought by the fiduciary. If the respondent is represented by adversary counsel who has made an appearance for the respondent, no guardian ad litem shall be appointed.

(2) The court may waive the appointment of a guardian ad litem if the petitioner or at least one (1) of the petitioners for the appointment is:

(A) A parent of the minor for whom a guardian is sought;

(B) A minor who has attained fourteen (14) years of age; or

(C) An adult respondent.

(3) The court may waive the appointment of a guardian ad litem if the court determines the waiver is in the best interests of the minor or disabled person.

(b) If the guardian ad litem is to be appointed, the appointment shall be made no later than ten (10) days from the date the petition for the appointment of the fiduciary was filed.

(c) The person appointed guardian ad litem shall be a lawyer licensed to practice in the state of Tennessee. If there are insufficient lawyers within the court's jurisdiction for the appointment of a lawyer as guardian ad litem, the court may appoint a nonlawyer.

(d) (1) The guardian ad litem owes a duty to the court to impartially investigate to determine the facts and report the facts to the court. The guardian ad litem is not an advocate for the respondent but has a duty to determine what is best for the respondent's welfare.

(2) In each proceeding, the guardian ad litem shall:

(A) Verify that the respondent and each other person required to be served or notified was served or notified;

(B) Consult with the respondent in person as soon as possible after appointment;

(C) If possible, explain in language understandable to the respondent the:

(i) Substance of the petition;

(ii) Nature of the proceedings;

(iii) Respondent's right to protest the petition;

(iv) Identity of the proposed fiduciary; and

(v) Respondent's rights as set forth in § 34-3-106; and

(D) Determine if the proposed fiduciary is the appropriate person to be appointed.

(3) In a proceeding for the appointment of a conservator, the guardian ad litem shall investigate the physical and mental capabilities of the respondent.

(4) In a proceeding seeking the appointment of a fiduciary to manage the respondent's property, the guardian ad litem shall investigate the:

(A) Nature and extent of the respondent's property;

(B) Financial capabilities of the proposed fiduciary; and

(C) Proposed property management plan.

(e) The order appointing the guardian ad litem shall authorize the guardian ad litem access to records of the respondent in any financial institution and to review medical records, and permit the guardian ad litem to discuss the respondent's physical and mental conditions with any physician, psychologist or other health care provider who may have pertinent information.

(f) The guardian ad litem shall make a written report to the court at least three (3) days prior to the date set for hearing the matter, which time period may be waived in the judge's discretion. The written report shall provide the court with the results of the guardian ad litem's investigation. The guardian ad litem's report shall specifically state whether:

(1) (A) The respondent wants to contest:

(i) The need for a fiduciary;

(ii) Merely the person to be the fiduciary; or

(iii) Neither;

(B) If the respondent wants to contest any portion of the proceeding and the guardian ad litem's opinion is that there should be a fiduciary appointed, the guardian ad litem shall identify the adversary counsel or indicate there is none and request the appointment of an attorney ad litem;

(2) A fiduciary should be appointed and, if so, whether:

(A) The proposed fiduciary should be appointed; or

(B) Someone else, identified by the guardian ad litem, should be appointed;

(3) The proposed property management plan should be adopted and, if not, what changes should be considered.

(4) The respondent will attend the hearing and, if, in the opinion of the guardian ad litem, it is not in the respondent's best interest to attend, why.

(g) Unless the court orders otherwise, the guardian ad litem has no continuing duty once an order has been entered disposing of the petition that caused the guardian ad litem's appointment.

(h) When investigating financial records of a respondent, the guardian ad litem shall be the customer within the meaning set forth in title 45, chapter 10, known as the Financial Records Privacy Act.

[Acts 1992, ch. 794, § 8; T.C.A. § 34-11-107; Acts 2004, ch. 771, § 1; 2007, ch. 26, § 1.]

http://www.tn.gov/tccy/tnchild/34/34-1-107.htm

2010 Tennessee Code
Title 36 - Domestic Relations
Chapter 4 - Divorce and Annulment
36-4-132 - Appointment of guardian ad litem.
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36-4-132. Appointment of guardian ad litem.
(a) In an action for dissolution of marriage involving minor children, upon its own motion or upon the motion of either party, the court may appoint a guardian ad litem for any minor child of the marriage.

http://law.justia.com/codes/tennessee/2010/title-36/chapter-4/36-4-132/


RULE 40A: APPOINTMENT OF GUARDIANS AD LITEM IN CUSTODY PROCEEDINGS.

http://www.tncourts.gov/rules/supreme-court/40a

SECTION 2. APPLICABILITY

This Rule applies to all custody proceedings in Tennessee, regardless of the court in which the proceedings are filed, and to all custody proceedings pending on or commenced after the effective date of this Rule.

SECTION 3. GUARDIAN AD LITEM APPOINTMENTS

(a) Consistent with Tennessee Code Annotated section 36-4-132, in a custody proceeding the court may appoint a guardian ad litem when the court finds that the child′s best interests are not adequately protected by the parties and that separate representation of the child′s best interests is necessary. Such an appointment may be made at any stage of the proceeding.

(b) Courts should not routinely appoint guardians ad litem in custody proceedings. Rather, the court′s discretion to appoint guardians ad litem shall be exercised sparingly. In most instances, the child′s best interests will be adequately protected by the parties.

(c) In determining whether appointing a guardian ad litem is necessary, the court shall consider:

(1) the fundamental right of parents to the care, custody, and control of their children.

(2) the nature and adequacy of the evidence the parties likely will present;

(3) the court′s need for additional information and/or assistance;

(4) the financial burden on the parties of appointing a guardian ad litem and the ability of the parties to pay reasonable fees to the guardian ad litem;

(5) the cost and availability of alternative methods of obtaining the information/evidence necessary to resolve the issues in the proceeding without appointing a guardian ad litem; and

(6) any factors indicating a particularized need for the appointment of a guardian ad litem, including:

(i) the circumstances and needs of the child, including the child′s age and developmental level;

(ii) any desire for representation or participation expressed by the child;

(iii) any inappropriate adult influence on or manipulation of the child;

(iv) the likelihood that the child will be called as a witness or be questioned by the court in chambers and the need to minimize harm to the child from the processes of litigation;

(v) any higher than normal level of acrimony indicating the parties lack of objectivity concerning the needs and best interests of the child;

(vi) any interference, or threatened interference, with custody, access, visitation, or parenting time, including abduction or risk of abduction of the child;

(vii) the likelihood of a geographic relocation of the child that could substantially reduce the child′s time with a parent, a sibling, or another individual with whom the child has a close relationship;

(viii) any conduct by a party or an individual with whom a party associates which raises serious concerns for the safety of the child during periods of custody, visitation, or parenting time with that party;

(ix) any special physical, educational, or mental-health needs of the child that require investigation or advocacy; and

(x) any dispute as to paternity of the child.
 
  • #257
:twocents:Correct on CB and I believe when CB suggested or asked his LE contacts, if any of them(LE) had searched those types of places already....(CB had asked for reasons, so as not to duplicate checking out sights that had already been checked)...he was told "we have that covered...thank you"....in other words ....as CB would say "bugger off"....or "thanks but no thanks". As far as your suggestions about search ideas....they are all great,but I'm afraid that LE, might, ONCE AGAIN, take the same negative response to any1 else's efforts, if they tried to assist in this way...(remember AD in MS?)...Just saying:twocents:

This was SMPD right? Before HCSO came in?
 
  • #258
snipped...

My only hope is that a good GAL would be appointed. The kids only have MPs version of things though and may even be angry at their mother for leaving depending on what he has told them. The GAL would no doubt talk to the family and the police and others who may have insight into the family. The GAL could also request some therapy for the kids, or at least an evaluation.

If the family thought he was not involved, do you think they would take this step? I don't. And if they want a GAL appointed, I think that speaks volumes.

I hope the kids aren't being told that Gail ran off and left them, because she's probably going to be found ill, hurt, or worse. Or if she's never found at all, they'll grow up and realize she probably didn't leave of her own accord.

I agree, I don't think the siblings would have filed this unless they were very worried about MP on multiple levels -- involvement in her disappearance, taking advantage of the situation by possibly selling joint property, bad-mouthing Gail, etc.
 
  • #259
Sounds like things are getting a little more complicated for MP. imo. This would limit his future job hunting. Chattanooga needing a good pharmacist?
 
  • #260
Sounds like things are getting a little more complicated for MP. imo. This would limit his future job hunting. Chattanooga needing a good pharmacist?

IF granted it certainly would limit his job hunting especially since Nashville, Memphis and Knoxville are all over a 100 miles away from the Signal Mtn home...
 
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