TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[Pearl*]

I was referring back to the timeline posted a couple pages back and wondered if we have a timeline anywhere to show MP's reported activities/locations during the time period of April 29 - May 2. My apologies if I'm missing it.

 

[BeanE]

Gail's sister and AD were trying to get MP to call LE and report her missing. Diane called first on the 2nd and MP called later in the day, iirc.

Wouldn't there be a log with the time Diane called LE and then LE calling Gail. The call from LE to her would also show on her phone records.

I would think (hope!) there would be a log for that.

Diane and Arlene weren't calling Matt until Monday May 2, right?

It just bugs me that it was okay with everybody - including LE - that Gail (who disappeared right out from under LE's nose FGS) disappeared.

Was she actually in contact with people between the time she drove away on Sat and the cell phone 'activity' on Mon? There has to be a reason it was okay with everybody - as scared as she was and saying that someone was following her - that she was gone.

It was okay until Monday. 48 hours. Two days. Despite LE knowing full well that the first few hours, and up to the first 24, are the most critical when someone goes missing.

This does not add up, and it's like an elephant in the room to me.

What happened during those 48 hours that made everybody - including LE - okay that Gail wasn't home, despite her being so scared and saying someone was following her?

 

[Pearl*]

Quote from Sleuthy:
And the children have been TOLD not to speak to anyone about their mother. MP made that very clear to the children's school counselors

Shame on <modsnip>'s admin and counselor's for not interceding and at least make sure the children were OK! Hopefully, this isn't something they will regret later, they see this A LOT!!

[bbm]

Are school counselors allowed to speak to children if the parent has said no? And, Sleuthy, are you saying MP actually called the counselors to say not to speak with them? Surely not....

 

[BeanE]

The names on the radio interview from AD, initials TG.

I am not sure now where it states Gail told them she had found out about the affair, but I think it was said when GP gave them the jewelry to hold. They must have wondered a reason behind it and therefore, telling them she thought Matt was having an affair, felt she was being followed, and assumed a divorce was imminent. IMHO I still can't believe as much as she seemed to trust them, how they handled it...SMH

Thank you, happy!

 

[BeanE]

I was referring back to the timeline posted a couple pages back and wondered if we have a timeline anywhere to show MP's reported activities/locations during the time period of April 29 - May 2. My apologies if I'm missing it.

If you've seen (or if anyone has seen) anything in MSM or LE docs that's not in my mindmap timeline, I would very much appreciate the info so I can add it in.

http://www.mindmeister.com/102206426/gail-palmgren-disappearance-timeline

While we're on the topic, if anyone has time to review that and offer additions, corrections, clarifications, etc - anything to increase the detail, clarity, accuracy, etc, I can't tell you how grateful I'd be.

 

[BeanE]

AZlawyer has answered questions in our legal thread!!!!

:woohoo:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=142744"]TN Legal Questions for our Verified Attorneys - Gail Palmgren case - *No Discussion* - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[fireflylink]

I would think (hope!) there would be a log for that.

Diane and Arlene weren't calling Matt until Monday May 2, right?

It just bugs me that it was okay with everybody - including LE - that Gail (who disappeared right out from under LE's nose FGS) disappeared.

Was she actually in contact with people between the time she drove away on Sat and the cell phone 'activity' on Mon? There has to be a reason it was okay with everybody - as scared as she was and saying that someone was following her - that she was gone.

It was okay until Monday. 48 hours. Two days. Despite LE knowing full well that the first few hours, and up to the first 24, are the most critical when someone goes missing.

This does not add up, and it's like an elephant in the room to me.

What happened during those 48 hours that made everybody - including LE - okay that Gail wasn't home, despite her being so scared and saying someone was following her?

Hope this helps BeanE

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203035.asp

Arlene said it was unusual for her not to hear from Gail. She called her cellphone on Sunday, but uncharacteristically there was no answer. She said she called the Palmgren home and Matt answered. He told her, "She just dropped my kids off and left."

By Wednesday Arlene was getting really worried and she headed for Chattanooga. She stayed with a neighbor of the Palmgrens, who was also very concerned.

Arlene said she confronted Matt, asking him why he had waited two days to report her missing, why he was not involved in an active search, why the police were not working the case, why he was still going to work.

She said Matt told her, "You're making things very complicated."

 

[Columbo]

[/b]

BBM
:twocents:We don't know WHAT MP actually said to the children (if anything at all). HE SAYS this is what HE SAID to them...but this is his word and his word alone....when he responded to AD & DN insistence that he file a missing person report immediately.

Remember, he told AD she was "making things very complicated"(I may have paraphrased there but very close to what was actually said). We don't know what GP may have said to her children during the drive from Wetumpka, Alabama to Signal Mtn....or when they arrived back at the Signal Mountain Home. To my knowledge the children have not spoken to ANYONE other than MP's immediate side of HIS family since GP went missing (without supervision from someone from MP's family being present during the time of the conversation). GP's siblings, DN & KN have previously stated, and is a part of their court docs....that they have not been able to speak with the children ALONE (UNSUPERVISED) since their sister GP went missing on April 30,2011. :twocents:This seems a bit odd to me....does it to you all? They LOVE their Aunt and Uncle....yet they cannot be trusted alone with them??? Very strange IMHO. :twocents:

MP's attorney said, in court during "THE EMERGENCY SESSION" with Chancellor Frank Brown, that when he received the call on Friday from Hamilton County Courts with regard to the Temporary Order Chancellor Frank Brown had just signed....MP's attorney stated he was in the process of having his client(MP) and his children provide DNA samples for LE.
I don't know if he ever followed through on this.....he seemed kinda ticked off at the Friday court notification. Who knows, maybe there wasn't even an attempt to provide DNA samples for LE by MP's attorney...Maybe this was said in court as a ~~Now you have pissed us off comment~~ and Now maybe they(MP & kids) won't provide DNA for LE after all. If you are gonna fight MP on this... they may not get anything they want....and a "fight" is what they will get from MP and his attorney's. JMHO:twocentsYou ...meaning KN & DN)

:twocents:Anyway, getting back to the original comment...I don't think LE has officially or unofficially spoken to GP's children at all. And the children have been TOLD not to speak to anyone about their mother. MP made that very clear to the children's school counselors as well...:twocents:

Thanks for your constructive post, Sleuthy1. That statement does get back to the fact that no one has spoken to the children. They are the only ones who can tell anyone what happened on the way back from Wetumpka, and what their mom said (if anything) about where she was going when she dropped them off at the SM house.

 

[Pearl*]

If you've seen (or if anyone has seen) anything in MSM or LE docs that's not in my mindmap timeline, I would very much appreciate the info so I can add it in.

http://www.mindmeister.com/102206426/gail-palmgren-disappearance-timeline

While we're on the topic, if anyone has time to review that and offer additions, corrections, clarifications, etc - anything to increase the detail, clarity, accuracy, etc, I can't tell you how grateful I'd be.

Hmmm. Must it be in MSM docs? We have a couple things from yesterday's broadcast, but with no documentation to support it, not sure you want it.

 

[carolinagirl56]

FWIW, I think it was a great question regarding whether or not Arlene was in the car with Gail during the siting-a perfect means for Arlene to absolutely state that she was not...in the event anyone was actually thinking that. Perfect question, perfect response and then you move on. Kudos to both.

I thought I remembered that the passenger had dark hair.

 

[Melodie]

I would think (hope!) there would be a log for that.

Diane and Arlene weren't calling Matt until Monday May 2, right?

It just bugs me that it was okay with everybody - including LE - that Gail (who disappeared right out from under LE's nose FGS) disappeared.

Was she actually in contact with people between the time she drove away on Sat and the cell phone 'activity' on Mon? There has to be a reason it was okay with everybody - as scared as she was and saying that someone was following her - that she was gone.

It was okay until Monday. 48 hours. Two days. Despite LE knowing full well that the first few hours, and up to the first 24, are the most critical when someone goes missing.

This does not add up, and it's like an elephant in the room to me.

What happened during those 48 hours that made everybody - including LE - okay that Gail wasn't home, despite her being so scared and saying someone was following her?

BBM- Are we sure that LE knew that Gail was missing before it was officially reported? Forgive me if this is known. I have not seen that. I mean, I know that they were aware that there was a problem, and they apparently spoke to Gail and or her sister on the 30th, but did they just not hear anymore about it until MP reported her missing, so they didn't know? Also, my understanding is that AD and DN tried to call Gail from the time she was last seen on the 30th and were obviously unable to reach her, which of course concerned them. I thought I read somewhere that DN wanted to call and report her missing, but was told that MP needed to do it since he was the spouse. Is that correct? Again, it was my understanding that at the least AD and DN (maybe others, too?) were frantic to do something, but MP resisted contacting LE and reporting her missing until 5/2. I assumed LE did not officially know that she was missing until then. Is that right or am I missing something?

 

[BeanE]

Hope this helps BeanE

http://www.chattanoogan.com/articles/article_203035.asp

Arlene said it was unusual for her not to hear from Gail. She called her cellphone on Sunday, but uncharacteristically there was no answer. She said she called the Palmgren home and Matt answered. He told her, "She just dropped my kids off and left."

Thanks, firefly. I forgot about the phone call Sunday night. It still doesn't change anything for me.

Why wasn't anyone - including LE - looking for Gail on Saturday? Like by 12:30 or 1pm?

This is really bothering me. She was saying she was scared. She was saying someone was following her. Then she drops off the face of the earth - and nobody looks for her?

Uh uh. Doesn't add up. Why was it okay for Gail to be so scared? Why was it okay for Gail to be followed?

There's a missing puzzle piece here. Missing information. Something made it okay with EVERYBODY - including LE, who Gail had just gotten off the phone with.

 

[BeanE]

Hmmm. Must it be in MSM docs? We have a couple things from yesterday's broadcast, but with no documentation to support it, not sure you want it.

No, I'm sorry Not until/unless we get an archive of it. Everything on my website is substantiated. I even have LE using various info on it for reference in a few cases. I have to be able to provide confirmation of the info.

 

[BeanE]

BBM- Are we sure that LE knew that Gail was missing before it was officially reported? Forgive me if this is known. I have not seen that. I mean, I know that they were aware that there was a problem, and they apparently spoke to Gail and or her sister on the 30th, but did they just not hear anymore about it until MP reported her missing, so they didn't know? Also, my understanding is that AD and DN tried to call Gail from the time she was last seen on the 30th and were obviously unable to reach her, which of course concerned them. I thought I read somewhere that DN wanted to call and report her missing, but was told that MP needed to do it since he was the spouse. Is that correct? Again, it was my understanding that at the least AD and DN (maybe others, too?) were frantic to do something, but MP resisted contacting LE and reporting her missing until 5/2. I assumed LE did not officially know that she was missing until then. Is that right or am I missing something?

I don't know when LE knew. And that's part of what's bothering me so much. How could they not know?

Gail was scared. She was saying she was being followed. Minutes after getting off the phone with LE, she disappears. And LE doesn't know? How could that be? How did they ensure she would be okay?

Do you mean that Diane and Arlene called LE, LE who Gail had been on the phone with, saying she was scared, saying she was being followed, and now, on top of that, they've got two frantic women on the phone, saying, "She's disappeared! Oh my God! We CAN'T FIND HER!", and LE said, "Nope! We're not doing a thing unless her husband calls."?

Uh uh. Something's missing here. It doesn't add up.

 

[Pearl*]

No, I'm sorry Not until/unless we get an archive of it. Everything on my website is substantiated. I even have LE using various info on it for reference in a few cases. I have to be able to provide confirmation of the info.

I understand. I can't believe it isn't on there somewhere. I think it would be a sure thing that the attorneys recorded it though. Maybe they'd help us out? :denied:

 

[glorias]

I was referring back to the timeline posted a couple pages back and wondered if we have a timeline anywhere to show MP's reported activities/locations during the time period of April 29 - May 2. My apologies if I'm missing it.

I don't think we know anything about that time except about when he got home on the 29th after he came back early from the "conference", and also when he showed up on the 30th and found Gail had left. I would LOVE to know what he did when he arrived on the 30th and saw Gail wasn't there.

 

[glorias]

Diane and Arlene weren't calling Matt until Monday May 2, right?

(snip)

What happened during those 48 hours that made everybody - including LE - okay that Gail wasn't home, despite her being so scared and saying someone was following her?

Arlene called her cell phone on the 30th and the 1st. At some point she called the house directly because the cell wasn't answering, and she got Matt. This is in an interview somewhere, and because I don't have the interview notes I can't tell you which one it was -- hopefully someone else has the actual link. (Although I might find it in a few days, but it won't be tonight, sorry.)

I don't think it's fair to say everyone was "okay" that Gail wasn't home. Arlene and Diane clearly were worried on the 30th, and their worry escalated until LE was called on the 2nd.

 

[Melodie]

I don't know when LE knew. And that's part of what's bothering me so much. How could they not know?

Gail was scared. She was saying she was being followed. Minutes after getting off the phone with LE, she disappears. And LE doesn't know? How could that be? How did they ensure she would be okay?

Do you mean that Diane and Arlene called LE, LE who Gail had been on the phone with, saying she was scared, saying she was being followed, and now, on top of that, they've got two frantic women on the phone, saying, "She's disappeared! Oh my God! We CAN'T FIND HER!", and LE said, "Nope! We're not doing a thing unless her husband calls."?

Uh uh. Something's missing here. It doesn't add up.

I'm not sure exactly when LE knew that she was officially missing either, I was hoping maybe someone knew the answer. If you're saying that after the trouble and talking to her that day, they should have followed up on it, I wholeheartedly agree.

I'm not sure, but it was my understanding that Arlene and Diane did not call LE, so no, I don't think LE said no to them. I thought I read somewhere at one point early on that the reason given for why Diane did not make the call was because she was told that MP needed to do it or she felt he needed to do it. And when I say she may have been told that he needed to make the call, I'm not saying by the SMP. I thought it came from somebody else, but I'm not sure. Does anyone else remember this, or did I dream it?

Other than that, I'm not sure what you're thinking. If it's why didn't someone do something, I agree. It's infuriating, confusing and sad. If you are saying that maybe the inaction was due to the fact that Gail told them something that made them unconcerned and know that she was fine, I don't think I agree with that. Because does that mean that they still know she's fine, but they are searching properties and getting DNA samples, etc? Or, they knew she was fine and were unconcerned at the time, but then something turned bad for her and now her disappearance is a worry? I really have a very hard time wrapping my mind around any scenario where Gail had all of these terrible things going on in her life and at the exact same time precisely, she meets with a terrible unfortunate accident. No one is that unlucky. Plus, any unfortunate accident, I believe would leave a trail. A wrecked vehicle, sightings of her before, money trail, etc.

I just keep shaking my head. I wish someone could give us a plausible theory for why Gail has been gone for so long. Most of them just don't make sense to me. JMO

 

[BeanE]

Arlene called her cell phone on the 30th and the 1st. At some point she called the house directly because the cell wasn't answering, and she got Matt. This is in an interview somewhere, and because I don't have the interview notes I can't tell you which one it was -- hopefully someone else has the actual link. (Although I might find it in a few days, but it won't be tonight, sorry.)

I don't think it's fair to say everyone was "okay" that Gail wasn't home. Arlene and Diane clearly were worried on the 30th, and their worry escalated until LE was called on the 2nd.

I have the link. Sunday night Arlene called Matt.

I don't think it's fair not to look for someone who disappears in the circumstances under which Gail disappeared.

Why wasn't anyone - including LE - looking for Gail - on Saturday - when she disappeared minutes after being on the phone with LE, saying she was scared, saying someone was following her?

Information is missing. There has to be a reason nobody - including LE - looked for her on Saturday.

 

[glorias]

I don't know when LE knew. And that's part of what's bothering me so much. How could they not know?

Gail was scared. She was saying she was being followed. Minutes after getting off the phone with LE, she disappears. And LE doesn't know? How could that be? How did they ensure she would be okay?

Do you mean that Diane and Arlene called LE, LE who Gail had been on the phone with, saying she was scared, saying she was being followed, and now, on top of that, they've got two frantic women on the phone, saying, "She's disappeared! Oh my God! We CAN'T FIND HER!", and LE said, "Nope! We're not doing a thing unless her husband calls."?

Uh uh. Something's missing here. It doesn't add up.

Oh, I think it adds up just fine. This is all speculation based on the case and on my own experience with a domestic violence situation I was in almost 20 years ago.

Gail is nervous, in a panic, upset. She's talking to everyone who will listen, including LE. Nothing actually illegal has happened, though, and whoever she spoke with at LE is disinterested, whether they are consciously aware of it or not. After the comments from LE and Judge Brown, I suspect many in LE thought this was all just a divorce case and they didn't want to get involved. I personally see a sort of underlying idea from LE and the court that there are two sets of evidence/information, one for the divorce, one for the missing person, and they haven't combined the two things.

Gail disappears on the 30th. Arlene tries to call, gets no answer. Diane probably did as well. On the 1st, Arlene speaks to Matt (again, I don't have this info right at my fingertips, but I am pretty sure AD talked about this in the first SMM interview.) Diane spoke with Matt, too, and finally calls LE on the 2nd and insists Matt does as well. When Matt speaks with LE, he says "oh, she's mentally unstable and has disappeared before." Again, LE is disinterested because they think it's just a divorce case.

Days go by. It finally hits the media. Susie, Arlene, Diane all tell the media basically the same story: Gail was scared, she might have been followed, she's given items to numerous people for safekeeping, Matt was cheating, they were going to get divorced.

A couple weeks go by and LE suddenly realizes this isn't just a messy divorce case, but time has been lost. Yet there still isn't any real solid evidence that something happened to Gail, so they clam up. The initial comments made by LE like "If it was my wife, I would have called sooner" dry up. They get tight lipped and, IMVHO, the spokesperson at the one press conference even gets a little snippy if a reporter dares ask a question. They share nothing and they repeat they will not share anything.

I know people think that means LE is working behind the scenes, and I don't doubt they are. But I also think they are clamming up because they know -- especially now that Diane has told the media that LE called Gail as she was driving back to TN the day she disappeared -- that LE didn't do their job to believe Gail or protect her.

LE talked to her as she was driving home, so scared she wanted them at the house. They clearly wouldn't go to the house. She didn't stay there, instead driving off, never to be seen again. (Edit: Unless C's sighting was of Gail, of course.) LE has to know it has some explaining to do about that.

Even if it turns out Gail had an accident or harmed herself, LE needed to step in at some point. They were given ample opportunity from November 2010 when the first 911 call was made until April 30 when Gail spoke to them just before she disappeared. Why didn't they realize the seriousness of the situation?

This is all my opinion. I know it's a rant, but I personally have dealt with LE that doesn't care, and I am seeing just a little too much in this case that is similar to what I personally have dealt with.