TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[MacKat]

:twocents:Yes...It was nice to see the family make an updated plea. They (KN & DN) have been quiet since leaving the TN area. People, in general, were starting to wonder what their current thoughts were about the investigation/search for their sister GP. :

Ah, but wouldn't you agree that just because we cannot hear their voices does not mean they are not speaking.

 

[Sleuthy1]

Ah, but wouldn't you agree that just because we cannot hear their voices does not mean they are not speaking.

I was speaking of INTERNET activity/presence...not speaking in general.:twocents:

 

[Melodie]

snipped



I agree with all of what you said but just snipped to this part because it mentions something I've been surprised about. I have a blog journal sort of thing with 2 people from Tennessee, and they have shown no interest in me mentioning the case. When I asked them directly, they said they hadn't heard of it and assumed it must not be a big deal because it wasn't in the Knoxville or Nashville papers. One guy said he didn't care about "another blonde white woman going missing".

Personally, I was VERY taken aback, but then I calmed down and realized there has been an outcry recently about the types of cases that get publicized. There are a lot of missing people and the media only reports on the ones that will get the most attention.

I'm afraid we might be at the point where, barring confession or finding Gail and/or her Jeep, the case is going to go cold. We'll see if the paperwork K&D filed is re-filed with the new judge, as that might bring up some interesting info.

Precisely. Sometimes, I think it is the way a case is handled or presented to the public that determines the amount of interest and support. This is something that concerns me so much. If people are all hush-hush about it, then I think that makes people wonder why. They want to fill in the blank with an answer for it. Was she "up to something"? The family knows "something", that's why they.... There must be "some good reason" why it's not all over the news. It's just human nature to question. Unfortunately, it's my opinion that it makes it all the more difficult to get anywhere and keep this case from going cold without the assistance of the public. Think of all the places around this area where someone out there might have seen something, but they don't know it because they haven't heard about Gail's story?

 

[Sleuthy1]

:happy4th::fireworks::fireworks2:HAPPY & SAFE 4TH OF JULY WEEKEND TO EVERYONE ~ :usa:

 

[fran]

A number of us didn't get to listen to the Jammer interview, and there's no archive.

Did Arlene answer this question? If so, what was her answer? What kind of doctor? Was that mentioned?

TIA, frannie

I'm almost certain he said "psychiatrist." If someone else recalls differently. please let me know. To be honest, I wrote down 'doctor,' but I knew he meant psychiatrist, because I thought to myself, 'That was about the time she lost her dad (?) and her brother.' So I figured that made sense. Jammer specifically, at one time during the conversation, mentioned Gail's brother's death.

AD said, "No I didn't know that." But she went on to elaborate that GP doesn't know everything about her (meaning AD's) life before they met either. She also went on to explain that she'd been through a divorce previously and that's why she felt she could help GP and that's why GP trusted her. You know, the kind of thing, "Been there, done that." Anyway, not word for word, but close.

JMHO
fran

PS....I've looked also, for archives for the show. As a matter of fact, it seems they SHOULD have an archive but they're website doesn't all work as it's supposed to. Some links they provide link to 'cannot be found or doesn't exist.'

 

[Columbo]

Good post. Now that I've stopped laughing.............. Question:

Is it possible that a head injury could cause these strange behaviors in GP? If we speculate on the black eye not being caused by a run in with a door. Thanks Sleuthy.

This thought has been occurring to me from time to time, too. It's bothersome that the only people reporting strange behavior are MP and the lawyer couple at the lake. Why did no one else notice?

It does sound like she was organized, in a way; but then scattered, too, if it's true that she accused the lawyer couple of trying to take her children--but then gave them $30k worth of jewelry to hang on to. I think like Snowbunny said, a person goes into survival mode when they feel so threatened. The way she was behaving could all be because of her marriage trouble and feeling afraid.

Maybe we could get a nurse or health professional sleuther to weigh in on the possibility of a head injury causing strange behavior?

 

[Melodie]

This thought has been occurring to me from time to time, too. It's bothersome that the only people reporting strange behavior are MP and the lawyer couple at the lake. Why did no one else notice?

It does sound like she was organized, in a way; but then scattered, too, if it's true that she accused the lawyer couple of trying to take her children--but then gave them $30k worth of jewelry to hang on to. I think like Snowbunny said, a person goes into survival mode when they feel so threatened. The way she was behaving could all be because of her marriage trouble and feeling afraid.

Maybe we could get a nurse or health professional sleuther to weigh in on the possibility of a head injury causing strange behavior?

Well, I am a Registered Nurse (15 yrs), but I am not verified as such. I would not think that a head injury would cause paranoia or delusions. Not really any of the behavior discussed in regard to Gail. A head injury could cause physical symptoms such as headache, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, drowsiness, blurry vision or other effects to vision. It's possible that it could cause some confusion or mild disorientation also.

I will add that some people who have had very severe head injuries involving a long recovery process might experience other long term problems such as seizures, memory loss and maybe some personality/mood changes or even possibly psychological symptoms such as some have reported with Gail. But, I don't think that would apply in this case.

 

[BeanE]

I'm almost certain he said "psychiatrist." If someone else recalls differently. please let me know. To be honest, I wrote down 'doctor,' but I knew he meant psychiatrist, because I thought to myself, 'That was about the time she lost her dad (?) and her brother.' So I figured that made sense. Jammer specifically, at one time during the conversation, mentioned Gail's brother's death.

AD said, "No I didn't know that."

Thanks, fran. I wasn't sure what kind of doctor it was.

So when her brother died was 2009, does that sound like about the right timeframe they were talking about?

 

[Columbo]

Well, I am a Registered Nurse (15 yrs), but I am not verified as such. I would not think that a head injury would cause paranoia or delusions. Not really any of the behavior discussed in regard to Gail. A head injury could cause physical symptoms such as headache, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, drowsiness, blurry vision or other effects to vision. It's possible that it could cause some confusion or mild disorientation also.

Thanks, Melodie--what you say is really helpful. After I posted that post, I was taking a break away from the computer, but started thinking almost exactly what you are saying: paranoia and delusions are a psychiatric (or psychological) condition and probably would not be caused by a head injury.

 

[BeanE]

This thought has been occurring to me from time to time, too. It's bothersome that the only people reporting strange behavior are MP and the lawyer couple at the lake. Why did no one else notice?

Well, I've seen where others noticed it and talked about it - LE, Diane, Susie button, Arlene. Some of these people talk about Gail's unusual behavior, and at the same time, say she was fine, but it's still fairly common for some people to feel a need to deny a person's emotional or mental issues.

Maybe we could get a nurse or health professional sleuther to weigh in on the possibility of a head injury causing strange behavior?

The brain hosts our emotions and personality in the frontal lobes, and when it's impacted by either illness or injury, the emotions and personality can go awry. The whole gamut of psychological problems can present when the brain is impacted.

The most simple brain injury is concussion, and that's what I had in mind in relation to Gail. It's pretty easy to get a concussion - impact causes the brain to "shake" and hit the skull.

There's a great body of work on the psychological symptoms associated with injuries to the brain, and it's easy to find lots of good references by googling.

In addition, many illnesses - even common ones - can cause psychological symptoms including paranoia and delusion, such as hypothyroidism and hypoglycemia. There's lots of info on the net available on that too.

 

[BeanE]

Well, I am a Registered Nurse (15 yrs), but I am not verified as such. I would not think that a head injury would cause paranoia or delusions. Not really any of the behavior discussed in regard to Gail. A head injury could cause physical symptoms such as headache, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, drowsiness, blurry vision or other effects to vision. It's possible that it could cause some confusion or mild disorientation also.

I will add that some people who have had very severe head injuries involving a long recovery process might experience other long term problems such as seizures, memory loss and maybe some personality/mood changes or even possibly psychological symptoms such as some have reported with Gail. But, I don't think that would apply in this case.

Wow. I didn't see your post before I wrote mine. I'm very surprised to see you say that.

Brain injury very definitely can cause a wide spectrum psychological symptoms, including paranoia and delusion, even from something as simple as concussion.

As I said in my post, there's a great body of work on this. You can read about it on some of the big medical sites like NIH.

 

[happy409]

Thanks, fran. I wasn't sure what kind of doctor it was.

So when her brother died was 2009, does that sound like about the right timeframe they were talking about?

I recall it being during that discussion, he did refer to a psychiatrist in Birmingham, and Jammer blatantly blurting the cause of death of GP's brother. I personally thought that was underhanded and cunning, nevertheless, still trying to dissect the 'best friend' theory.

 

[BeanE]

Here's some info from NIH - maybe that will help:

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/tbi/detail_tbi.htm

 

[Melodie]

Wow. I didn't see your post before I wrote mine. I'm very surprised to see you say that.

Brain injury very definitely can cause a wide spectrum psychological symptoms, including paranoia and delusion, even from something as simple as concussion.

As I said in my post, there's a great body of work on this. You can read about it on some of the big medical sites like NIH.

BeanE, it's just my opinion based on my years as a nurse. I am sure that there are cases where neuro patients have experienced every symptom in the book, ranging the whole spectrum, but the more severe ones you describe, in my opinion, would be the result of a much more serious injury. Gail had a black eye. I think it may be stretching that known fact quite a bit to her having a severe brain injury or bad concussion. In my opinion, if Gail had a brain injury serious enough for her to experience those symptoms, due to it, others around her would have clearly noticed this and would have sought medical care for her immediately. It is further my opinion that any possible psychological symptoms Gail may have been experiencing were the result of the tremendous amount of stress, emotional distress, anxiety, fear and possible sleep-deprivation she was enduring during the days before she disappeared. This is all my personal opinion. You may disregard if you like.

 

[Pearl*]

I'm almost certain he said "psychiatrist." If someone else recalls differently. please let me know.

I thought he used both words back to back as if he weren't sure (psychologist/psychiatrist), and then changed to the word "doctor" since it was a word he could be sure of. I remember for sure that he fumbled.

 

[BeanE]

BeanE, it's just my opinion based on my years as a nurse. I am sure that there are cases where neuro patients have experienced every symptom in the book, ranging the whole spectrum, but the more severe ones you describe, in my opinion, would be the result of a much more serious injury. Gail had a black eye. I think it may be stretching that known fact quite a bit to her having a severe brain injury or bad concussion. In my opinion, if Gail had a brain injury serious enough for her to experience those symptoms, due to it, others around her would have clearly noticed this and would have sought medical care for her immediately. It is further my opinion that any possible psychological symptoms Gail may have been experiencing were the result of the tremendous amount of stress, emotional distress, anxiety, fear and possible sleep-deprivation she was enduring during the days before she disappeared. This is all my personal opinion. You may disregard if you like.

Okay. I was exploring the theory that Matt may have been physically abusing her, clocked her in the eye, and her head hit a wall, giving her a concussion.

I agree it's a stretch that with only one report of one black eye, and Arlene saying Gail was her normal self that weekend, that she was physically abused and ended up with a concussion that caused the paranoia.

I'm going down the wrong path.

 

[Snowbunny]

We don't know what Matt has put Gail through prior to her going missing. SB mentioned that Gail had a blackeye two weeks prior to her going missing and Arlene has mentioned that there was an incident where Matt broke the bedroom door down going after her in November 2010 if I remember correctly so it sounds to me like Gail endured some physical altercations here. Arlene has also mentioned in interviews that Matt belittled Gail often and that could put her in a deep depression, along with losing her job etc. One can only imagine what this poor lady's state of mind was. And then add to the fact that she felt like someone was following her and Arlene confirmed that she saw said vehicle in the neighborhood. I lost close to 50 lbs in 30 days because I was so shock up. I couldn't eat or sleep, but I never lost my facalities. There were times my lips and finger tips would go numb or tingle because I was having a panick attack or became anxious because of things that were happening that scared the heck out of me. When I was scared I had real reason to be because there was always proof that it happened. I finally turned my fear into anger and my anger into motivation to stand up and fight back and when I did I gained control. Not everyone is that lucky. My heart goes out to Gail and anyone who has gone through this.

 

[Sleuthy1]

This thought has been occurring to me from time to time, too. It's bothersome that the only people reporting strange behavior are MP and the lawyer couple at the lake. Why did no one else notice?

It does sound like she was organized, in a way; but then scattered, too, if it's true that she accused the lawyer couple of trying to take her children--but then gave them $30k worth of jewelry to hang on to. I think like Snowbunny said, a person goes into survival mode when they feel so threatened. The way she was behaving could all be because of her marriage trouble and feeling afraid.

Maybe we could get a nurse or health professional sleuther to weigh in on the possibility of a head injury causing strange behavior?

BBM
:twocents:Sorry...I cannot speak to that injury as I was not there to examine GP post injury to her eye(however the injury may have occurred). Depending on the extent of the blow which caused the injury....how it occurred.....IF she lost consciousness at all...even if for seconds...if post injury there was any vision problems....if her pupils were ERTL (equal & react to light)...all those questions would have to be answered BEFORE ANYONE could say if the injury to her eye (head) could have caused odd behaviors post concussion... If there was a concussion. Sorry...I couldn't be more of a help to you...just my as an RN
Sleuthy1:twocents:
You all might find this helpful:
[ame="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_eye"]Black eye - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia@@AMEPARAM@@/wiki/File:Blackeye.JPG" class="image"><img alt="" src="http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/55/Blackeye.JPG/230px-Blackeye.JPG"@@AMEPARAM@@commons/thumb/5/55/Blackeye.JPG/230px-Blackeye.JPG[/ame]

 

[glorias]

BeanE, it's just my opinion based on my years as a nurse. I am sure that there are cases where neuro patients have experienced every symptom in the book, ranging the whole spectrum, but the more severe ones you describe, in my opinion, would be the result of a much more serious injury. Gail had a black eye. I think it may be stretching that known fact quite a bit to her having a severe brain injury or bad concussion. In my opinion, if Gail had a brain injury serious enough for her to experience those symptoms, due to it, others around her would have clearly noticed this and would have sought medical care for her immediately. It is further my opinion that any possible psychological symptoms Gail may have been experiencing were the result of the tremendous amount of stress, emotional distress, anxiety, fear and possible sleep-deprivation she was enduring during the days before she disappeared. This is all my personal opinion. You may disregard if you like.

In my very limited experience, what you have said rings very true. I'm a medical transcriptionist, i.e. no medical training at all except on how to spell them darn words! For a couple of years, I've done a lot of reports for a large VA hospital, mostly acute care (ER) and psychology departments. Thus far I have never seen anyone who had a physical injury that caused the things that have been ascribed to Gail UNLESS there were other symptoms such as the ones you listed earlier, like nausea.

I also have noticed that the common, so-called layman's ideas of what psychological illnesses are vary greatly from what the reality of psychological issues are. If they say "Gail was paranoid" do they mean in the common parlance or do they mean clinically paranoid and should have been diagnosed as such? When someone says "psychological break," what do they mean? Do they have training in psychology such that they could recognize a real break from reality, or are they just assuming?

 

[Pearl*]

It was SOMEONE in GP's family...KN's wife posted her comments on the BGHN FB page a few times. Many ppl who visited BGHN suggested contacting National MSM ....that list included NG and many more...KN's wife took issue with the suggestions to get in touch with Nancy Grace's ppl.The BGHN site admin got several emails from visitors inquiring why the family (aka KN's wife) had a problem with National MSM attention, especially Nancy Grace? KN's wife demanded that the BGHN admin ONLY allow prayers from visitors and was asked to delete anything else that was posted by visitors to the BGHN site. When the admin, respectfully said they would not do this, but would keep a close eye on the page. The BGHN admin assured KN & his wife that the admin would make sure that all inappropriate comments (ie: those related to the children or outright MP bashing) would be "hidden or deleted" from the general public (and they were and still are). That was not good enough for them. KN demanded that the BGHN FB site either be shut down or turned over to his wife to admin alone... and thus the "rift" between "the family" and the BGHN FB page began and continues to this day.

I for one don't have any problem with the way the BGHN FB site is run. The moderators here will tell us all....It's not an easy task. It is a place for prayers and good wishes, it is informational (current MSM audio/video/print) ,news about Event information, search information, information for other people gone missing in Tennessee ... Reward Fund information etc.

[snip]

DN is the only person in GP's family speaking to the MSM. MY REAL FEAR IS THAT THIS CASE WILL GO "COLD" and then it may be too late for the family to entice the MSM to cover the "COLD CASE", especially if they have turned down or cancelled interviews previously. Am I wrong? I look forward to ev1's comments.

Sleuthy, I'm going to take you at your word on that last sentence and hope it's okay to be honest.

I respectfully disagree with the first bolded portion. When I went through the couple weeks of posting to find the ones I paraphrased in an attempt to answer JBean's question, I was horrified at all I found. Ranting, profanity, scolding, shaming the community...it really defies any description I can pull from my brain at the moment. Posts are back to back to back to back and after a while paint the picture of a fanatic.

This is a conservative, small-town, mostly religious community, that is, for the most part, pleasantly boring. These tactics aren't going to fly up here among the masses IMO. This morning's post, comparing last night's gathering of 13 to the Last Supper made my mouth drop open.

Even with the explanation kindly given above, regarding the family rift, the comments I paraphrased in my other post were so over the top that I almost felt like I was doing something wrong in typing it. That's when I added the line, "Just the facts." I really believe that if those comments were posted on this forum, the poster might be moderated right out of here, and I found myself concerned about being banned as I typed my paraphrase--then re-reading to assure myself I was being accurate and adding no thoughts that weren't really there.

He's lost credibility. Plain and simple.