TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #6

[Sleuthy1]

BeanE, it's just my opinion based on my years as a nurse. I am sure that there are cases where neuro patients have experienced every symptom in the book, ranging the whole spectrum, but the more severe ones you describe, in my opinion, would be the result of a much more serious injury. Gail had a black eye. I think it may be stretching that known fact quite a bit to her having a severe brain injury or bad concussion. In my opinion, if Gail had a brain injury serious enough for her to experience those symptoms, due to it, others around her would have clearly noticed this and would have sought medical care for her immediately. It is further my opinion that any possible psychological symptoms Gail may have been experiencing were the result of the tremendous amount of stress, emotional distress, anxiety, fear and possible sleep-deprivation she was enduring during the days before she disappeared. This is all my personal opinion. You may disregard if you like.

I concur with Melodie....and I am verified on WS as an RN. I have been an RN since 1979. I agree with you Melodie 100%

 

[hollyblue]

Well, I am a Registered Nurse (15 yrs), but I am not verified as such. I would not think that a head injury would cause paranoia or delusions. Not really any of the behavior discussed in regard to Gail. A head injury could cause physical symptoms such as headache, dizziness, nausea, vomiting, drowsiness, blurry vision or other effects to vision. It's possible that it could cause some confusion or mild disorientation also.

I will add that some people who have had very severe head injuries involving a long recovery process might experience other long term problems such as seizures, memory loss and maybe some personality/mood changes or even possibly psychological symptoms such as some have reported with Gail. But, I don't think that would apply in this case.

Thanks for your input. I had ask Sleuthy1 because I knew she was in the medical field and some had posted speculations on the eye injury. I tend to agree with your statement that the fears GP was having are related to her stress or stressors being put on her.

To jump off from that thought. Would it be possible for the 4 weeks of GP's increasing fears to have been perpetuated by a well organized plan put in place (gas lighting)? If MP wanted to prove she was unstable and she had been seeing someone for depression and had started meds, then what better advantage than to take that opportunity to "turn it up a bit". Curious when GP started seeking help and how it may coincide with TH's separation in February. Also curious if all these fears of being followed took place only on the week-ends or did she express these fears to Diane, Susie or Arlene any other times? The car going by the house, stopping, etc had to occur when GP was at home. ??

 

[hollyblue]

Here's some info from NIH - maybe that will help:

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/tbi/detail_tbi.htm

With all due respect Bean, this link is regarding traumatic brain injuries and not just concussions.

http://www.wisportsconcussion.org/images/Concussion_Grading_Scale_with_normal_ranges.pdf

 

[Montjoy]

Maybe we could get a nurse or health professional sleuther to weigh in on the possibility of a head injury causing strange behavior?

With respect, and begging this thread to allow a moment of comic relief, I have to say that I'm tempted to consign this sort of theory to the 'struck by lightning' can, except in those cartoon universes where a person could get amnesia, or a personality change (I'm sure this happened in the Flintstones), by being bonked in the head...and in most cases, remarkably, they could be cured by a similar bonk to the head, deliberate or accidental.

But again, with respect, should one look into this 'struck by lightning' can -- I would tend to think that if Gail disappeared at her own hands because of a recent traumatic neurological event, that she would likely have been found by now. Not 'definitely' found, but...regardless, the 'bonked in the head' theory doesn't really provide many investigative leads for finding Gail.

 

[Sleuthy1]

Sleuthy, I'm going to take you at your word on that last sentence and hope it's okay to be honest.

I respectfully disagree with the first bolded portion. When I went through the couple weeks of posting to find the ones I paraphrased in an attempt to answer JBean's question, I was horrified at all I found. Ranting, profanity, scolding, shaming the community...it really defies any description I can pull from my brain at the moment. Posts are back to back to back to back and after a while paint the picture of a fanatic.

This is a conservative, small-town, mostly religious community, that is, for the most part, pleasantly boring. These tactics aren't going to fly up here among the masses IMO. This morning's post, comparing last night's gathering of 13 to the Last Supper made my mouth drop open.

Even with the explanation kindly given above, regarding the family rift, the comments I paraphrased in my other post were so over the top that I almost felt like I was doing something wrong in typing it. That's when I added the line, "Just the facts." I really believe that if those comments were posted on this forum, the poster might be moderated right out of here, and I found myself concerned about being banned as I typed my paraphrase--then re-reading to assure myself I was being accurate and adding no thoughts that weren't really there.

He's lost credibility. Plain and simple.

:twocents:I am sorry you feel that way about the BGHN site and CB. He has worked very hard and I am sure he is tired and frustrated. FYI...the way I read the "last supper" comment was....he and others were making comments back and forth saying that small groups of people in a gathering are not such a bad thing...the last super had 12 apostles and Jesus....another very small group but had a great deal of meaning and strength behind their small numbers.....and although this last turnout (scheduled on a holiday weekend AGAIN)was somewhat smaller than expected....he was still very grateful for the people that did make it to the Candlelight Vigil and Balloon release yesterday.
IMO....you are over analyzing what was written on the BGHN site. CB does get a bit carried away, and sometimes gets a little wordier (is that even a word?) than I would like but, ...he keeps it clean and I believe he has earned the right to be able to comment ... They (BGHN crew) want ev1 to feel they can comment with regard to GP's disappearance... (in the manner in which I have previously posted). I can share with you that there are many visitors who have bashed the BGHN crew over there and those commenters have used profanity with regard to both the family and BGHN crew.....and the admin struggles to keep on top of the comments ... and deletes or hides all those remarks that are deemed inappropriate or troublesome. But, the admin is only one person, and sometimes certain comments are not caught immediately...but they are caught and dealt with asap.:twocents:

 

[Melodie]

Thanks for your input. I had ask Sleuthy1 because I knew she was in the medical field and some had posted speculations on the eye injury. I tend to agree with your statement that the fears GP was having are related to her stress or stressors being put on her.

Thank you, I really appreciate that. I'm a little regretful now, that I did answer, lol. I just saw it posted twice and no one else had responded so I thought maybe I could help. This case is so frustrating because there is so little to go on. No hard feelings toward anyone. I think everyone is just looking for some answer. I wish we could figure it out. Where is Gail?

 

[happy409]

Sleuthy, I'm going to take you at your word on that last sentence and hope it's okay to be honest.

I respectfully disagree with the first bolded portion. When I went through the couple weeks of posting to find the ones I paraphrased in an attempt to answer JBean's question, I was horrified at all I found. Ranting, profanity, scolding, shaming the community...it really defies any description I can pull from my brain at the moment. Posts are back to back to back to back and after a while paint the picture of a fanatic.

This is a conservative, small-town, mostly religious community, that is, for the most part, pleasantly boring. These tactics aren't going to fly up here among the masses IMO. This morning's post, comparing last night's gathering of 13 to the Last Supper made my mouth drop open.

Even with the explanation kindly given above, regarding the family rift, the comments I paraphrased in my other post were so over the top that I almost felt like I was doing something wrong in typing it. That's when I added the line, "Just the facts." I really believe that if those comments were posted on this forum, the poster might be moderated right out of here, and I found myself concerned about being banned as I typed my paraphrase--then re-reading to assure myself I was being accurate and adding no thoughts that weren't really there.

He's lost credibility. Plain and simple.

It's a shame, you cannot 'guilt' people into helping. I think a lot more people would help if not pushed to take sides. I hope if they do another they can report it to the MSM but not have them film it. Many have already seen what the media can do (e.g., CC, twist words, use the ones they want, not other's, etc.) and no one needs that. Many residents are high profile community members and just can't take the chance of being made a fool of, and unfortunately, MSM has done just that. IMHO

 

[Pearl*]

He has worked very hard and I am sure he is tired and frustrated.

On this point, I wholeheartedly agree.

But, the admin is only one person, and sometimes certain comments are not caught immediately...but they are caught and dealt with asap.

And I definitely respect the efforts of admin. for all the work they do each day to help find Gail.

 

[happy409]

:twocents:I am sorry you feel that way about the BGHN site and CB. He has worked very hard and I am sure he is tired and frustrated. FYI...the way I read the "last supper" comment was....he and others were making comments back and forth saying that small groups of people in a gathering are not such a bad thing...the last super had 12 apostles and Jesus....another very small group but had a great deal of meaning and strength behind their small numbers.....and although this last turnout (scheduled on a holiday weekend AGAIN)was somewhat smaller than expected....he was still very grateful for the people that did make it to the Candlelight Vigil and Balloon release yesterday.
IMO....you are over analyzing what was written on the BGHN site. CB does get a bit carried away, and sometimes gets a little wordier (is that even a word?) than I woud like but, ...he keeps it clean and I believe he has earned the right to be able to comment ... They (BGHN crew) want ev1 to feel to comment with regard to GP's disappearance... in the manner in which I have previously posted). I can share with you that there are many visitors who have bashed the BGHN crew over there and those commenters have used profanity with regard to both the family and BGHN crew.....and the admin struggles to keep on top of the comments ... and deletes or hides all those remarks that are deemed inappropriate or troublesome. But, the admin is only one person, and sometimes certain comments are not caught immediately...but they are caught and dealt with asap.:twocents:

I can see if one knows CB it could come across the way you stated, his heart is in the right place, one can assume. But, MOST do not, he does get on a soapbox, he is frustrated, and wishes the entire community would come in masses to help. He usually apologizes later for it, hopefully he'll take a breath and not post something he will feel the need to downplay or apologize for later, or all of his efforts I am afraid may be for nothing. JMHO

 

[glorias]

Thank you, I really appreciate that. I'm a little regretful now, that I did answer, lol. I just saw it posted twice and no one else had responded so I thought maybe I could help. This case is so frustrating because there is so little to go on. No hard feelings toward anyone. I think everyone is just looking for some answer. I wish we could figure it out. Where is Gail?

You shouldn't be regretful at all. We're all in this together and this is a group effort, so we should be trying hard to work together, which I think most of us do. And I think it's great we have multiple posters here with medical experience -- I personally can't think of anyone better to answer a medical question than a nurse, and we have two!

 

[ThoughtFox]

It's a shame, you cannot 'guilt' people into helping. I think a lot more people would help if not pushed to take sides. I hope if they do another they can report it to the MSM but not have them film it. Many have already seen what the media can do (e.g., CC, twist words, use the ones they want, not other's, etc.) and no one needs that. Many residents are high profile community members and just can't take the chance of being made a fool of, and unfortunately, MSM has done just that. IMHO

I agree and it doesn't impress those of us off the mountain either. People do what they can. I certainly can't drive across the county every day searching for Gail as I have other responsibilities.

But what I can do is post theories and help keep our news links up to date, and while that might not seem important to certain people, things like that do keep a victim's name out here on the internet.

Also, this is the South, and while people have so much compassion for this missing woman, they don't take kindly to having the gauntlet thrown down about every little thing. It just won't work. People don't want to fight, and they certainly don't want their churches insulted as "do-nothing."

 

[believe09]

I am still trying to catch up-I think I am in Sleuthy's corner regarding MP's attorney applying spin to the situation with the childrens counselor or counseling sessions. We suspect he did with the whole "Well we were swabbing the family for DNA but the restraining order made me re think my clients participation..." I mean really.

 

[believe09]

Ah, but wouldn't you agree that just because we cannot hear their voices does not mean they are not speaking.

:rocker:

I think that Gail's immediate family only should be in control of media interviews and requests for help. And facebook pages and vigils etc. If family doesnt want Clive to represent them, they have the right to request to be disassociated from him and his attempts. JMVHO.

Sure it seems counterintuitive not to get her out there, but we dont know what national media the family may have been working with currently and we do not know what parameters the family has been given by LE.

If you have ever had a family member go missing, you know how completely out of control and helpless you feel. Well meaning friends and strangers cannot take whatever small amount of control you DO have away by making decisions on major or minor things. :twocents:

 

[Melodie]

It is my opinion that any possible psychological symptoms Gail may have been experiencing were the result of the tremendous amount of stress, emotional distress, anxiety, fear and possible sleep-deprivation she was enduring during the days before she disappeared.

I have been thinking more about some of our discussion here yesterday. So I quoted myself, snipped and bolded something I haven't seen discussed but could be important when discussing the matter of Gail's behavior in the days and weeks before she disappeared. Forgive me if it has been discussed, but I have not seen it.

"Sleep deprivation". I haven't seen any discussion regarding the amount of or possible lack of sleep Gail was getting. Sleep deprivation can absolutely lead to psychological issues. In the hospital, we tell patients all the time, "If you want to get some sleep, you're in the wrong place!" There is also a condition in the hospital known as "ICU Psychosis". I won't go into long definitions, but suffice it to say, when a person doesn't get enough sleep or if deep/REM sleep is continually denied and interrupted, the person can experience psychosis. Could that include paranoia, delusions and other odd behavior, such as appearing flat *&$#@# up? Absolutely! It can even lead into more serious psychological symptoms such as hallucinations. Now, medical people with hospital experience can definitely confirm this without a doubt, but there have been many studies on this, so you can research it, too.

I have to wonder if Gail was losing sleep. Some of her behavior seems a little manic and she was driving all over the place including, I believe, 2 trips to the lake house in AL and back in a relatively short period of time. She was tending to the children during all of this, which most mothers know can be exhausting, even at their age. She seemed to be making lots of plans and was upset about what was going on in her marriage. Most of us have experienced some period of emotional distress where your mind is racing with constant thoughts and it is very difficult to fall asleep, to stay asleep and to sleep deeply. You will also develop an increasing sleep deficit over time, which can accelerate the symptoms. So it can just get worse and worse with each day while it continues. If Gail seemed to any of the people around her during this time to be a little "crazy", I think that sleep deprivation, if not the main cause, certainly could have contributed. Just a thought I had. Just my opinion as a possibility. :twocents:

 

[Oriah]

:rocker:

I think that Gail's immediate family only should be in control of media interviews and requests for help. And facebook pages and vigils etc. If family doesnt want Clive to represent them, they have the right to request to be disassociated from him and his attempts. JMVHO.

Sure it seems counterintuitive not to get her out there, but we dont know what national media the family may have been working with currently and we do not know what parameters the family has been given by LE.

If you have ever had a family member go missing, you know how completely out of control and helpless you feel. Well meaning friends and strangers cannot take whatever small amount of control you DO have away by making decisions on major or minor things. :twocents:

BBM:

ITA agree, believe09.

Gosh, what a difficult line to draw when immediate family might include marriage, children, in-laws, etc.

 

[Pearl*]

If you have ever had a family member go missing, you know how completely out of control and helpless you feel. Well meaning friends and strangers cannot take whatever small amount of control you DO have away by making decisions on major or minor things. :twocents:

[bbm]

I think this is huge. And each time the family releases any type of statement, I seem to have a different interpretation than the vocal crowd does.

I've heard all my life that it's impossible to talk and listen at the same time, and I think that applies here.

Besides the radical statements I read yesterday, to the effect that the volunteers have chosen to take control from the family and proceed in whatever manner they see fit, I've also read, time and time again, statements like, "I don't think the family has ever requested we not ___________________." [fill in the blank]

And I'm left wondering how silence translates to, "Yes, that's what I want." What if they are expressing gratitude rather than approval, by withholding criticism?

The current statement asks for help in keeping eyes and ears open and calling in tips to the Sheriff's Department. I see nothing else. Zero. No request for volunteer search efforts. No request even for a "community" voice at all. I really believe that if they wanted more, they would ask for more. It's just not there.

I know that one setting on fb blocks public posts, to instead leave it for whatever admin chooses to post, be it announcements, good wishes, prayers or whatever. I think this is the stated intent of the page. Good wishes can be sent through the private messaging fb system as well.

Removing abrasive posts is a judgment call likely to alienate the person who posted the edited or removed comment. That makes for a very difficult bind. Therefore, one solution would be to dis-allow public posting.

In nearly all missing person cases I can think of, one or two images come to mind when I think of the case. Usually it's the image of certain family members on the TV screen, with tearful, breaking voices of overwhelming pain.

I think the family should have ultimate control over the media message because that is the image people are going to carry around with them as they go through their daily lives. That's where I think a PR person might be invaluable at this stage, to help the family choose and then take the role of being that voice. I don't think a PR person would typically be needed, but in this case, it appears to me that the family has been stripped of control, and it may take an authoritative voice in order to regain that.

In the beginning of the case, the image I carried around in my mind was the picture and voice of Diane's tearful plea in the parking lot with those flyers. It was a heartbreaking image that made me feel her pain. It encouraged me to do ANYTHING I could possibly do to help this dear family.

That image has now been usurped. I don't think of it at all without a deliberate effort. Instead, the image I have is that of a loud, demanding critic. This image has appeared over and over in various media and has overtaken the image of a very desperate and pleaful Diane. I see a fb page that has become essentially a radical spam page on many days. I feel angry and judged, rather than encouraged, although my concern has not gone away.

I know that many in the community are offended, because I've heard some of the comments. People think it's just plain "weird" since he had no association with the family at all before this began. Obviously, those comments aren't going to be posted on fb, because it's not an anonymous forum! Again, silence does not always translate to approval. Yes, I see some "ata boy" comments on there, but is anybody listening to the overwhelming majority who aren't saying anything?

If the family wants to choose the image people are going to associate with Gail, I think they need to hurry, because the decision is being made by default right now and will be difficult to change if allowed to go on too long. And if their choice is silence, I think that's their right.

Silence can be deafening when people stop talking long enough to listen.

 

[Oriah]

Respectfully snipped:

<And if their choice is silence, I think that's their right.
Silence can be deafening when people stop talking long enough to listen. >

ITA agree, Pearl.

And also, I'd like to reiterate that silence (IMVHO) does not necessarily equate to improper handling of a missing persons case.

Gail, there are many people keeping their eyes and ears open for you without intrusion, in hope that you are safe.

 

[Sleuthy1]

Respectfully snipped:

<And if their choice is silence, I think that's their right.
Silence can be deafening when people stop talking long enough to listen. >

ITA agree, Pearl.

And also, I'd like to reiterate that silence (IMVHO) does not necessarily equate to improper handling of a missing persons case.

Gail, there are many people keeping their eyes and ears open for you without intrusion, in hope that you are safe.

:happy4th::fireworks:

:twocents:The missing person's family has a "choice" to make ....I am with you on that. Nobody should be forced to act in any one certain way. That being said....nobody should ever be held to their original point of view either. People should be entitled to change their opinions as they compile additional factual information. My question would be ... Don't GP's friends have a "choice" as well? They too can "choose" to be vocal or be silent. Some have chosen to be more vocal than others....some still remain silent....that is their choice. Yes...I believe the family has a right to be "silent" when and IF they choose. BUT, I also believe that GP's friends have rights too. I think if LE could make charges stick, with regard to "interference with an ongoing missing persons investigation" they would have charged someone by now. :twocents:JMOHO. Who knows why the detective in charge of this case for SMPD is now walking the "beat" ...on patrol? I don't know what SMPD's reasoning behind this was...therefore my thoughts would only be speculation.

:twocents:We all have freedom of speech in this country....and what a day to remember that! JMOHO:twocents: It has crossed my mind...that maybe the "family" has been quiet (especially in the MSM), because they feel as though they might ....let's say..."rub someone the wrong way", so the less said the better in the longrun (right now anyway).

:twocents:JMOHO Maybe the "family" is quietly grateful to all those "ruffling" MP's feathers abit" ... for "shaking the bushes to see what comes flying out"....so to speak. Maybe the "family" feels as though they cannot do that("ruffle feathers and shake bushes") without alienating MP and thus losing any chances they would have to see their nephew and niece in the future (I am referring to GP's side of the family of course). Afterall, It is my understanding that DN & KN have stated that ~ the very few visits they have been fortunate enough to get with the children have always been supervised (monitored) by someone on MP's side of the family. ~ This seems a strange way to treat your sister and brother in law with regard to visiting their own nephew and niece. They were not estranged from DN & KN at all. They adore their aunt and uncle. Up until GP went missing they have had a wonderful relationship with the children. Am I wrong? Do any of you find this behavior by MP strange? If this is how GP's side of the family is being treated by MP and his side (the Palmgren's), then how might MP REACT to GP's side (the Nowacki's) of the family, IF they spoke a "hint" of negativity towards MP? Just saying! JMOHO :twocents:

:twocents:Just saying....food for thought and JMOHO.:usa:

 

[confused]

To put it simply, I pretty much disagree with everything you said. We are all intitled to our own opinions.

:happy4th::fireworks:

:twocents:The missing person's family has a "choice" to make ....I am with you on that. Nobody should be forced to act in any one certain way. That being said....nobody should ever be held to their original point of view either. People should be entitled to change their opinions as they compile additional factual information. My question would be ... Don't GP's friends have a "choice" as well? They too can "choose" to be vocal or be silent. Some have chosen to be more vocal than others....some still remain silent....that is their choice. Yes...I believe the family has a right to be "silent" when and IF they choose. BUT, I also believe that GP's friends have rights too. I think if LE could make charges stick, with regard to "interference with an ongoing missing persons investigation" they would have charged someone by now. :twocents:JMOHO. Who knows why the detective in charge of this case for SMPD is now walking the "beat" ...on patrol? I don't know what SMPD's reasoning behind this was...therefore my thoughts would only be speculation.

:twocents:We all have freedom of speech in this country....and what a day to remember that! JMOHO:twocents: It has crossed my mind...that maybe the "family" has been quiet (especially in the MSM), because they feel as though they might ....let's say..."rub someone the wrong way", so the less said the better in the longrun (right now anyway).

:twocents:JMOHO Maybe the "family" is quietly grateful to all those "ruffling" MP's feathers abit" ... for "shaking the bushes to see what comes flying out"....so to speak. Maybe the "family" feels as though they cannot do that("ruffle feathers and shake bushes") without alienating MP and thus losing any chances they would have to see their nephew and niece in the future (I am referring to GP's side of the family of course). Afterall, It is my understanding that DN & KN have stated that ~ the very few visits they have been fortunate enough to get with the children have always been supervised (monitored) by someone on MP's side of the family. ~ This seems a strange way to treat your sister and brother in law with regard to visiting their own nephew and niece. They were not estranged from DN & KN at all. They adore their aunt and uncle. Up until GP went missing they have had a wonderful relationship with the children. Am I wrong? Do any of you find this behavior by MP strange? If this is how GP's side of the family is being treated by MP and his side (the Palmgren's), then how might MP REACT to GP's side (the Nowacki's) of the family, IF they spoke a "hint" of negativity towards MP? Just saying! JMOHO :twocents:

:twocents:Just saying....food for thought and JMOHO.:usa:

 

[Pearl*]

The missing person's family has a "choice" to make [snip] Don't GP's friends have a "choice" as well? They too can "choose" to be vocal or be silent. Some have chosen to be more vocal than others....some still remain silent....that is their choice. Yes...I believe the family has a right to be "silent" when and IF they choose. BUT, I also believe that GP's friends have rights too. [snip] We all have freedom of speech in this country.

:thud:

Maybe the "family" is ...[snip] Maybe the "family" feels ...[snip]

Maybe so. Not sure. They are quiet.


OKAY! Back to business? Where's Gail? Personally, I think we are straining hard to make the mental instability theory stick. I love Montjoy's "bonk in the head" post! I think the mental instability claim has about the same chance as the bonk in the head. JMO.