TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #9

[Pearl*]

I absolutely agree she was not on Adderall in high school, but that doesn't mean she wasn't diagnosed with ADHD in my opinion. Gail could have been on other drugs prior to Adderall or on no drug therapy at all. Drug therapy began in the late 1980s, not Adderall specifically of course, but stimulants. In 1980, the DSM-III officially adopted the term ADHD rather than the previously-used term "hyperkenetic" and noted that drugs which were stimulants were useful in treatment.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter3/sec4.html

[bbm]

I absolutely agree that she could have had ADD, although we now know she could not have been taking Adderall at that time, but it seems to be getting clearer that the only person saying she had ADD isn't too clear on the details.

If nobody except AD is claiming the ADD diagnosis, then I doubt she had it. Somebody else in her life surely would have known about it. What about people who knew her when she was in high school, for instance?

 

[JBean]

Personally I think Arlene D was guarded at first in an effort to protect some aspects of Gail's life. As more information was revealed, she may have been attempting to clarify and it may come across as though she is impeaching herself .

ETA: For example I know a person that is currently depressed, and understandably so. I would not classify him as having any mental issues but rather going through an episode of expected depression. But I also know people with clinical depression that are depressed in general not for a specific reason.
I do not put them in the same category.
I would probably describe the former person as mentally stable and if pressed about anti-d's might clarify by saying he is a little depressed due to job loss or whatever. I don't think I would be impeaching my first statement but rather clarifying it.

 

[Irish_Eyes]

Well, the problem is we have no idea if it's a "cocktail" at all. No one knows which med she was taking or for what reason, only that she was at some point prescribed the meds on that list.

AD has said in interviews that in our society many people are depressed and she IMHO doesn't consider it a mental health problem. Here are relevant parts of the Jammer interview as an example:



and later:



So I don't think her story has changed in this specific regard. She seems to just disagree that depression is a mental illness.

Yes and no. One can be depressed and NOT be mentally ill. Not all depression is chronic. Being depressed about the breakup of your marriage would not seem unusual even for a person in good overall health. AD says I think maybe my friend was depressed about certain things, but she wasn't mentally ill. Makes sense to me.

 

[RavenTrue]

[bbm]

I absolutely agree that she could have had ADD, although we now know she could not have been taking Adderall at that time, but it seems to be getting clearer that the only person saying she had ADD isn't too clear on the details.

Seriously, the ADD has nothing to do with death...just sayin.

If nobody except AD is claiming the ADD diagnosis, then I doubt she had it. Somebody else in her life surely would have known about it. What about people who knew her when she was in high school, for instance..friends?

Have not been on WS for some time due to RL,,had a baby: 8.1 pounds, eek!
However, depressed or not. Receiving meds for same makes NO difference to my mind, NO alibi for dear hubby who, of course, had a gf. Much younger gf. Am not surprised that this has not been solved except for the fact of the bright RED Jeep. Prayers to Gail's children, family and friends.

My thought is that this was well-planned and financially benficial, or so HE thought. With he, and gf's unemployment they might think again. Best part!
I wish to find that RED Jeep (they sold very little of that model).

She must be found, and justice be done. Still thinking of Gail...:rocker:

 

[mayqueen]

The point is that in AD first statements she claimed that there was no way the GP had any mental issues at all .... or she was the queen of england. Well there is issues not sure what kind at this point, Not enough information. But that is a pretty powerful cocktail of drugs. When Jammer in the the first interview asked her about gails mental health she had no clue as to medication or what doctors she was seeing... NOw she knows everything including why she was taking them for. How does she know have the new information did she talk to GAil?

The list of drugs I'm currently, actively taking would put Gail's to shame, LOL. And if you saw a list of all the drugs I've been prescribed in the last year, including the ones I've discontinued - hoo boy.

The meds named in the court docs are pretty basic, IMO. I wouldn't call it a "powerful cocktail". She recently lost a parent as well as a sibling, and her marriage was crumbling. Depression, anxiety and sleeplessness in her situation would be... well, pretty normal.

Really though, as others have said, we have no idea which drugs she was actually taking (if any). I don't think we can look at that list and draw any firm conclusions about Gail's mental health. :twocents:

ETA: Congrats on the new addition, Raven!

 

[Sleuthy1]

I'm so confused...

:twocents::twocents: Got me BeanE... My bad ...I guess I misread Pearls question...:loser:I had ADD on the brain.:crazy::waitasec: What I meant to say was that Gail told AD that she (Gail) was diagnosed in high school with ADD, but did not go on meds until college. AD did not say Gail was on Adderall in high school (Adderall was not her first medication for ADD), but she was on ADD meds from college days until she went missing. At some point she changed to Adderall. Sorry for the confusion. I appreciate you pointing out my error.:innocent:

 

[hollyblue]

I absolutely agree she was not on Adderall in high school, but that doesn't mean she wasn't diagnosed with ADHD in my opinion. Gail could have been on other drugs prior to Adderall or on no drug therapy at all.

Drug therapy began in the late 1980s, not Adderall specifically of course, but stimulants. In 1980, the DSM-III officially adopted the term ADHD rather than the previously-used term "hyperkenetic" and noted that drugs which were stimulants were useful in treatment.

http://www.surgeongeneral.gov/library/mentalhealth/chapter3/sec4.html

Was'nt an early drug Ritalin? I have a friend who's son was taking it in the late 80" or early 90's. iirc

 

[Sleuthy1]

Was'nt an early drug Ritalin? I have a friend who's son was taking it in the late 80" or early 90's. iirc

Yes...you are correct. Ritalin was an early treatment for ADD/ADHD.

Other Medications used to treat ADD/ADHD are as follows:
Trade Name (Generic name)

Adderall (amphetamine; dextroamphetamine)
Adderall XR (amphetamine; dextroamphetamine)
Concerta (methylphenidate)
Daytrana (methylphenidate)
Desoxyn (methamphetamine)
Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine)
Dextrostat (dextroamphetamine)
Focalin (dexmethylphenidate)
Focalin XR (dexmethylphenidate)
Metadate CD (methylphenidate)
Methylin (methylphenidate)
Ritalin (methylphenidate)
Ritalin SR (methylphenidate)
Ritalin LA (methylphenidate)
Strattera (atomoxitine HCL)
Vyvanse (lisdexamfetamine)

Some people respond to one kind of stimulant and not another.

 

[RavenTrue]

The list of drugs I'm currently, actively taking would put Gail's to shame, LOL. And if you saw a list of all the drugs I've been prescribed in the last year, including the ones I've discontinued - hoo boy.

The meds named in the court docs are pretty basic, IMO. I wouldn't call it a "powerful cocktail". She recently lost a parent as well as a sibling, and her marriage was crumbling. Depression, anxiety and sleeplessness in her situation would be... well, pretty normal.

Really though, as others have said, we have no idea which drugs she was actually taking (if any). I don't think we can look at that list and draw any firm conclusions about Gail's mental health. :twocents:

ETA: Congrats on the new addition, Raven!

Have been on anti-depress in my life once. So what? No longer, but do still take meds for anxiety, so? Am hoping that gf will break, and give up what she knows. I believe that. There is a huge pre-planned reason a bright RED Jeep has not been found. Maybe it's just me, but think he knew just where/when to 'make it so'. Think gf also knew/knows: that's why she's not speaking.

Just as you stated...lost my Mother, then only sibling (baby sis) the next year died. THEN found that my hubby was not who he claimed, and would not even get a job. Talk about stress! Yup, I took meds. Have no shame about that.

My question is..what does that have to do with the real Gail, the mother, the stay at home Mom at the point of her disappearance? I realize exactly what that says with hub having an affair w/younger gf for some time. What say you guys?

 

[Some1Nose]

Have been on anti-depress in my life once. So what? No longer, but do still take meds for anxiety, so? Am hoping that gf will break, and give up what she knows. I believe that. There is a huge pre-planned reason a bright RED Jeep has not been found. Maybe it's just me, but think he knew just where/when to 'make it so'. Think gf also knew/knows: that's why she's not speaking.

Just as you stated...lost my Mother, then only sibling (baby sis) the next year died. THEN found that my hubby was not who he claimed, and would not even get a job. Talk about stress! Yup, I took meds. Have no shame about that.

My question is..what does that have to do with the real Gail, the mother, the stay at home Mom at the point of her disappearance? I realize exactly what that says with hub having an affair w/younger gf for some time. What say you guys?

I say it would be abnormal for someone going through what Gail was going through to not be on meds for depression/anxiety!

 

[Some1Nose]

well at least we know she wasn't prescribed adderall in high school,LOL. I am still very unclear and confused about the ADD.

Yep...but her reported ADD had to have been under control as it is no easy task to earn your Ph.D.

And since Adderall has been on the market since 1996 (for 15 years) it seems that this would not have been a brand new medication for Gail, providing it was prescribed for ADD, and since she worked in an high-end job with Novartis until 2010, I would have to say, she was not exhibiting "psychotic" symptoms as a result of prescribed medications. IMHO

 

[Some1Nose]

Please. Matt posted it all in a public document long before AD did and painted a picture of severe mental illness to boot.

Mental illness so sever that no one else has seen it. Except the couple in Birmingham that let her drive off with her kids f*** up out of her mind./sarcasm

You'd think Gail's sister (who has known her forever) would be an authority on Gail's mental state:

"Absolutely not, said Diane N, when asked if her sister had a history of mental illness..."

http://www.wrcbtv.com/Global/story.asp?s=14627648

 

[glorias]

Yes and no. One can be depressed and NOT be mentally ill. Not all depression is chronic. Being depressed about the breakup of your marriage would not seem unusual even for a person in good overall health. AD says I think maybe my friend was depressed about certain things, but she wasn't mentally ill. Makes sense to me.

I absolutely agree. There's a lot of gray area here where opinions are going to differ. Personally, I think Gail's condition was temporary. There was a phrase you used the other day: situational and transient. That was the perfect phrase IMHO for how I personally think Gail's depression (and likely anxiety) manifested.

This is personal speculation, but I wonder if the situational depression is responsible for the conflicting info? MP seems like he was gone a lot for work and with TH, and of course the cheating and the divorce are going to stress a situation, so maybe all he saw was sadness and anger. Meanwhile friends and relatives saw Gail on a more even keel. Just a thought.

 

[Some1Nose]

The main questions, right now, for me are:

1) What caused Gail to hurry back to SM so early in the morning on 4/30? 2) What caused Gail to hurry away from the SM home around 12:15 pm the same day? 3) And, of course, the burning question, why did Gail want LE at the SM home when she arrived on 4/30? Therein may lay the answer to what happened to Gail?!

I have a feeling that MP was threatening Gail and ordering her to return (return the children and pets), and upon her arrival at the SM home, Gail may have discovered MP had done something destructive to the home or her possessions, or something along those lines.

MP wanted control and he was losing that control over Gail, rather quickly, so I think he was being more controlling than ever toward Gail on 4/29 and 4/30 (in person and via the phone and maybe computer). I would expect that he was calling her all manner of names including possibly "Psycho", IMHO, because it is common for controlling men to verbally denigrate their significant others when they are on the outs with them and "Psycho" is a favored term, it seems. IMO

Did MP commit the act of ultimate control? I couldn't say for sure. But this I do know, MP's abhorrent treatment of Gail attributed to her state of mind and, perhaps, what ultimately happened to her. All IMVHO

Having said that, I'm still torn between foul play, accident near home and witness protection.

It is possible she was whisked away into witness protection which would explain her sudden disappearance.

And then there's the alledged sighting by CC of Gail with a mystery passenger later in the day on 4/30 which puts a whole new twist to the disappearance.

 

[Emeralgem]

I absolutely agree that she could have had ADD, although we now know she could not have been taking Adderall at that time, but it seems to be getting clearer that the only person saying she had ADD isn't too clear on the details.

Seriously, the ADD has nothing to do with death...just sayin.

If nobody except AD is claiming the ADD diagnosis, then I doubt she had it. Somebody else in her life surely would have known about it. What about people who knew her when she was in high school, for instance..friends?

Have not been on WS for some time due to RL,,had a baby: 8.1 pounds, eek!
However, depressed or not. Receiving meds for same makes NO difference to my mind, NO alibi for dear hubby who, of course, had a gf. Much younger gf. Am not surprised that this has not been solved except for the fact of the bright RED Jeep. Prayers to Gail's children, family and friends.

My thought is that this was well-planned and financially benficial, or so HE thought. With he, and gf's unemployment they might think again. Best part!
I wish to find that RED Jeep (they sold very little of that model).

She must be found, and justice be done. Still thinking of Gail...:rocker:

BBM. I agree... Also, do we know IF he is now in a position where he cannot access her retirement account/s? Did Gail have a will? Do we know who is listed as beneficary?

 

[Oriah]

I am confuzzled by all the discussion regarding what medications Gail may or may not have been prescribed and/or taken at this point.

The only clarification that we will be able to gain from this would be from Gail, imvho. So until I see any actual evidence of anything prescribed- or for what conditions- and by whom- which will only come if Gail releases that information- or there is a subpoena issued for the information- I am not taking any statements about her mental or physical health as fact. JMO, of course.

In the meantime, I'm wondering again about a vehicular accident.

If the timeline is correct, Gail drove 4+ hrs to the lake house. She then drove back another 4+ hrs very early in the morning. Then she turned around and drove somewhere again. She had to have been tired. Might she have had an accident due to exhaustion?

 

[BeanE]

I am confuzzled by all the discussion regarding what medications Gail may or may not have been prescribed and/or taken at this point.

The only clarification that we will be able to gain from this would be from Gail, imvho. So until I see any actual evidence of anything prescribed- or for what conditions- and by whom- which will only come if Gail releases that information- or there is a subpeona issued for the information- I am not taking any statements about her mental or physical health as fact. JMO, of course.

In the meantime, I'm wondering again about a vehicular accident.

If the timeline is correct, Gail drove 4+ hrs to the lake house. She then drove back another 4+ hrs very early in the morning. Then she turned around and drove somewhere again. She had to have been tired. Might she have had an accident due to exhaustion?

Up early + possibly little sleep + long drive + exhausted + upset + possibly driving fast to avoid seeing Matt = increased likelihood of accident

:cow:

 

[CatFancier]

BBM. I agree... Also, do we know IF he is now in a position where he cannot access her retirement account/s? Did Gail have a will? Do we know who is listed as beneficary?

Without a death certificate and beneficiary status, he would have to have a power of attorney to access her retirement funds.

 

[CatFancier]

BBM. I agree... Also, do we know IF he is now in a position where he cannot access her retirement account/s? Did Gail have a will? Do we know who is listed as beneficary?

Also, it is typical to require spousal consent to have a beneficiary other than the spouse for pensions and 401(k) accounts. Unless he signed off on that, I would assume he is her primary beneficiary.

 

[BeanE]

Matt could probably go to court and have a judge decide how much of Gail's retirement account is marital assets - likely half - and get that amount released to him by taking the court order to the bank.

I'd imagine that Matt also has a retirement account, so it would likely be pretty much a wash - each having about the same amount in their retirement accounts, and after the 50% marital asset split, he would just keep everything in his own retirement account.

Example:

Gail's retirement account contains $400,00

Matt's retirement account contains $400,000

Each gets 50% - $200,000 - from each account for a total of $400,000 each.

Each just keeps what's already in their accounts.


That's just for illustrative purposes. IIRC, Matt's attorneys said in court that about $300k or maybe it was $320k was marital assets. Perhaps the other $80k to $100k was Gail's prior to their marriage, so would be 100% hers.

I'd found and posted the laws for divvying up the property and assets in TN a while back. In TN, basically, $$$ and property you bring into the marriage, along with inheritances received during the marriage, and gifts received during the marriage are 100% yours. Your earnings during the marriage, which would include your retirement account, property purchased during the marriage, etc, are a 50/50 split.

Here's the TN code:

http://www.tennessee.gov/tccy/tnchild/36/36-4-121.htm

ETA: Here's the index to all the Tennessee laws on marriage, divorce, kids, etc:
http://www.tennessee.gov/tccy/tnchild/t36/t_36.htm