TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #9

[Oriah]

That's how LE found Elizabeth Johnson. Her cell phone was pinging in one city in Texas, her car was in another city in Texas more than 100 miles from the phone, and she was on the other side of the country in Florida.

She posted on her Myspace.

I hope to God it was Gail on her Facebook.

Me too, Bean. What a wonderful sign that would be.

 

[Pearl*]

Seriously, the ADD has nothing to do with death...just sayin.

Agreed, RavenTrue. Congrats on your new addition, by the way!

The context of the whole discussion was Gail's mental state related to the medications she was taking/prescribed. Wondering if any of those meds could have either prompted or treated the types of symptoms MP described. If Gail were taking Adderall, I wonder if it was a new medication for her, possibly making an adverse reaction more likely. I don't think we ever established whether her body would have been accustomed to the drug. Adderall was singled out of the list due to the potential adverse reactions listed for that particular drug.

Since we found that Adderall is used to treat other conditions besides ADD, the question came up as to whether she might have had another medical condition that would be relevant. As the posting progressed, the whole report of her diagnosis of ADD came into question, for me anyway.

I find it very strange that nobody seems to have known of Gail's ADD diagnosis besides AD.

Confused mentioned that Sleuthy is a verified friend of Gail on WS, though, and i'd like to follow up on this if possible. I didn't remember that verification.

Especially since Sleuthy is verified also as a medical professional, I'm interested in knowing more about how long she has known Gail and what Gail might have discussed with her regarding her medical conditions/medications. It would seem natural for Gail to have discussed those issues with her friend who is also a medical professional. Honestly, that seems more natural to me than for Gail to have discussed those issues with AD. Likewise, a medical professional would be more tuned in to notice physical/mental symptoms that could be relevant.

Medication-related questions that didn't get answered last night are (1) Did Gail have a sleep disorder? Adderall is apparently prescribed for types of hypersomnia. If Gail suffered from a narcoleptic-type disorder, I think that raises trememdously the potential for an auto accident.

(2) Did Gail have a history of migraines? We learned that amitriptyline is sometimes prescribed to prevent those. If that were the indication for which that drug was prescribed, then the Wellbutrin is the only medication left on the list for treatment of a mental health condition, specifically depression.

Sleuthy? What can you tell us about your personal/professional observations regarding Gail? And how long have you known her?

 

[McSpy]

Agreed, RavenTrue. Congrats on your new addition, by the way!

The context of the whole discussion was Gail's mental state related to the medications she was taking/prescribed. Wondering if any of those meds could have either prompted or treated the types of symptoms MP described. If Gail were taking Adderall, I wonder if it was a new medication for her, possibly making an adverse reaction more likely. I don't think we ever established whether her body would have been accustomed to the drug. Adderall was singled out of the list due to the potential adverse reactions listed for that particular drug.

Since we found that Adderall is used to treat other conditions besides ADD, the question came up as to whether she might have had another medical condition that would be relevant. As the posting progressed, the whole report of her diagnosis of ADD came into question, for me anyway.

I find it very strange that nobody seems to have known of Gail's ADD diagnosis besides AD.

Confused mentioned that Sleuthy is a verified friend of Gail on WS, though, and i'd like to follow up on this if possible. I didn't remember that verification.

Especially since Sleuthy is verified also as a medical professional, I'm interested in knowing more about how long she has known Gail and what Gail
might have discussed with her regarding her medical conditions/medications. It would seem natural for Gail to have discussed those issues with her friend who is also a medical professional. Honestly, that seems more natural to me than for Gail to have discussed those issues with AD. Likewise, a medical professional would be more tuned in to notice physical/mental symptoms that could be relevant.

Medication-related questions that didn't get answered last night are (1) Did
Gail have a sleep disorder? Adderall is apparently prescribed for types of hypersomnia. If Gail suffered from a narcoleptic-type disorder, I think that raises trememdously the potential for an auto accident.

(2) Did Gail have a history of migraines? We learned that amitriptyline is sometimes prescribed to prevent those. If that were the indication for which that drug was prescribed, then the Wellbutrin is the only medication left on the list for treatment of a mental health condition, specifically depression.

Sleuthy? What can you tell us about your personal/professional observations regarding Gail? And how long have you known her?

Here is my take on the medications and ADD diagnosis. I was diagnosed with ADD when I went for individual therapy for marriage troubles. My spouse was diagnosed with depression and was prescribed Prozac by a therapist as well. I'm thinking the therapist community are always looking at anyone with troubles, problems and issues as needing pills of some sort. People usual arrive at the therapist office in a desperate state, because they want and need some guidence for very important things going on in their lives. My marriage ended up fine and both of us are not on any of these meds anymore. We don't need them or want them. I'm guessing she was looking for help through a therapist, because of her marriage and this is where the diagnosis of ADD came about. She was probably suffering from anxiety, because her life was unraveling from a bad marriage. I could be wrong, but I think she was just upset over her marriage situation. She may have been a highly functional person with temporary problems that needed to be addressed. I don't think ADD is a big deal. It is a highly over diagnosed by the therapist community, in my opinion. JMO

 

[KathyJ]

That's how LE found Elizabeth Johnson. Her cell phone was pinging in one city in Texas, her car was in another city in Texas more than 100 miles from the phone, and she was on the other side of the country in Florida.

She posted on her Myspace.

I hope to God it was Gail on her Facebook.

I dunno, seems that AD was removed off of her friends list, which would lead me to believe it was not Gail. FBI should be able to tell who changed it based on an IP address

 

[Oriah]

I dunno, seems that AD was removed off of her friends list, which would lead me to believe it was not Gail. FBI should be able to tell who changed it based on an IP address

Yes, they should.
FB is great with cooperating with LE.

 

[Pearl*]

Here is my take on the medications and ADD diagnosis. I was diagnosed with ADD when I went for individual therapy for marriage troubles. My spouse was diagnosed with depression and was prescribed Prozac by a therapist as well. I'm thinking the therapist community are always looking at anyone with troubles, problems and issues as needing pills of some sort. People usual arrive at the therapist office in a desperate state, because they want and need some guidence for very important things going on in their lives. My marriage ended up fine and both of us are not on any of these meds anymore. We don't need them or want them. I'm guessing she was looking for help through a therapist, because of her marriage and this is where the diagnosis of ADD came about. She was probably suffering from anxiety, because her life was unraveling from a bad marriage. I could be wrong, but I think she was just upset over her marriage situation. She may have been a highly functional person with temporary problems that needed to be addressed. I don't think ADD is a big deal. It is a highly over diagnosed by the therapist community, in my opinion. JMO

I would agree with you, except for the fact that Gail is missing without explanation, and mental health diagnoses and medications have become key issues regarding the case. We have allegations of mental instability, with a medication list that has become part of the Court record supposedly in support of the claim.

It raises many questions, and I'd like to exhaust all the possibilities we can come up with. Surely somebody can easily answer some of the questions I asked above. Then we can check them off the list.

 

[Annie_61]

I dunno, seems that AD was removed off of her friends list, which would lead me to believe it was not Gail. FBI should be able to tell who changed it based on an IP address

KathyJ I don't think it was said AD was removed off of Gails list, below is what Sleuthy1 posted. I may have missed someone saying AD was deleted off of Gails list so apologise in advance if I did miss it.

He has also deleted AD as a listed friend (to himself)...no shocker there....that is his perrogative to remove AD as a listed friend to himself. I personally am surprised it took him that long to do it. My guess is that he wanted to see what AD was posting on her Wall and the only way he could do it was to allow her as his friend and visa versa. IMO

Sorry I had to copy and paste that as I wasn't sure how to bring it over as a quote, I did try and turn it green so it sounded the same a sleuthy1....Sorry it's an age thingie happening here

 

[Melodie]

Seriously, the ADD has nothing to do with death...just sayin.

snipped

Exactly. I am completely underwhelmed by the medication list and the possible diagnoses. I personally don't see any reason why AD would make that up. If Gail had narcolepsy, why not just say that? Adderall could be prescribed for narcolepsy, but that is a rare condition and no one is saying she was diagnosed with that. ADD would be the only other reason to take that medication and by far the most common reason to take it. AD says she had ADD and she was her friend.

As far as other people confirming it, that's a problem with a lot of issues in this case. The other people who can confirm many things one way or another, aren't talking.

I would be more than a little surprised to see a Psychiatrist treating a patient for migraines. If she were complaining of that, he would likely refer her to another physician for the management of that problem. I don't see anything at all in the medication list or the possible diagnoses mentioned that could explain what happened to Gail or assist in locating her. Is it possible that she took something and had an adverse reaction to it which led to her losing control of her vehicle, falling into a ravine and obscured for more than 3 months? Well, I guess anything is possible but in my opinion it's highly unlikely. Especially since there are other theories that seem much more likely.:twocents:

 

[BeanE]

If I understand what was posted on Facebook as the change that was made to Gail's page, it was that it did say 'Married' and had Matt's name, and it changed to not having Matt's name next to the 'Married' status.

So... I was just googling around different places with Help on FB.

To have Matt's name in there would have required one of them to put the other's name in, and then FB automatically sends the other an email for them to confirm it's okay to put their name in.

If one of the people takes out the other person's name, it removes the name from other person's FB as well, until one of them puts a name in to make that confirmation email go out again.

So, apparently what happened is that Matt took Gail's name out of his Married status on his own page, and FB automatically then removed his name from Gail's page.

This makes me sad, because I was hoping that maybe Gail had made a change to her page, indicating that she might be close to willing to talk to somebody.

I'm particularly concerned right now, because if I understand the TN laws correctly, if she doesn't either visit the children, or make a child support payment toward them, by Aug 30 - just 2 1/2 weeks from now - her parental rights can be terminated, and I would not want to see that happen for the children's sake.

So when I saw the rumor that her FB page had changed, I was really hoping it was her.

If anybody is going to come up with some evidence of a crime, even circumstantial evidence, which would be necessary to show legally, if I understand correctly, that she is not wilfully absenting herself from her children, this is the time to find that evidence and send in your leads, written up clearly and with sufficient detail so LE can check them and confirm them quickly!

:cow:

 

[Emeralgem]

I would agree with you, except for the fact that Gail is missing without explanation, and mental health diagnoses and medications have become key issues regarding the case. We have allegations of mental instability, with a medication list that has become part of the Court record supposedly in support of the claim.

It raises many questions, and I'd like to exhaust all the possibilities we can come up with. Surely somebody can easily answer some of the questions I asked above. Then we can check them off the list.

It is my understanding LE and Gail's sister are denying mental instability in regards to Gail's mental health....
As I see it Matt P is the ONLY one making these claims...Also, the drugs listed are not anti-psychotic drugs. And IMO he can't be trusted to tell the truth..JMHO

 

[glorias]

It was posted on here, and discussed. I'm drawing a blank on who posted it or the timeframe it was posted, but I can try to find it if you like.

ETA: I found this, although this isn't the original discussion of it. I'm having a hard time finding it because there aren't really any uncommon key words to use to search for it.


Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #7

Confused is the one who posted it originally:

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6594870&postcount=394"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - TN TN - Gail Nowacki Palmgren, 44, Signal Mountain, 30 April 2011 - #4[/ame]

 

[glorias]

respectfully snipped for space

I find it very strange that nobody seems to have known of Gail's ADD diagnosis besides AD.

That's not necessarily true though. She's the only one talking about it. Numerous people might know about it but aren't saying anything, maybe because they think it's none of our business.

And honestly, people were very hard on AD yesterday for saying stuff that was too personal. It's very likely that some people are specifically holding back because they don't want to get too personal, or perhaps don't want to affect an investigation.

 

[Pearl*]

snipped

If Gail had narcolepsy, why not just say that? Adderall could be prescribed for narcolepsy, but that is a rare condition and no one is saying she was diagnosed with that. ADD would be the only other reason to take that medication and by far the most common reason to take it. AD says she had ADD and she was her friend.

[bbm] Apparently Adderall is used off label for treatment resistent depression. Given the circumstances, I think that is a much more likely scenario, especially with a psychiatrist on board--more likely to prescribe off label IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall#Other

As far as other people confirming it, that's a problem with a lot of issues in this case. The other people who can confirm many things one way or another, aren't talking.

This is where I think Sleuthy's perspective may be very helpful. As both a friend and a medical professional, I'm betting she can help rule out a few things.

I would be more than a little surprised to see a Psychiatrist treating a patient for migraines.

Is it stated anywhere that the psychiatrist prescribed each medication on the list?

Regardless, I think the sedating properties of the Sonata and the amitriptyline could be significant, if she were taking them at the time. She left early from Alabama, she must have been stressed from the day before, and I'm betting she was sleep-deprived. I think all these factors are significant.

 

[glorias]

If Gail had narcolepsy, why not just say that? Adderall could be prescribed for narcolepsy, but that is a rare condition and no one is saying she was diagnosed with that. ADD would be the only other reason to take that medication and by far the most common reason to take it. AD says she had ADD and she was her friend.

I believe in many states, if you have narcolepsy, your doctor has to report it to the DMV because of possible driving hazards. (The same concerns apply to epilepsy, sleep apnea, neurological disorders, etc.) When I did a search on this specific issue though, I think it looks like in TN it's up to the specific doctor whether to report a patient or not. But if Gail was taking Adderall for narcolepsy and has something on her license indicating she's narcoleptic, surely LE would know it. They would have known it almost immediately.

It would mean that LE's decision to not go to check things out on the 30th when Gail asked them to meet her at the house is even more astonishing, IMHO. And if it was possible she had narcolepsy and could have had a wreck during an episode of cataplexy or similar, MP surely would have said so months ago. So IMVHO, it doesn't look likely that Gail had narcolepsy.

 

[glorias]

respectfully snipped

So, apparently what happened is that Matt took Gail's name out of his Married status on his own page, and FB automatically then removed his name from Gail's page.

Oy. Well, this has not been a day for good news, IMO.

 

[BeanE]

[bbm]
Is it stated anywhere that the psychiatrist prescribed each medication on the list?

Oh good point, Pearl. I just looked again, and it actually doesn't say the psychiatrist prescribed any of the meds.

 

[Emeralgem]

If I understand what was posted on Facebook as the change that was made to Gail's page, it was that it did say 'Married' and had Matt's name, and it changed to not having Matt's name next to the 'Married' status.

So... I was just googling around different places with Help on FB.

To have Matt's name in there would have required one of them to put the other's name in, and then FB automatically sends the other an email for them to confirm it's okay to put their name in.

If one of the people takes out the other person's name, it removes the name from other person's FB as well, until one of them puts a name in to make that confirmation email go out again.

So, apparently what happened is that Matt took Gail's name out of his Married status on his own page, and FB automatically then removed his name from Gail's page.

This makes me sad, because I was hoping that maybe Gail had made a change to her page, indicating that she might be close to willing to talk to somebody.

I'm particularly concerned right now, because if I understand the TN laws correctly, if she doesn't either visit the children, or make a child support payment toward them, by Aug 30 - just 2 1/2 weeks from now - her parental rights can be terminated, and I would not want to see that happen for the children's sake.

So when I saw the rumor that her FB page had changed, I was really hoping it was her.

If anybody is going to come up with some evidence of a crime, even circumstantial evidence, which would be necessary to show legally, if I understand correctly, that she is not wilfully absenting herself from her children, this is the time to find that evidence and send in your leads, written up clearly and with sufficient detail so LE can check them and confirm them quickly!

:cow:

Just wondering did FB change the picture too?
ETA..My understanding is the picture on her FB page was changed also....JMHO

 

[Pearl*]

I believe in many states, if you have narcolepsy, your doctor has to report it to the DMV because of possible driving hazards. (The same concerns apply to epilepsy, sleep apnea, neurological disorders, etc.) When I did a search on this specific issue though, I think it looks like in TN it's up to the specific doctor whether to report a patient or not. But if Gail was taking Adderall for narcolepsy and has something on her license indicating she's narcoleptic, surely LE would know it. They would have known it almost immediately.

It would mean that LE's decision to not go to check things out on the 30th when Gail asked them to meet her at the house is even more astonishing, IMHO. And if it was possible she had narcolepsy and could have had a wreck during an episode of cataplexy or similar, MP surely would have said so months ago. So IMVHO, it doesn't look likely that Gail had narcolepsy.

In the interest of looking at all possibilities, I'm finding various types of hypersomnia besides narcolepsy, which may be treated with stimulants such as Adderall. They don't all involve cataplexy. Any could make falling asleep at the wheel more likely, however.

I'm not suggesting Gail was diagnosed with any of these disorders. What I'm trying to do is avoid tunnel vision.

Here's another link:

http://www.ninds.nih.gov/disorders/hypersomnia/hypersomnia.htm#Is_there_any_treatment

 

[Melodie]

[bbm] Apparently Adderall is used off label for treatment resistent depression. Given the circumstances, I think that is a much more likely scenario, especially with a psychiatrist on board--more likely to prescribe off label IMO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adderall#Other

I'm sorry, I don't understand. You think that a Psychiatrist would be more likely to prescribe a drug such as Adderall with serious implications rather than believe that Gail had ADD because that information is coming from AD? That is a very serious drug. I would be very surprised to see a doctor prescribe that for situational depression, which is what I believe Gail was suffering from. And where did resistant depression come from? I just feel like this is a stretch, in my opinion.

snipped



Is it stated anywhere that the psychiatrist prescribed each medication on the list?

I'm sorry, I thought that it was stated somewhere here that those medications were all prescribed by the Psychiatrist.

Regardless, I think the sedating properties of the Sonata and the amitriptyline could be significant, if she were taking them at the time. She left early from Alabama, she must have been stressed from the day before, and I'm betting she was sleep-deprived. I think all these factors are significant.

I agree that no doubt she was stressed and sleep deprived. But once again, we don't know if she was taking those drugs at the time. We just don't have enough information. Like I said, anything is possible, but, I don't know. If you're thinking accident, where's the Jeep?

 

[glorias]

Another off-label use for Adderall is weight loss. Wikipedia says specifically treatment-resistant depression (ETA: You already know that! Sorry, I'm having trouble keeping all the Adderall info from today straight.)