TN - Holly Bobo, 20, Darden; believed abducted 13 April 2011 - #35

[Plumeria5]

Number of days since Holly went missing.........537

Number of days since last TBI press release.....531

6 days in and nothing more...wow!

 

[Hatfield]

6 days in and nothing more...wow!

It really is sad isnt it.

JMO. Based on seeing all the comments on the possible theories, it seems like some combination involving a local perp(s) and #21 does seem possible, and if #21 is included, then it really would not be too surprising how long it has been.

What this would mean, is that something has to change in order for this case to get resolved. What could be the "something". Well, finding Holly of course would be one thing. Another thing would be for someone to confess. That is not too likely since so much time has passed, but we can hold out hope that the perp(s) will change their mind and do the right thing.

Was trying to think of anything else that might turn this case. Maybe some other critical piece of evidence being uncovered.

Maybe a change of who is working the case. A new Sheriff in town. Something along those lines might jar the case up real good, and begin to make things happen.

 

[EnBrown]

If we take the "pink purse" as an item that is still missing, then wondering where it is. The other items were uncovered relatively quickly. Just wondering what is so special about this item that it was never found. I think rumor of a missing camera too. And questions about where her car keys would be too.

Could it still be with her and maybe will be found when she is found. I hold out a glimmer of hope that she is still alive, and that would be wonderful if she is alive and with her purse. But in any event, maybe the purse is near her and maybe that is why it is not uncovered.

There was a lot of previous discussion about how all the items could have been carried away from the garage area, and it does seem like an awful lot to carry. Almost like the perp(s) helped her carry the items away either before or after.

We have the lunch box, the phone, the pink purse, and some rumored books/notepads possibly, along with possibly camera and maybe car keys. It kind of points to help carrying the items either before or after. IMO, I just cannot see her carrying all those items if there was a struggle and she was being forced to leave. If she was being forced to leave, she probably wouldn't take the time to carry that stuff, and the perp sure wouldn't care to let her take them. So, it just seems strange about all those items.

Now, if they were all in a backpack, it would make much more sense, and that could be one way they stayed with her. And as items were being scattered about, maybe the pink purse and other items are still out there somewhere.

Which is why she probably carried them all herself because she thought she would be coming back. She thought she'd be gone briefly (probably because that's what the abductor told her). :moo:

 

[Hatfield]

Which is why she probably carried them all herself because she thought she would be coming back. She thought she'd be gone briefly (probably because that's what the abductor told her). :moo:

I could see her taking them by herself only if she had a backpack of some sort. But I just dont see how she could physically carry all those items by herself without some sort of backpack to have them all in. I dont think a backpack was ever mentioned, but that would be another item in addition to the pink purse that would still be missing then.

Which is why I think it would be helpful for LE to officially state all the items still missing, so people know what to be looking for on these new searches that are being done by the volunteer group.

These could still be missing for all we know. The only one truly mentioned was the pink purse, but not by LE.
Backpack, Pink Purse, car keys, camera, books/papers

Kind of Confirmed Items were Lunch Box/Bag, Cell Phone

 

[Plumeria5]

I could see her taking them by herself only if she had a backpack of some sort. But I just dont see how she could physically carry all those items by herself without some sort of backpack to have them all in. I dont think a backpack was ever mentioned, but that would be another item in addition to the pink purse that would still be missing then.

Which is why I think it would be helpful for LE to officially state all the items still missing, so people know what to be looking for on these new searches that are being done by the volunteer group.

These could still be missing for all we know. The only one truly mentioned was the pink purse, but not by LE.
Backpack, Pink Purse, car keys, camera, books/papers

Kind of Confirmed Items were Lunch Box/Bag, Cell Phone

Could have been simple. Post facsimiles of all the items Holly had with her.
Holding back the descriptions hoping to catch someone knowing more than they should have seems like a long shot.

 

[reedus23]

Having an eyewitness here has been pretty much useless. About the only thing we know is the suspect was a male, but that could probably be extrapolated from the type of crime.

I don't know about that. Without the eye witness I don't know if Holly would have even gotten the investigation she has received.

 

[EnBrown]

Hypothesis:
Abductor: " I cannot believe the way you treated X. You are coming with me to apologize. I don't care where you have to be this morning. X is out here and you're going to talk to him"

 

[wfgodot]

Hypothesis:
Abductor: " I cannot believe the way you treated X. You are coming with me to apologize. I don't care where you have to be this morning. X is out here and you're going to talk to him"

When does the blood enter the picture.

 

[wfgodot]

I don't know about that. Without the eye witness I don't know if Holly would have even gotten the investigation she has received.

I'm not sure she's received much of an official investigation at all.

Under four months after Holly went missing: Holly Bobo's mother to President Obama: 'please send more help' (wsmv.com)

 

[reedus23]

JMO
It has been useless for sure. The way the descriptions changed over time was troubling. Very early on, it was printed as a "white" person too. That was dropped rather quickly, but there are still old articles that can be found with that being used in the description.

The weight changed, and desciption of the abduction events also changed from dragged, led, walked, etc. BF to cousin, etc.
Kneeling, talking, turkeys showing up much later in the events of that morning.

Over time, so many things changed, that people have to just throw it all away as it is not reliable. Its either throw it all away or pick and choose which parts are accurate.

If we are assuming a camo person did take her away, then I would have to pick the very early and very first accounts. I think I read somewhere that the early first accounts of something are usually the most accurate, as memory usually does not get better over time. Not sure if that is true or not, but it seems logical.

I know I didn't go through it as events unfolded, so maybe coming at it without having done so impacts how I viewed things as I read them. However, I never saw much discrepancy in the height/weight. CB certainly doesn't seem to have changed the description. I think some of the other descriptions change over time because LE: One, wasn't all on the same page at the outset and Two, LE understands that eyewitness description are not always right on so they want to provide a range. I think all of the various descriptions hover around the 5'10" - 6' 200 lb. description. I see no reason to worry about that.

The description of events is simply semantics. One Definition of dragged: [transitive] to make someone leave or go to a place when they do not want to
drag someone out of/away from/off something:

I'm sorry to call so early – I hope I didn't drag you out of bed.

You drag me away from my meeting just to tell me this!
drag yourself away/up/down etc:

If you can manage to drag yourself away from the TV you can help.

In those examples, the person wasn't actually one the ground being dragged by their arm/hair/leg etc...I don't think there is much question that Holly was made to go to a place she did not want to go, so, to me, which wording is used is just semantics trying to describe the same set of actions.

Boyfriend was never changed to cousin by anyone associated with the case. A TV personality used the word "cousin" and was not, at the time, even attributing that wording to anyone involved with the case.

Regarding the parts showing up later, that matters little either. I guarantee you I can ask you to take me through what you did for lunch today and then next week I can ask you take me through today's lunch again and you will remember a detail or two that you didn't relate to me the first time. You will also fail to mention a detail or two that you did relate the first time. In any case like this it's even more exaggerated because you will NEVER get the full story immediately. Not only does no one know the full story, but if they did, they're not going to release everything at once.

Bottom line as I see it is if you want to disregard everything related, then you will never solve ANY case. The difficult part is putting all the pieces together and that is even more difficult for us because we don't even know what all the pieces look like. I do believe, though, that the ones we are aware of, will and do fit the same puzzle. JMHO

 

[reedus23]

I could see her taking them by herself only if she had a backpack of some sort. But I just dont see how she could physically carry all those items by herself without some sort of backpack to have them all in. I dont think a backpack was ever mentioned, but that would be another item in addition to the pink purse that would still be missing then.

Which is why I think it would be helpful for LE to officially state all the items still missing, so people know what to be looking for on these new searches that are being done by the volunteer group.

These could still be missing for all we know. The only one truly mentioned was the pink purse, but not by LE.
Backpack, Pink Purse, car keys, camera, books/papers

Kind of Confirmed Items were Lunch Box/Bag, Cell Phone

Correct me if I'm wrong, the lunch box/bag was ABSOLUTELY confirmed, not kind of. The cell phone was denied by LE and amounts to rumor but it certainly seems to me to be one of the rumors that has some feet to it. I think the camera, keys and purse were all mentioned by Dana, so unless you want to say he's lying I think it's safe to say those are missing(and I did note he didn't reference a cell phone when listing items, leading me to believe the cell phone rumor may have some feet). I saw speculation and rumors about books/papers. May or may not be true, if anyone has a link it would be appreciated because none of the articles I reviewed stated those items but as always, I could have missed it.

So as far as carrying items, we're talking a lunch box/bag and a purse that could easily hold keys, camera and cell phone. Not much when you look at it like that IMO.

 

[reedus23]

I'm not sure she's received much of an official investigation at all.

Under four months after Holly went missing: Holly Bobo's mother to President Obama: 'please send more help' (wsmv.com)

I think it's a bit unfair to say she hasn't received an official investigation at all. We can talk about whether or not it is inept or ineffective or lazy but even if it was, it doesn't change who took Holly and what happened. Just because she's making a plea to the President doesn't speak to no official investigation at all, but more of a mother trying to do anything and everything she can to find her daughter and that what has been done hasn't found her yet, so bring in more resources.

 

[wfgodot]

I think it's a bit unfair to say she hasn't received an official investigation at all. We can talk about whether or not it is inept or ineffective or lazy but even if it was, it doesn't change who took Holly and what happened. Just because she's making a plea to the President doesn't speak to no official investigation at all, but more of a mother trying to do anything and everything she can to find her daughter and that what has been done hasn't found her yet, so bring in more resources.

Ah! That's why I used the words "much of an official investigation." Less than 90 days after Holly's kidnapping, her mom was reaching out for federal help. Now why would that be. To me, those are the words of someone not just reaching out for help but also someone who has lost faith in state and local investigators.

 

[Hatfield]

I know I didn't go through it as events unfolded, so maybe coming at it without having done so impacts how I viewed things as I read them. However, I never saw much discrepancy in the height/weight. CB certainly doesn't seem to have changed the description. I think some of the other descriptions change over time because LE: One, wasn't all on the same page at the outset and Two, LE understands that eyewitness description are not always right on so they want to provide a range. I think all of the various descriptions hover around the 5'10" - 6' 200 lb. description. I see no reason to worry about that.

The description of events is simply semantics. One Definition of dragged: [transitive] to make someone leave or go to a place when they do not want to
drag someone out of/away from/off something:

I'm sorry to call so early – I hope I didn't drag you out of bed.

You drag me away from my meeting just to tell me this!
drag yourself away/up/down etc:

If you can manage to drag yourself away from the TV you can help.

In those examples, the person wasn't actually one the ground being dragged by their arm/hair/leg etc...I don't think there is much question that Holly was made to go to a place she did not want to go, so, to me, which wording is used is just semantics trying to describe the same set of actions.

Boyfriend was never changed to cousin by anyone associated with the case. A TV personality used the word "cousin" and was not, at the time, even attributing that wording to anyone involved with the case.

Regarding the parts showing up later, that matters little either. I guarantee you I can ask you to take me through what you did for lunch today and then next week I can ask you take me through today's lunch again and you will remember a detail or two that you didn't relate to me the first time. You will also fail to mention a detail or two that you did relate the first time. In any case like this it's even more exaggerated because you will NEVER get the full story immediately. Not only does no one know the full story, but if they did, they're not going to release everything at once.

Bottom line as I see it is if you want to disregard everything related, then you will never solve ANY case. The difficult part is putting all the pieces together and that is even more difficult for us because we don't even know what all the pieces look like. I do believe, though, that the ones we are aware of, will and do fit the same puzzle. JMHO

We can agree to disagree, but the changes I saw and read were not all media fault. Things definitely were changed along the way, and the story evolved over time. As an example, on the JVM interview which was much much later was the very first time anybody heard about the "kneeling" in the garage and also possibly showing a turkey they had got while hunting. These were never brought up before then. Just something new that was added which is still a change to the original story, where that was never mentioned before.

It doesn't matter, as a lot of other people saw and read all the same stories I have seen from day 1, and those who followed closely also saw the same discrepencies I saw.

There may be valid reasons why things were changed.

 

[Hatfield]

Correct me if I'm wrong, the lunch box/bag was ABSOLUTELY confirmed, not kind of. The cell phone was denied by LE and amounts to rumor but it certainly seems to me to be one of the rumors that has some feet to it. I think the camera, keys and purse were all mentioned by Dana, so unless you want to say he's lying I think it's safe to say those are missing(and I did note he didn't reference a cell phone when listing items, leading me to believe the cell phone rumor may have some feet). I saw speculation and rumors about books/papers. May or may not be true, if anyone has a link it would be appreciated because none of the articles I reviewed stated those items but as always, I could have missed it.

So as far as carrying items, we're talking a lunch box/bag and a purse that could easily hold keys, camera and cell phone. Not much when you look at it like that IMO.

I thought a purse is an item that goes in a pocket book. Was thinking small change purse, so have no idea how large it would be since nobody knows. Was also thinking the lunch bag was only for sandwiches + stuff, so didnt think of that being used to carry other things.

The issue to me is why is LE not informing the searchers and the public what was missing to be looking for from Day 1. It seems that would be valuable information to know if you were part of those early serches that involved hundreds of people. And even the new searches as well as general public that may have seen a camera at a pawn shop or something if they knew the description of the camera.

I just see no benefit in withholding that critical information, and if the only reason is to maybe use against the perp(s), well I think trying to find her and her items would take precendence over that.

 

[reedus23]

Ah! That's why I used the words "much of an official investigation." Less than 90 days after Holly's kidnapping, her mom was reaching out for federal help. Now why would that be. To me, those are the words of someone not just reaching out for help but also someone who has lost faith in state and local investigators.

Yes, you are right. My apologies. And I definitely agree, she lost faith in state and local and whatever federal was there, even if they were doing everything they could (which I don't agree/disagree with because I don't know what all they've done) she still lost faith in them.

 

[wfgodot]

Yes, you are right. My apologies. And I definitely agree, she lost faith in state and local and whatever federal was there, even if they were doing everything they could (which I don't agree/disagree with because I don't know what all they've done) she still lost faith in them.

To me, that's the one time she was able to break free of the spokespastor(s) and say what was on her mind, really.

 

[reedus23]

We can agree to disagree, but the changes I saw and read were not all media fault. Things definitely were changed along the way, and the story evolved over time. As an example, on the JVM interview which was much much later was the very first time anybody heard about the "kneeling" in the garage and also possibly showing a turkey they had got while hunting. These were never brought up before then. Just something new that was added which is still a change to the original story, where that was never mentioned before.

It doesn't matter, as a lot of other people saw and read all the same stories I have seen from day 1, and those who followed closely also saw the same discrepencies I saw.

There may be valid reasons why things were changed.

Don't get me wrong, I can see there were things told one time that weren't told before and things left out that were said before. My point really is that if you disregard all stories because the story is told piecemeal, you will discard every story in cases like this because they are never told in their entirety at one time, particularly early in a case. The stories always emerge with time. What I look for is inconsistencies in the story. For example, if CB said he saw them kneeling in the garage at one time and in a different version he says, no, I never saw them kneeling in the garage. Those types of things are what give me concern.

 

[wfgodot]

I wonder if the new lead agent has done any re-interviewing.

 

[reedus23]

I thought a purse is an item that goes in a pocket book. Was thinking small change purse, so have no idea how large it would be since nobody knows. Was also thinking the lunch bag was only for sandwiches + stuff, so didnt think of that being used to carry other things.

The issue to me is why is LE not informing the searchers and the public what was missing to be looking for from Day 1. It seems that would be valuable information to know if you were part of those early serches that involved hundreds of people. And even the new searches as well as general public that may have seen a camera at a pawn shop or something if they knew the description of the camera.

I just see no benefit in withholding that critical information, and if the only reason is to maybe use against the perp(s), well I think trying to find her and her items would take precendence over that.

You have a point, they never said what type of purse. It could be a change purse, I always figured it was a purse purse, like you hold in your hand or over your shoulder and ladies keep their keys, wallet and whatever else in it. That's why I assumed the keys, cell phone and camera would be carried in the purse purse. Obviously, you'd be right if it was more of a change purse. And while it could be, I agree with you, I doubt the lunch box/bag was used to carry other items.

I agree with you personally 100% on the argument that LE too oftentimes plays things TOO close to the vest. I think it would have been helpful for the public to know what items to look out for. At the same time, I do understand the logic employed by LE in not releasing it. Not only does it help in using it against the perps, but it also helps them determine what tips are legitimate and which aren't. For example, someone calls in and says they saw someone throw a purse out the window of the car. By playing it close to the vest, if the person describes the purse as being brown, LE can eliminate that lead quickly because they know the purse is pink. Whereas if they release that info, the person calling in the bogus tip would already know to answer that it is pink. Having said that, though, I agree with you, I wish and think LE should have disclosed more to let the public know what to look for.