TN TN - Karen Swift, 44, Dyersburg, 30 Oct 2011 - #2

[ThoughtFox]

Since this would also be the vicims home could LE not get a search warrant for the house and the property?

It sounds logical, but as with the Gail Palmgren case, if someone drives away from the house then the vehicle is considered the crime scene. In Gail's case, they have never found her jeep, and they waited months before they searched the property. *sigh* Karen Swift's case is even more maddening ~ the car was found just around the corner, yet they haven't searched the house because the husband won't give permission, plus in the beginning they had the red herring of the dog poisoner down the road.

It just seems to me that if my husband or one of my kids was missing, I would be hysterical, and I wouldn't mind if they searched my home. Why not if it could bring home a loved one? That's why it always amazes me when people won't allow even a quick walk-through by police, but this happens all the time.

 

[nursebeeme]

the house has been searched....

Dyer County Sheriff's Chief Investigator Terry McCreight said the family is cooperating with them and voluntarily left the house while agents performed their investigation. Deputies initially searched the house on Sunday after Swift was reported missing

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1783449.html

http://www.stategazette.com/photos/15/75/99/1575997-L.jpg
http://www.stategazette.com/story/1783449/photo/1575998.html

 

[Joe Friday]

It sounds logical, but as with the Gail Palmgren case, if someone drives away from the house then the vehicle is considered the crime scene. In Gail's case, they have never found her jeep, and they waited months before they searched the property. *sigh* Karen Swift's case is even more maddening ~ the car was found just around the corner, yet they haven't searched the house because the husband won't give permission, plus in the beginning they had the red herring of the dog poisoner down the road.

It just seems to me that if my husband or one of my kids was missing, I would be hysterical, and I wouldn't mind if they searched my home. Why not if it could bring home a loved one? That's why it always amazes me when people won't allow even a quick walk-through by police, but this happens all the time.

BBM

I guess it depends on if you are guilty of being involved in the disappearance or not that determines whether you allow LE to search your house and property without a search warrant.

JMO

 

[EgyptNug]

The older children may have their heads in the sand, may side with the father, may think that certain types of domestic violence are humor that is taken badly ... and then there is the interview with the son that broke down when he said that his father couldn't have done anything ... will post the link when I come across it again ... but I thought that was an odd time for him to have an emotional break. Stating that his father was not involved should have been a solid, emotionless point ... something stated with confidence, not an emotional breakdown.

With all due respect, I don't think most of us have any idea what is a "normal" response for a child who is braving the tv cameras to get help to find his missing mother, having never been in such a situation. If i had to guess, i'd guess just the opposite of what you did, that if I were faced with my mom being missing, and hearing people talk and confront me about the possibility that my dad might have done it, it would NOT be a calm response, i'd probably break down, too, because not only am i maxed out emotionally over my mom's disappearance, but now people are attacking my dad, no way would i be calm.

 

[EgyptNug]

It's frustrating when LE doesn't release much information because in the void it always seems to happen that more and more theories start flying, and then people forget what is fact vs all the speculation, and it doesn't lead to anything productive most of the time. Sometimes I get frustrated at not being able to discuss some topics/people here in a certain way, but when there isn't much news being released, i think it's a good thing that people that aren't suspects arent tarred and feathers while the natives (me included) are getting restless.. I do hope that this case isn't allowed to go cold, though, because while (after the Casey Anthony debacle) I've come to a place where I'm not certain how much good it does to sleuth or to get too much attention on a case, I do still feel that a certain amount of media attention is a very good thing to put pressure on all involved for solving the case. I hope there's some positive traction going on behind the scenes.

 

[EgyptNug]

BBM

I guess it depends on if you are guilty of being involved in the disappearance or not that determines whether you allow LE to search your house and property without a search warrant.

JMO

I saw a youtube video of an attorney who explained why no one should ever talk to the police. It made some really convincing points. A totally innocent person can give a 100% honest interview and yet it could be twisted or misunderstood and be used to convict that (innocent) person. When I look at all the miscommunications that occur in normal life, I can see how that could happen.
I think i would take that risk with my child, because frankly i don't know i could live any life without knowing if they were safe and okay, so if i got wrongly arrested it would matter only to me in that LE wouldn't be looking for whoever did it. I wouldn't care about my freedoms except freedom to find my child. I think because children are so vulnerable and can't take care of themselves or maybe get away, etc. :: heartbreak over the thought of these poor missing kids:: But if it were my spouse, and I knew I was innocent (!), and the missing spouse was in the process of divorcing me and there was a chance that they had (in my spousal mind) run off by choice, and I knew that LE would look at me by default (because i was the spouse and because they were divorcing me so i become the de facto number one person to look at) and i could wrongly go to jail and leave my kids (!!) with no parents, for something I didn't do.. well i might take that youtube lawyers' advice and not talk to LE and not have them search my home without a warrant. I wouldn't be willing to sit in a jail cell and have my young kids with no parents, one missing one wrongly accused in jail, raised by someone else just because LE wanted to convict me because i was the spouse and not because i'd actually done anything.

I know it would have sounded GUILTY to me before I saw that video on why innocent people shouldn't talk to the popo. (He must be a good attorney because he totally changed my mind on this topic!)

 

[LindaG]

the house has been searched....
http://www.stategazette.com/photos/15/75/99/1575997-L.jpg
http://

http://www.stategazette.com/story/1783449.html

If the house has not been declared a crime scene, I think there are restrictions as to what can be done in the house, or what can be taken from it. The article on the search said that "potential evidence was processed at the residence of Karen Swift"... "(The team - of scientists) out of the Memphis crime lab responded to the Swift residence today to look for evidence of a crime scene," said TBI spokesperson Kristin Helm. " They are looking for trace evidence.

This is different than going into a potential crime scene (which this is not being called) and removing bags of personal property, as well as searching the grounds and out-buildings. That type of search and seizure is what Stark objects to.

It will be up to the scientists from TBI to determine if a crime has been committed in the home. JMO

 

[OldSteve]

No knew news....
Just thinking about those who divorce and then remarry the same spouse... coincidentally, we have Natalie Wood's reopened case and she is a divorce/remarry..
Wonder what the mindset is in these cases - what does it say about the man?
What does it say about the woman?

 

[OldSteve]

Pretend your a husband who has been served with divorce papers and you (being a greedy #@!#!$) decide you are going do-in your spouse... you think to yourself, you need to pick a time when it will not appear unusual that your wife was out of the house late at night... Now it just so happens that Halloween is coming up and as bad luck for her would have it, she is planning to out go that night.... So you begin planing, and being nice to her and kids to keep everyone off guard...

On the other hand, what if a serial killer is running around and one's wife just happens to be out of the house in the early morning hours after Halloween, and the killer takes her... Meanwhile, the husband had been served a month earlier with divorce papers..
The husband has no bad intentions...

Quite the conundrum as Newman might say on Steinfeld...

 

[Joe Friday]

I saw a youtube video of an attorney who explained why no one should ever talk to the police. It made some really convincing points. A totally innocent person can give a 100% honest interview and yet it could be twisted or misunderstood and be used to convict that (innocent) person. When I look at all the miscommunications that occur in normal life, I can see how that could happen.
I think i would take that risk with my child, because frankly i don't know i could live any life without knowing if they were safe and okay, so if i got wrongly arrested it would matter only to me in that LE wouldn't be looking for whoever did it. I wouldn't care about my freedoms except freedom to find my child. I think because children are so vulnerable and can't take care of themselves or maybe get away, etc. :: heartbreak over the thought of these poor missing kids:: But if it were my spouse, and I knew I was innocent (!), and the missing spouse was in the process of divorcing me and there was a chance that they had (in my spousal mind) run off by choice, and I knew that LE would look at me by default (because i was the spouse and because they were divorcing me so i become the de facto number one person to look at) and i could wrongly go to jail and leave my kids (!!) with no parents, for something I didn't do.. well i might take that youtube lawyers' advice and not talk to LE and not have them search my home without a warrant. I wouldn't be willing to sit in a jail cell and have my young kids with no parents, one missing one wrongly accused in jail, raised by someone else just because LE wanted to convict me because i was the spouse and not because i'd actually done anything.

I know it would have sounded GUILTY to me before I saw that video on why innocent people shouldn't talk to the popo. (He must be a good attorney because he totally changed my mind on this topic!)

Talking to LE and letting them search your property are two different things. I think you might of missed my point. But I can see your point about LE twisting things around in an interview. Being asked the simple questions about when the person involved was last seen and what they were doing should be no problem for anyone to answer if they are not guilty of a crime. If cornered in an interrogation room and being faced with "We know you did it, just tell us and get it off your chest" then I think I would be asking for an attorney as well. It is when people change their story is when most people get in trouble. That is usually why LE wants to conduct multiple interviews, to see if someone changes their story from what was earlier said.



If you were not involved in a crime than there should be no evidence on your property that leads to you being a suspect or being arrested and you should have no worry about your property being searched.

There should be no internet searches found on your computer on how to make your wife disappear or similar things (unless you are a WS member), there should be no blood found in your plumbing, blood stained mattress and carpet in your home, the walls of your house when illuminated with Luminol should not glow like a nuclear reactor, there should be no fresh blood found on your clothing lying in the closet, the shoes in the garage or blood within your car, your house should not smell so strongly of bleach that anyone who enters needs a gas mask, there should be no freshly dug dirt mounds in your back yard, you should not have scrapes and scratches on your body as if you were attacked by the meanest cat on the planet, there should be no unexplainable large transactions on your bank accounts, you shouldn't need to explain why a receipt from Walmart dated the day your wife went missing for eight bottles of charcoal lighter fuel was found in your car when you don't even own a charcoal grill, the list goes on and on about what could be found if you did in fact commit a crime. But if you didn't do anything then there should be no reason to worry if your property is searched.


JMO

 

[cluciano63]

I'm not sure I quite understand why LE can't obtain search warrants for a home when a person goes missing...seems there would be probable cause to say that she may have vanished from the home, since no one really knows what happened. This business of faling to protect victims in favor of personal rights is really getting to me...

 

[MagnoliaMom]

Do we have a lawyer who can weigh in because I don't understand either. Why do they need anyone's permission to search the home of the missing person and the property. It was the last place she was seen or talked to so the most logical place to start regardless of where her car was found.

If you had properly trained dogs, and they were searching the perimeter of the property and indicated they wanted to go on the property. Does the handler have to stop them? Would that give them probable cause to search if that occurred?

 

[dovebar]

I am wondering if he saw her from the top of the stairs - when she was pushed. Why can't the police go in to test with luminol for blood in the stairwell, or anywhere in the garage, to see if someone was bundling a body into the trunk of a car? That is bizarre to me.

It also seem to me that anyone who loved his kids and wasn't a raging narcissist would search high and low for their mother. Surely he knows all their contacts in the community and could rally search parties, as in, "We were divorcing but that doesn't mean I wanted any harm to come to her and my children need to find their mother. Please come help!"

 

[tarabull]

:bump:

Karen, you should be decorating for Christmas with your kids, planning get togethers, what to bake and make and readying all the surprises you will have in store. Shopping for presents while the kids are at school and finding the perfect hiding spots for everything until Santa comes. Life for a child could never be the same without their mother - especially at Christmas time - please you must come home.

 

[ThoughtFox]

I'm not sure I quite understand why LE can't obtain search warrants for a home when a person goes missing...seems there would be probable cause to say that she may have vanished from the home, since no one really knows what happened. This business of faling to protect victims in favor of personal rights is really getting to me...

Both sides have rights - it's always like that. If you were accused, you would want your rights to be respected too.

(Of course, I wish they had searched the house right away too).

The thing about a warrant is that it comes from a judge, not the police. The police can ask, but a judge can say, "Well, you found her car two miles away - go look there first."

The car is the crime scene - it's exactly like the Gail Palmgren case. If someone says they saw you leave or drive away, then police can't assume the home has anything to do with the disappearance. It's treated like a carjacking or something.

 

[TxLady2]

I'm not sure I quite understand why LE can't obtain search warrants for a home when a person goes missing...seems there would be probable cause to say that she may have vanished from the home, since no one really knows what happened. This business of faling to protect victims in favor of personal rights is really getting to me...

I assume they have to have reason to believe the person's body is in the home, or somewhere on the property.
When they respond to a missing person report, LE always does a walk through of the house as well as outside. If there is no indication of foul play at that time and since her car was found elsewhere, then there is no probable cause for a search warrant for the house.

 

[MLE]

While I do think foul play is the most likely scenario, I'd like to present an alternative theory.

Perhaps she ran off with a boyfriend who wrecked the marriage. What makes me think this is a possibility is how her clothing was found near the car. That's the strangest aspect of the case. One would think a kidnapper would get his victim into his car before worrying about her clothing being removed.

So maybe she wore her casual clothing while she left her house because she wouldn't have wanted to be seen by her husband in the nicer clothing and have to answer his nosey questions or put up with his angry reaction. Then, she changed into the nicer clothing away from home so she could look nice for the boyfriend and discarded the casual clothing, took her purse with her, and rode off into the moonlight to start her new life with her new man.

 

[Joe Friday]

While I do think foul play is the most likely scenario, I'd like to present an alternative theory.

Perhaps she ran off with a boyfriend who wrecked the marriage. What makes me think this is a possibility is how her clothing was found near the car. That's the strangest aspect of the case. One would think a kidnapper would get his victim into his car before worrying about her clothing being removed.

So maybe she wore her casual clothing while she left her house because she wouldn't have wanted to be seen by her husband in the nicer clothing and have to answer his nosey questions or put up with his angry reaction. Then, she changed into the nicer clothing away from home so she could look nice for the boyfriend and discarded the casual clothing, took her purse with her, and rode off into the moonlight to start her new life with her new man.

It would be nice to know if the cloths were found neatly folded and placed in or under the brush, which ever the case might be or as if the clothing appeared to be just thrown and maybe located in two separate locations several feet away from each other.

The condition of the clothing could tell if they were possibly removed with force if they were torn or dirt was found on the knees or elbows indicate a struggle.

If the cloths were found neatly folded I doubt an abduction took place.

JMO

 

[cluciano63]

Both sides have rights - it's always like that. If you were accused, you would want your rights to be respected too.

(Of course, I wish they had searched the house right away too).

The thing about a warrant is that it comes from a judge, not the police. The police can ask, but a judge can say, "Well, you found her car two miles away - go look there first."

The car is the crime scene - it's exactly like the Gail Palmgren case. If someone says they saw you leave or drive away, then police can't assume the home has anything to do with the disappearance. It's treated like a carjacking or something.

But the car may be staged as a crime scene...especially if the person who said they saw you walk away has a motive.

 

[Janeumayer]

While I do think foul play is the most likely scenario, I'd like to present an alternative theory.

Perhaps she ran off with a boyfriend who wrecked the marriage. What makes me think this is a possibility is how her clothing was found near the car. That's the strangest aspect of the case. One would think a kidnapper would get his victim into his car before worrying about her clothing being removed.

So maybe she wore her casual clothing while she left her house because she wouldn't have wanted to be seen by her husband in the nicer clothing and have to answer his nosey questions or put up with his angry reaction. Then, she changed into the nicer clothing away from home so she could look nice for the boyfriend and discarded the casual clothing, took her purse with her, and rode off into the moonlight to start her new life with her new man.

Only problem with this theory is that the dogs did not find Karen's scent near or around her car. Or am I wrong?