TN TN - Kathy Jones, 12, Nashville, 29 Nov 1969 #1

[December]

I looked up 2806 Grand view Ave. It is further away from Thompson Lane than I thought.

And still a vacant lot?

 

[Tulessa]

http://www.wsmv.com/story/19024068/cold-case-detectives-seek-publics-help-in-grisly-killings

 

[Tulessa]

A list of serial killers.

List of serial killers in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[bessie]

Yes, there should definitely be a motel in the area.

One possibility is it was someone for whom Nashville was a stop over between where they celebrated Thanksgiving and where they lived.

I noticed Hickerson's when I first looked at the map. It's very near the corner of Lutie and Nolensville, but in the opposite direction of the RD, so Kathy wouldn't have walked past it. IF she walked on Nolensville, a motel guest driving by might have seen her.

You can tell it's been around awhile, a mid-century "motor court". I also read about it on one of the Nashville history pages. Found this, too. The comment says there used to be several motels in the area, which I don't doubt.

Hickerson's Motel Court | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

http://motelpostcards.blogspot.com/2010/09/hickerson-motel-court-nashville.html

I grew up in a somewhat similar post-war, pre-interstate, baby boomer suburb developed off of a major highway. On the other side, beyond the highway were railroad tracks, with an industrial/commercial area in between. There were several motels similar to Hickerson's along the stretch that bordered our neighborhood. I don't recall a single major crime connected to any of those motels. They were nice places that families stayed, probably some traveling businessmen, and an occasional trucker. The rest of that band of highway was filled with a shopping center, two large department stores, a couple of supermarkets, a bowling alley, and restaurants, all geared toward families. From one end to the other was about a half mile or so, and kids over ten regularly walked around unchaperoned in the daylight hours. At night you might see a group of boys going for a hamburger or something, but it would've been very unusual for a girl to walk alone along there at night.

 

[December]

I noticed Hickerson's when I first looked at the map. It's very near the corner of Lutie and Nolensville, but in the opposite direction of the RD, so Kathy wouldn't have walked past it. IF she walked on Nolensville, a motel guest driving by might have seen her.

You can tell it's been around awhile, a mid-century "motor court". I also read about it on one of the Nashville history pages. Found this, too. The comment says there used to be several motels in the area, which I don't doubt.

Hickerson's Motel Court | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

http://motelpostcards.blogspot.com/2010/09/hickerson-motel-court-nashville.html

I grew up in a somewhat similar post-war, pre-interstate, baby boomer suburb developed off of a major highway. On the other side, beyond the highway were railroad tracks, with an industrial/commercial area in between. There were several motels similar to Hickerson's along the stretch that bordered our neighborhood. I don't recall a single major crime connected to any of those motels. They were nice places that families stayed, probably some traveling businessmen, and an occasional trucker. The rest of that band of highway was filled with a shopping center, two large department stores, a couple of supermarkets, a bowling alley, and restaurants, all geared toward families. From one end to the other was about a half mile or so, and kids over ten regularly walked around unchaperoned in the daylight hours. At night you might see a group of boys going for a hamburger or something, but it would've been very unusual for a girl to walk alone along there at night.

I don't think kathy would have gone to the motel area. because, like you said, it would be weird. and she had specific places to go that saturday.

however, i think a person from the motel might go to her neighborhood. if they were a weirdo looking to hurt children, they would know better than try the motel. the kids would be right under the nose of their parents, for the most part. so, he'd go find a neighborhood and try to play himself off as visiting so and so two streets over or whatever. or maybe he wouldn't even have to say that. (speculation based on nothing much)

of course, the thing that shoots that theory of mine in the foot is the mall. it's right there and super crowded that time of the year. but maybe being so crowded means that a guy looking for kids would have too many potential witnesses.

it's hard to say.

i used to work in a town that had a motel that had some crime that took place in it. the police knew about that and tried to keep a watch on it, particuarly due to people passing through that might not know (this being said, the place did NOT look like an o.k. place to say and i never even drove near it).

i am really thinking that maybe the times on these news reports are wrong. because even if she felt she could go up a little way and get on the scary bus, that still would have left her very little time to get a doughnut and skate. plus, i think she was meeting friends, so it is hard for me to imagine this whole little skating meetup taking place so late at night. also, in my family my entire life, i have always been told that kathy was supposed to be home before dark. also, the eyewitnesses who saw her...

so for all of these reasons, i believe it was day when she set out. i think when she was late, nora gave her a little more time.. maybe to 5:30 or 6. then she started making calls or whatever she did. then finally, she called the cops.

oh, and i did see on one of the comments at an article that someone's grandfather offered kathy a ride because he'd just taken his daughters to the rink. but, she didn't know him (i guess) so she said no. (i think he knew her kind of, but she didn't really know him) the commenter said he wished she'd accepted the ride, but she said she wanted to walk.

using the paper's time..
7:45 leave
8:00 get to KK
8:15 leave with doughnut
8:20 get to rink
8:30 get skates on and get out on the floor
10:00 (at latest) rink closes (which is insanely late for a 12 year old to be out and i have a hard time imaginging it.. but let's just say)
10:10 get skates off and coat on, etc. set out
10:25 home

so, even with maximum time and with the assumption she had an extremely late curfew, she has to hurry at every place and only gets to skate 1 1/2 hours. and that's even if little kids could skate that late on a sat. night when they might rather cater to teens and young adults. and that's also assuming the rink let them skate right up til close which idk if they would, more than likely they'd make everyone get off the floor about 9:45 so they could get everyone out by 10.

even adding the bus doesn't shave off that much time, it bumps her up to about 2 hours of skate time.

but, i am hoping to have some of my personal problems sorted out tomorrow and call the police. i am going to ask them specifically about when did she leave because 7:45 just seems way, way too late. i can't remember my curfew when i was 12 for sure because i didn't go any place much by myself. but i am thinking 9p.m. would be late for such a young kid unless her parents were with her.

of course, maybe that is the explanation.. maybe one of her friend's parents was going to supervise this group and was going to drive kathy home. but then, why don't the police know for sure she never got there. argh, this is the thing with this case. i wish some of my family was alive to ask.

oh, by the way.. the only interstates nearby at the time would be 65 and 40. 440 which now intersects with nolensville road wasn't built until much later. they didn't even start construction until maybe the 80s. just in case someone doesn't realize it since some cities would have things like that earlier.

 

[nerosleuth]

what do you think about the serious wound to her neck?

do you think the type of break would be part of the same thing that caused such a thing.

I’ve been thinking about the serious wound to Kathy’s neck, and I’m still wondering how Kathy was strangled.

Now from the 1998 Nashville Scene news article, we know that Kathy’s blouse was found tied around her mouth and neck when her body was found.

The fact that her blouse was found tied on her mouth and neck raises two interesting questions here. Did the killer use Kathy’s blouse to strangle her? Or did the killer just place the blouse on Kathy’s neck after her death?

We also know from the news article that several almond shaped cuts were found on Kathy's throat. The question here is what caused those cuts on her throat and the serious wound on her neck?

I’m not for sure what may have caused the almond shaped cuts and wounds to Kathy’s throat and neck. I’m speculating that during Kathy’s captivity, the neck wound may have something to do with the killer’s involvement with bondage.

The first possibility could be that Kathy’s neck was bound with some kind of a strap or leash. The cuts on her throat and neck may have been caused by metal studs on the strap or leash.

The second possibility could be that Kathy’s neck was bound in some kind of a tourniquet. The tourniquet could have been some kind of a chain or wire that was placed and twisted on the victim’s neck.

So yes, the possibility does exist that the killer could have used a strap, leash, or tourniquet on the neck to choke or sexually asphyxiate the victim which could have caused her neck to be broken.

But if the victim wasn’t strangled with the blouse or bondage paraphernalia, then the military angle has to be considered.

Infantry troops in the military are taught hand to hand combat defenses. They’re also taught how to kill using their bare hands in certain ways.

I believe a combat killing in the neck region involves snapping the neck and causing the spinal cords to be severed.

I wonder if police are able to tell if a neck was broken and the spinal cords were severed without having an autopsy performed to confirm their suspicions.

 

[nerosleuth]

I can see Kathy taking the kid route during the afternoon going from her home to the skating rink.

But I do wonder if Kathy would have been comfortable taking the kid route going thru lots and fields when it was dark at night.

Another thing to think about here. Were there any other abduction attempts or child enticement attempts that occurred in the same area prior to Kathy's abuction?

 

[December]

I’ve been thinking about the serious wound to Kathy’s neck, and I’m still wondering how Kathy was strangled.

Now from the 1998 Nashville Scene news article, we know that Kathy’s blouse was found tied around her mouth and neck when her body was found.

The fact that her blouse was found tied on her mouth and neck raises two interesting questions here. Did the killer use Kathy’s blouse to strangle her? Or did the killer just place the blouse on Kathy’s neck after her death?

We also know from the news article that several almond shaped cuts were found on Kathy's throat. The question here is what caused those cuts on her throat and the serious wound on her neck?

I’m not for sure what may have caused the almond shaped cuts and wounds to Kathy’s throat and neck. I’m speculating that during Kathy’s captivity, the neck wound may have something to do with the killer’s involvement with bondage.

The first possibility could be that Kathy’s neck was bound with some kind of a strap or leash. The cuts on her throat and neck may have been caused by metal studs on the strap or leash.

The second possibility could be that Kathy’s neck was bound in some kind of a tourniquet. The tourniquet could have been some kind of a chain or wire that was placed and twisted on the victim’s neck.

So yes, the possibility does exist that the killer could have used a strap, leash, or tourniquet on the neck to choke or sexually asphyxiate the victim which could have caused her neck to be broken.

But if the victim wasn’t strangled with the blouse or bondage paraphernalia, then the military angle has to be considered.

Infantry troops in the military are taught hand to hand combat defenses. They’re also taught how to kill using their bare hands in certain ways.

I believe a combat killing in the neck region involves snapping the neck and causing the spinal cords to be severed.

I wonder if police are able to tell if a neck was broken and the spinal cords were severed without having an autopsy performed to confirm their suspicions.

i spent some time looking at neck snapping techniques due to your posts. I didn't realize it before, but a broken neck can cause suffocation.

so I understand that angle.

I never really thought about the idea that she may have been chained up or made to wear
bondage gear or a dog collar. I always just assumed the wounds were caused by a knife.

I know there is a quasi military technique that uses a victim's clothes etc to bind them. and kill them. and even dismember them. few clues are left.

 

[December]

http://www.emedals.com/collectors-gallery/germany/third-reich-edged-weapons?vmcchk=1

knives and daggers used by Nazis. some have extra pointy parts. maybe brought back as a trophy?

I chose Nazi due to the bondage s and m angle.

 

[December]

http://quanonline.com/military/military_reference/japanese/japanese.html

Japanese bladed weapons... many of which were handed over when they surrendered. though due to differences in design between east and west, these wounds don't sound like they would come from most of these.

 

[December]

Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - FEATURED TN - Kathy Jones, 12, murdered while walking to Nashville skating rink, November 1969

I can see Kathy taking the kid route during the afternoon going from her home to the skating rink.

But I do wonder if Kathy would have been comfortable taking the kid route going thru lots and fields when it was dark at night.

Another thing to think about here. Were there any other abduction attempts or child enticement attempts that occurred in the same area prior to Kathy's abuction?

yes, I believe there were. there was a rape and murder of a babysitter, but that was in 1965.

the link at the top (my phone kawaiily puts links where it pleases) above even your quoted post links to a story about Wanda June Anderson. the article also talks about Eva Green and Kathy.

then there's a link to a post where a woman says a man kept bothering young girls.

 

[December]

A list of serial killers.

List of serial killers in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

this list is scary, but thank you for finding it.

 

[December]

http://www.wsmv.com/story/19024068/cold-case-detectives-seek-publics-help-in-grisly-killings

Eva Green's murder is just so strange. I wonder if someone was afraid she'd tell?

Wanda June Anderson's murder may be related to Kathy's.

 

[bessie]

I can see Kathy taking the kid route during the afternoon going from her home to the skating rink.

But I do wonder if Kathy would have been comfortable taking the kid route going thru lots and fields when it was dark at night.

Another thing to think about here. Were there any other abduction attempts or child enticement attempts that occurred in the same area prior to Kathy's abuction?

I agree. During the day I can see her cutting through the neighborhood or walking along Nolensville, but not at night. It's hard to imagine her walking almost a mile after dark on any route.

FWIW, on the topix forum, a poster said her mom was Kathy's good friend, and that her mom's father (poster's grandfather) offered to give Kathy a ride, but she refused.

Another poster said that she and her sister were almost abducted by a strange man twice shortly before Kathy's murder.

Both statements have to be taken with a grain of salt, naturally, but there might be some truth to them.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/nashville-tn/TAPAQ4326OV40R0OL

 

[December]

u.s. .military knives, all historic eras... I think it goes at least through Vietnam. there is a lot of 19th century stuff to scroll past.

https://www.antiqueswords.com/category.php?i=2

 

[December]

I agree. During the day I can see her cutting through the neighborhood or walking along Nolensville, but not at night. It's hard to imagine her walking almost a mile after dark on any route.

FWIW, on the topix forum, a poster said her mom was Kathy's good friend, and that her mom's father (poster's grandfather) offered to give Kathy a ride, but she refused.

Another poster said that she and her sister were almost abducted by a strange man twice shortly before Kathy's murder.

Both statements have to be taken with a grain of salt, naturally, but there might be some truth to them.

http://www.topix.com/forum/city/nashville-tn/TAPAQ4326OV40R0OL

I believe the part about the man offering Kathy a ride. I bet she just did not recognize him, so thought she'd better walk. it's so heartbreaking. she could have just had fun that night.

with at least two s.o. in the neighborhood, one probably did approach those girls. whether it was 65 or 69 that this happened to the woman, idk.

 

[December]

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garrote

note the execution section.. this could explain some wounds.

 

[kwash]

The Scene article describes the wounds on her neck as "several almond shaped cuts". I think it's possible these could have been caused by her own fingernails if she clawed at/tried to loosen something around her neck. There is no mention that these wounds are deep and the almond shape would be consistent with a cut opened by a fingernail. Also - I don't see mention of another neck wound in the article (seems people here think there was one?), but there is mention of a puncture wound to her chest. Again, no mention of how big/deep this is, but it is possible that it was small and could have been cause by pretty much anything, e.g. a stick, belt buckle, etc.

 

[KariKae]

I believe the part about the man offering Kathy a ride. I bet she just did not recognize him, so thought she'd better walk. it's so heartbreaking. she could have just had fun that night.

with at least two s.o. in the neighborhood, one probably did approach those girls. whether it was 65 or 69 that this happened to the woman, idk.

I also got the impression from reading about the grandfather that Kathy was meeting friends at the skating rink. The grandfather seemed to have dropped Kathy's friends off when he saw Kathy walking and offered her a ride.

If this is the case, I would surmise Kathy did NOT make it to the rink.

If Kathy met up with friends at the rink, she would have been with those friends when it was time to leave. Even if she didn't have a ride, those friends would have offered her a ride. If it was a friend's parent, she would have felt comfortable getting in the car with a friend/parent.

I think Kathy was supposed to meet up with friends at the skating rink and she did not show up.

 

[KariKae]

The Scene article describes the wounds on her neck as "several almond shaped cuts". I think it's possible these could have been caused by her own fingernails if she clawed at/tried to loosen something around her neck. There is no mention that these wounds are deep and the almond shape would be consistent with a cut opened by a fingernail. Also - I don't see mention of another neck wound in the article (seems people here think there was one?), but there is mention of a puncture wound to her chest. Again, no mention of how big/deep this is, but it is possible that it was small and could have been cause by pretty much anything, e.g. a stick, belt buckle, etc.

That makes total sense to me.