Identified! TN - Knox Co, 'Shotgun Jane Doe' WhtFem 607UFTN, 21-30, Jun'87 - Tena Marie Gattrell
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sillygilly
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Pearly, I think they look pretty close, but, 9 years is a long time to be abducted or on the lamb. With drugs and all the crazy stuff in the world.....the slope of the nose looks perfect, to me. The JD I've been working on is a stretch of time, too. I'm thinking of turning my comparisons, as well.
I think since we are seldom told of the personalities, i.e. drug use, abuse at home, of missing persons, anything is possible.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82609
I think since we are seldom told of the personalities, i.e. drug use, abuse at home, of missing persons, anything is possible.
http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=82609
MadeaBecBec
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Yeehaw!!! :woohoo: I finally spoke with Det. Moyers, with Knox County Sheriffs Office, very friendly and accomodating fella! He says the men that Jane was with, one was an older (around 60) man(the vehicle belonged to him) and he had been driven by the younger man (in his late 20's) back to TN. from KY. and the vehicle was not at this home at the time of Janes shooting. The older man had a business not far from the home where Jane was shot. The building they(Jane and men) originally were at, was a place they (the men) would sometimes party at. The men picked Jane up at a Rest Area (just off exit 4)about 4-5 hours the evening before, to give her a ride, however she agreed to "party" with them, so the men took her with them to this building. At the time that they picked her up, the men said she appeared to be high(the Detective will get back to me on toxicology report) and later she started acting even more strange and took off, the younger man, caught up with her and talked her into coming back to the building, it was late, the younger man tells her that she could get arrested or SHOT roaming around this particular neighborhood, as it was off the beaten path and the folks around there all had guns and were VERY protective of their property. Jane remained at the building awhile and then just went berserk, the younger man says, for no "reason" and takes off again on foot, the younger goes after her again, Jane ends up at this house, the younger is arguing with her about coming back to the building, Janes wraps her arms around a post on the porch and tells him, she is not leaving the home, so he turns to head back to the building, Jane is screaming at him, Homeowner gets awakened, Homeowner calls 911 and arms themselves, at the same time yelling through the door that she (homeowner) is armed and calling the Sheriff, younger man yells back, CALL them, I can't do anything with her and continues to walk away, all this can be heard on the 911 tape, Homeowner then says Jane is trying to come through the door, kicking on the door, Homeowner tells Jane, Stop or I'll shoot, Jane doesn't stop and gets shot. The investigators came to the conclusion that Jane was having a "mental" episode before being picked up and during her time with these men.
Jane's clothes were dingy and believed to have been worn for days, the men had given her the Dolphins shirt and the pants she was wearing were well-worn and thin. This younger man had a lengthy criminal record, but nothing violent, mostly petty theft and misdemeanors. The younger man was originally charged with attempted burglary to get him to come back in and give an interview with Detectives, charges were dropped after he cooperated with the investigation. So, no trial for either men. The men do not recall if Jane ever told them her name......
Jane's body details; the Tattoo was homemade, black inked "BJ" (that kind of struck me-Barbara Jean???)and she had given birth at least once, one being a caesarean section, possibly emergency type caesarean, as pelvic bones showed the markings of attempted "normal" birthing. The anthropologist that examined Jane's bones, stated the injuries appeared to be from jumping off of a buildingor high structure, Vertebrae crushed, lower tibias (ankles) being damaged, clavicle (collarbone) fracture and fibula (calf bone) fracture, so Jane may have attempted suicide or had been an athlete (possibly gymnastics) of some sort... The metal plate inserted in fibula did NOT have a serial number on it!
Jane had good teeth and good dental hygiene, no cavities and fairly straight, she did grind her teeth some. Her dentals are available now and DNA is being processed. They have her fingerprints and ran them through AFIS, nothing. However, if Jane had a juvenile record and the Investigators had an idea of where she was from, they could try to match fingerprints that way as juveniles fingerprints are NOT entered into the system, unless tried and convicted as an adult criminal....
Detective Moyers welcomes all viable matches, as they have had few leads on this Jane. I asked Det. Moyers if there had been any festivals or concerts in the area, the week or two before Janes death, NO was the answer to that. Investigators believe Jane was hitch-hiking via truckers/travelers before arriving at the rest area and is not from TN.
Pearly; Barbara Jean looks so close to Jane, I say, SUBMIT her! Strange things happen all the time! If this Jane was on pain meds because of her injuries, that very well could be a reason she was "mental" and it's possible Barbara Jean was injured during an escape, hospitalized, became confused/amnesiatic and wondered around, I have imagined some crazy theories...... Moore Jr, could've told the "story" of Barabara Jeans murder, staged the roped cinder block in the lake, hoping that he would receive the reward money!
Pearly; Billie Jean Hall, Patricia Louise Kelly and June Carpenter Gilkerson have been ruled out, correct?
Jane's clothes were dingy and believed to have been worn for days, the men had given her the Dolphins shirt and the pants she was wearing were well-worn and thin. This younger man had a lengthy criminal record, but nothing violent, mostly petty theft and misdemeanors. The younger man was originally charged with attempted burglary to get him to come back in and give an interview with Detectives, charges were dropped after he cooperated with the investigation. So, no trial for either men. The men do not recall if Jane ever told them her name......
Jane's body details; the Tattoo was homemade, black inked "BJ" (that kind of struck me-Barbara Jean???)and she had given birth at least once, one being a caesarean section, possibly emergency type caesarean, as pelvic bones showed the markings of attempted "normal" birthing. The anthropologist that examined Jane's bones, stated the injuries appeared to be from jumping off of a buildingor high structure, Vertebrae crushed, lower tibias (ankles) being damaged, clavicle (collarbone) fracture and fibula (calf bone) fracture, so Jane may have attempted suicide or had been an athlete (possibly gymnastics) of some sort... The metal plate inserted in fibula did NOT have a serial number on it!
Jane had good teeth and good dental hygiene, no cavities and fairly straight, she did grind her teeth some. Her dentals are available now and DNA is being processed. They have her fingerprints and ran them through AFIS, nothing. However, if Jane had a juvenile record and the Investigators had an idea of where she was from, they could try to match fingerprints that way as juveniles fingerprints are NOT entered into the system, unless tried and convicted as an adult criminal....
Detective Moyers welcomes all viable matches, as they have had few leads on this Jane. I asked Det. Moyers if there had been any festivals or concerts in the area, the week or two before Janes death, NO was the answer to that. Investigators believe Jane was hitch-hiking via truckers/travelers before arriving at the rest area and is not from TN.
Pearly; Barbara Jean looks so close to Jane, I say, SUBMIT her! Strange things happen all the time! If this Jane was on pain meds because of her injuries, that very well could be a reason she was "mental" and it's possible Barbara Jean was injured during an escape, hospitalized, became confused/amnesiatic and wondered around, I have imagined some crazy theories...... Moore Jr, could've told the "story" of Barabara Jeans murder, staged the roped cinder block in the lake, hoping that he would receive the reward money!
Pearly; Billie Jean Hall, Patricia Louise Kelly and June Carpenter Gilkerson have been ruled out, correct?
Correct MBB those are the rule outs so far, will be submitting today for Barbara Jean will keep all of you informed!
P
p.s for clarification - Billie Jean Hall, Patricia Louise Kelly and June Carpenter Gilkerson have been ruled out
P
p.s for clarification - Billie Jean Hall, Patricia Louise Kelly and June Carpenter Gilkerson have been ruled out
Thank you, MadeaBecBec, for the wealth of information! I strongly feel that LE should push to have her Doe Network profile changed. It should mention that the Dolphins jersey was from the men and Jane's original clothes were found at the house (I hope they were, anyway, and kept as evidence?)
It would also be worthwhile to update the Doe Network profile to explain that while LE originally thought the men staged a fight to break in the house, they later claimed Jane panicked, possibly from the drugs, and was shot while trying to enter the house. It might not be the most important detail but if a missing woman had displayed similar behavior before it might trigger the memory of someone who knew her.
Most importantly, her tattoo should be described!
It would also be worthwhile to update the Doe Network profile to explain that while LE originally thought the men staged a fight to break in the house, they later claimed Jane panicked, possibly from the drugs, and was shot while trying to enter the house. It might not be the most important detail but if a missing woman had displayed similar behavior before it might trigger the memory of someone who knew her.
Most importantly, her tattoo should be described!
jessunlil
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I was out of town for a few days and I'm just now catching up, WOW, you guys have done some fantastic sleuthing!
Barbara Jean certainly does look like Jane Doe. Even if the circumstances don't seem to make her the most likely candidate, the resemblence alone makes her worth submitting.
Barbara Jean certainly does look like Jane Doe. Even if the circumstances don't seem to make her the most likely candidate, the resemblence alone makes her worth submitting.
Tatertot I am not 100% but am pretty sure the the doe network is volunteerely (go my spelling:woohoo
run. I discussed this information with family members last night to get their perspective as I have come to have a fairly one tracked mind regarding it.One person suggested that the reason the Dolphins Jersey may be mentioned there is that we only have the word of the men that they gave her they jersey. How reliable are they really IMO????? They didnt even get her name, IMO you dont meet someone and not get there name, even a false one!!! This is why I presume that information is there.
Her clothes would have still been on her as she was shot I dare say.
With respect to the tattoo MBB was told it was BJ by one detective and I have been told that it was BH by another so we need to get this clarified before it goes on any official missing/UID database.
I do agree however that the Doe Network needs to be changed to say that Dentals and Fingerprints are available.
I am still somewhat concerned regarding changing the scenario at this point. Her family may have no knowledge of her 'panic attacks' etc as they may have happened afterwards.
We also need to consider that she has a child out there as well....mindblowing!!!
Hi all me again,
I am going to contact both the Charley Project and the Doe Network with regards to the fact of having added to her profile fingerprints and dentals changed as well as the tattoo once confirmed however I would just like to confirm with my LE contact to see if it is ok to do so prior.
Pearly
I am going to contact both the Charley Project and the Doe Network with regards to the fact of having added to her profile fingerprints and dentals changed as well as the tattoo once confirmed however I would just like to confirm with my LE contact to see if it is ok to do so prior.
Pearly
Thank you for doing that! I see your reasoning and that much information, at least, should be updated on Doe Network when the volunteers get a chance.
You made a good point about the mens' truthfulness being in question, so maybe it should read something like "Jane Doe was found wearing a Miami Dolphins Jersey (description goes here) that the men said they gave her to replace worn and dirty clothing she'd been traveling in (description goes here.) LE did retrieve her traveling clothes from the house." In my earlier post I was referring to the clothes she'd been traveling in and left at the house. I wonder if that clothing would hold any clues to her identity. If it was worn and dirty she'd likely been wearing it a long time and that might mean more people would have seen her wearing it as she traveled.
You made a good point about the mens' truthfulness being in question, so maybe it should read something like "Jane Doe was found wearing a Miami Dolphins Jersey (description goes here) that the men said they gave her to replace worn and dirty clothing she'd been traveling in (description goes here.) LE did retrieve her traveling clothes from the house." In my earlier post I was referring to the clothes she'd been traveling in and left at the house. I wonder if that clothing would hold any clues to her identity. If it was worn and dirty she'd likely been wearing it a long time and that might mean more people would have seen her wearing it as she traveled.
Wow! I haven't been here for a bit - too frustrating! But ya'll have got some GREAT new infornation! I have to say, I'm inclined to believe the account of the younger guy in this story. HOWEVER, it seems even more unlikely to me, if she spent "hours" with them and they gave her clothes to wear, that they never asked or didn't remember her name. WTH?
Definitely great idea to update the fingerprints and dentals on her UID info!!!
I will keep looking. Seems she had been on the streets for awhile and had at least one baby somewhere. Possibly mental instability too???
Definitely great idea to update the fingerprints and dentals on her UID info!!!
I will keep looking. Seems she had been on the streets for awhile and had at least one baby somewhere. Possibly mental instability too???
Sorry have been very busy lately have not heard back from anyone as yet with regards to Barbara Jean or JD information from homicide...will post more information tonight though that I have when I get a chance
Pearly
p.s hope everyone had a good weekend
Pearly
p.s hope everyone had a good weekend
MadeaBecBec
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I heard back from Detective Moyers and he stated the toxicology report showed TN Janes blood alcohol level at 1.3, 1.0 will get you a DUI in Tennessee, so Jane had been drinking... But, to me that's not crazee drunk! The ME usually gets a drug screen (called the down & dirty) of all illicit drugs, too, such as cocaine, meth, heroine, etc., the only drug in Janes system was alcohol...
I know some folks who cannot drink one drop of alcohol, without going off the wall and behaving shamefully, but one time for most of them was all that it took to know that and those folks don't touch alcohol anymore. This may have been what happened with Jane! She could have been on painkillers for her previous injuries, ran out of them and couldn't afford a refill, IDK, but drinking may have been a way to numb her pains.
:waitasec: I have my doubts about younger mans total story! Yes she ran from him and the building, twice, but why??? Why would a girl run from her only transportation out of a place she was totally unfamiliar with (Investigators are sure she wasn't from TN) and take a chance on getting completely lost, albeit inebriated, unless she was desperate and scared? I believe she was more scared than she was inebriated.... I'm guessing the younger man gave her a valid reason to RUN and he's not admitting, ever, what that reason was!! If younger was totally innocent, why then, would charges have to be placed on him by the LE, in order to get him to come back to be re-interviewed? The LE didn't have to do that with the older man!!:crazy:
Now, if we find that Janes background holds other instances of going "berserk" or some type of mental instability, then I'll apologize, here, for not believing youngers tale!!
Janes injuries could've been from a sporting accident, for example, if she had been a climber or a gymnast, she could've received her injuries innocently enough! She may have fell or jumped from a tree, when she was younger, even!!
I'll be back.....
I know some folks who cannot drink one drop of alcohol, without going off the wall and behaving shamefully, but one time for most of them was all that it took to know that and those folks don't touch alcohol anymore. This may have been what happened with Jane! She could have been on painkillers for her previous injuries, ran out of them and couldn't afford a refill, IDK, but drinking may have been a way to numb her pains.
:waitasec: I have my doubts about younger mans total story! Yes she ran from him and the building, twice, but why??? Why would a girl run from her only transportation out of a place she was totally unfamiliar with (Investigators are sure she wasn't from TN) and take a chance on getting completely lost, albeit inebriated, unless she was desperate and scared? I believe she was more scared than she was inebriated.... I'm guessing the younger man gave her a valid reason to RUN and he's not admitting, ever, what that reason was!! If younger was totally innocent, why then, would charges have to be placed on him by the LE, in order to get him to come back to be re-interviewed? The LE didn't have to do that with the older man!!:crazy:
Now, if we find that Janes background holds other instances of going "berserk" or some type of mental instability, then I'll apologize, here, for not believing youngers tale!!
Janes injuries could've been from a sporting accident, for example, if she had been a climber or a gymnast, she could've received her injuries innocently enough! She may have fell or jumped from a tree, when she was younger, even!!
I'll be back.....
Julessleuther
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I agree with you Madea--something is fishy here, but I also think the older guy was involved too. Did they do a rape kit on her? Did the men state if they had sexual contact with her? Why would LE just believe these guys and not suspect that there was some ulterior motive with them?? Did LE know them personally and therefore would not suspect them? I too think she was running from them and trying to get away. It is a shame that the homeowner did not try to understand what she was yelling, she may have been begging for help. Why did the home owner automatically assume that the girl was trouble, and not in trouble?
Hello All,
Thanks MBB for the posting of that -> I agree with your chain of thinking. I was also wondering what the likelihood of older mans story changing now would be that he is older? Maybe he was afraid of the younger man to do anything but go along with his story? I'm not sure.
I have contacted Lee Jantz the ME again to see how the comparison is going between Barbara and Jane Doe.
Furthermore I received the following email from Synthes this morning after I had emailed them regarding the metal plate in her leg
Quote"In regards to your recent inquiry, please be advised that Synthes has sold metallic orthopaedic bone fixation devices (i.e. "plates") since 1975.
Synthes does not maintain tracking to individual patients. Additionally, our records of shipments of products to members of the medical community begin after 1996. Therefore, we are unable to provide information on any product implanted prior to 1996, such as a Jane Doe found in 1987.
I am sorry we were unable to provide any additional information. Fracture fixation is not as "exotic" as it may seem on tv, nor is tracking the hardware as conclusive and immediate as one sees on the typical CSI episode."
Pearly
Thanks MBB for the posting of that -> I agree with your chain of thinking. I was also wondering what the likelihood of older mans story changing now would be that he is older? Maybe he was afraid of the younger man to do anything but go along with his story? I'm not sure.
I have contacted Lee Jantz the ME again to see how the comparison is going between Barbara and Jane Doe.
Furthermore I received the following email from Synthes this morning after I had emailed them regarding the metal plate in her leg
Quote"In regards to your recent inquiry, please be advised that Synthes has sold metallic orthopaedic bone fixation devices (i.e. "plates") since 1975.
Synthes does not maintain tracking to individual patients. Additionally, our records of shipments of products to members of the medical community begin after 1996. Therefore, we are unable to provide information on any product implanted prior to 1996, such as a Jane Doe found in 1987.
I am sorry we were unable to provide any additional information. Fracture fixation is not as "exotic" as it may seem on tv, nor is tracking the hardware as conclusive and immediate as one sees on the typical CSI episode."
Pearly
Tori2
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Hi all!
I've been on WS for a long time but never to one of these types of threads. I am AMAZED at how much you guys do!! I wish I had more time to help out, but maybe this summer when I'm off school.
I was just shocked to see the CharleyProject stuff. How many people have to be murdered in this country before we see things change. Very depressing.
I'm going to continue to check in here b/c it is so interesting. You guys are awesome!
Tori
I've been on WS for a long time but never to one of these types of threads. I am AMAZED at how much you guys do!! I wish I had more time to help out, but maybe this summer when I'm off school.
I was just shocked to see the CharleyProject stuff. How many people have to be murdered in this country before we see things change. Very depressing.
I'm going to continue to check in here b/c it is so interesting. You guys are awesome!
Tori
Hi Tori,
Thanks for looking in on our Tennessee Jane as she is often getting referred to now!
I think I can so on behalf of all of us it is lovely to heat someone say how amazing it is but to me she is just another person who deserves to be returned to her family no matter what happened in her past.
It is truly shocking to see how many people are missing and unidentified in America and all over the world in fact, not only for them but for there families as well. I could not imagine what it would be like to have a missing loved one out there I find it hard enough knowing information about Jane here and not being able to reunite her with her family but for now we are her family I guess and we all do a fantastic job!!!!! :blowkiss:
Just wanted to let everyone know that I am not ignoring our TN Jane, I just have not heard back from anyone at this point in time which is very frustrating I am currently doing this :banghead::banghead::banghead:
MBB have you heard anything?
Pearly
p.s will keep fingers crossed
MBB have you heard anything?
Pearly
p.s will keep fingers crossed
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