TN - Mom of newborn with drugs in system arrested

[Missizzy]

I'm not telling you labor and delivery and NICU nurses anything you don't already know but I learned another fact when we started adopting children who had been born drug exposed. I was so naive.

Many crack and meth using moms who are prostituting to get their drugs will actually take extra drugs in their seventh month to give birth early. The babies will be smaller, thus easier to deliver. They'll also be able to get back out on the streets earlier. Isn't it kind of them to wait until the seventh month when the child has a high chance of making it but will still undoubtedly have delays not to mention the horrifically high cost to taxpayers of the long hospital stays?

Thinking of my eight youngest who all have drug using moms; here's the number of pregnancies: 11, 9, 5, 5, and 4. Remember several of my kids are siblings. There are also a large number of stillbirths and miscarriages but only one abortion noted on all the paperwork I have.

I actually came upon a Craigslist ad once (about 3 months ago) which was advertising the services of a pregnant young woman (far more common that you'd think). She looked like she was somewhere around the 7-8 month mark. She was looking for a "gentleman kind enough to bring on labor for her" as she wanted her "own body back". I was physically sick and flagged it right away. It was still there, though, the next day. I wonder how many men paid to try to bring on labor. It's just sickening.

 

[Filly]

Filly--You're treading on thin ice there, Girl. In many ways I want to say "Yes, a person who gets it!!" I'm going to go out on a limb for just a minute and weigh in on something very controversial. I adore my children. I can't imagine life without them. However, I'm pro-choice and I do parent a few for whom I wish their birth moms had considered that option. Now that they are here on earth and I'm their Mom, I will dedicate my life to them. But they will carry the scars of their birthmoms' drug use, prostitution, abuse, and their premature births with them FOREVER. That's the factor that people forget.

Many (not all) people who are anti-abortion jump up and down saying that there are adoptive families for every child. That is a flat out lie!! If there were, why would we have 300,000 plus waiting for homes. It's because those children are of color and/or have myriad special needs and/or are older and/or are groups of siblings. The blue eyed healthy white babies get snapped up in a heartbeat--at prices verging on the criminal. That's just not what happens for children of color or children with challenges.

That said, think about your comment about abortion. Oh, if I could hand out morning after pills. I'd be sitting in my wheelchair on the street corner!! I'd personally pay for drug using moms to terminate pregnancies in the first couple of weeks--if that's what they wanted. I've learned through experience that many drug using moms don't want to be pregnant but just don't have it together enough to get in and see someone at Planned Parenthood in time. They are too busy turning tricks or drug seeking.

But, how would you and I feel about our government telling us that we had to have an abortion due to the fact that we carried a specific gene, already had too many kids, or were overweight, smoked, or "older"--all risk factors for difficult pregnancies? I've thought about it thousands of times and come to the same conclusion. It's just not possible. We would be outraged if parameters of safety were set up by the government. A 39 year old woman could get pregnant but her 40 year old neighbor would get a notice that she had 30 days to terminate her pregnancy. 175 lbs. would be tolerated for a 5'4" woman but not 200 lbs. See?

We could start by offering low-cost and/or free birth control implants (some last 3 years) or permanent sterilization for women who choose that. We could vote for access to low cost/free abortions when there is a factor of drug use. And to bring up an issue that Impatientredhead brought up, we could remove punitive measures for any mother presenting herself for drug treatment who is pregnant.

Sorry to rant but you touched on a subject that I've been mulling over for 20 years. I honestly don't think that most mothers want to harm their babies. I think that most are exhibiting some "magical thinking" ie. it can't happen to me or he'll get better. See, he has all his little fingers and toes?

Or, I'll give you this....many just aren't thinking.

Sorry to rant at you as you know I love your posts and consider you a friend. It's merely that I WANT your idea to work but I know it won't.

(((hugs)))

Iz, I was being facetious. I always forget that some things don't translate well in writing.

First of all Congrats to Not My Kids. Also to your dear son, Iz.

This is a really tough subject. I wish I had the answers. However not everyone as as strong as NMK and your son, Iz. I don't think there's a woman in the world that would purposely want to expose their unborn child to drugs. Then let's think. Are people in their right minds when they are using? We have different degrees of drug use. Then let's not forget the differences in drugs. A heroin addict is not a meth addict is not a crack addict.

There's no way we can just look at every person out there that's pregnant and know they are using. Specifically we're talking about the girl my original post is about. Oxycontin. I've seen people kick that. The mere fact knowing some poor helpless baby has to suffer that makes me irate. However, this girl we don't know her. We don't know her circumstances.

Then there's the whole fact that there's no man responsible. I've seen this as well. Of course they are not physically harming an unborn child and ultimately it is the mother's duty, but once again they're off the hook.

Maybe this would be the right thing to do. Forced sterilization? This is a good link and it's a non profit traveling the country offering addicts $300.00 to be sterilized or $300.00 a year to use birth control for that year. There's 3,000 women that took the offer. 27 men. TWENTY SEVEN!

Again I don't have the answers. I just know when someone is afraid they'll get sick or busted they're not going to seek help. I have great admiration in people that care for these baby dolls like you do Iz. I have a friend who has been through it all just as you have. I love her dearly. She's now been able to adopt two of the twelve kids she has foster parented over the years.

Then I also have great admiration for anyone that has kicked their habit. Unfortunately not every person can or will. Pregnant or not. Thus the debate. Oh and I am pro choice. Abortion should always be safe and legal. That's another ball of wax. I'm just thankful I live in a time period where it is safe and legal. All the best for all of us and especially for the babies and for the mommy's as well. Prayers that they seek help before they hurt their children. Link to voluntary sterilization.

http://www.thefrisky.com/post/246-non-profit-pays-drug-addicted-women-300-to-go-on-birth-control/

 

[Missizzy]

A great link, Filly. And trust me, you and I are on the very same page!! I actually think that this is the very same I group I mentioned on another thread. A group of adoptive parents of special needs kids was instrumental in starting it but there's been some bumps along the road. There's some real murky water there, that's for sure. But bless them for trying.

You are correct in that there's no single answer. Every woman and every situation is different. We also have to wake up and smell the coffee concerning legal drugs which are being prescribed to child-bearing aged women at record numbers. We're not sure yet what the outcome of babies born to moms using all the new anti-depressants will be.

We've got to come up with something, though, as our society just cannot support a drug exposed generation. It's one thing to be short a few IQ points. It's quite another to have no understanding of reason or consequences. There is a huge link to criminal behavior for many of these children (whether they stay in their homes of origin or are adopted). It's just not fair to cut them off at the knees at birth and then expect them to run the marathon. Not fair at all.

 

[TaylorJ4]

Addiction is a horrible disease. I have an addict in my life and I have prayed that he got arrested and locked up so the courts would force him into treatment, as he is unwilling to do so on his own...

 

[Filly]

Addiction is a horrible disease. I have an addict in my life and I have prayed that he got arrested and locked up so the courts would force him into treatment, as he is unwilling to do so on his own...

Taylor, I'm so sorry for your pain. Never give up hope though. Never.

Oh and Iz, don't be treadin on thin ice, Girl. LOL When I saw you psot that I was going "Oh no she didn't".

Much respect for everyone who posted in this thread. Basically we all want the same thing. A chance for these babies. A chance for their momma's. Taylor, we'll be thinking of you.

 

[not_my_kids]

Oxy is an opiate (I think). Opiates are hard to break. They also cause a LOT of the really bad prenatal side effects; the heart defects, lung defects, brain defects.

And it's made all the more difficult by the fact that there are multiple ways to abuse it. The pills themselves, mixing it for a needle, crushing it to snort. Usually the needle is the end. After that doesn't work anymore, an Oxy addict usually becomes a heroin addict. It isn't pretty.

Where was this woman (she is not a girl) on that spectrum? Does it say anywhere? If she were still just taking the pills whole, then I blame her entirely. If she was at the needle stage, I would believe she was not in her right mind (fully). Oxy knocks you on your butt. Even hard core users with a high tolerance tend to nod off fast. The most animated part of an Oxy high is getting the drug. Valium does the same thing. So to me, she is hooked on being numb. I doubt the drug matters to her, as long as she gets very numb, very fast.

Now, I can say, addiction is a cycle, it is hard to break out of. You take the drug, and then you feel bad for taking the drug, but that feeling is uncomfortable, so you take more drugs to get rid of it. Then you feel worse, so you need more drugs...before you know it, your body is convinced it can't function without the drug, and it doesn't matter what your mind wants. However, you still know it's wrong. Even if you don't want to quit, when confronted with those 2 little lines, most people are capable of realizing that they will hate themselves more for harming the child. Addicts are capable of making decisions, and on occasion, these can be carefully thought out.

Could she have stopped, even if she wanted to? Likely not without help. Could she have screamed from the rooftops that she needed help to save her child? Yes. She didn't.

 

[Filly]

Oxy is an opiate (I think). Opiates are hard to break. They also cause a LOT of the really bad prenatal side effects; the heart defects, lung defects, brain defects.

And it's made all the more difficult by the fact that there are multiple ways to abuse it. The pills themselves, mixing it for a needle, crushing it to snort. Usually the needle is the end. After that doesn't work anymore, an Oxy addict usually becomes a heroin addict. It isn't pretty.

Where was this woman (she is not a girl) on that spectrum? Does it say anywhere? If she were still just taking the pills whole, then I blame her entirely. If she was at the needle stage, I would believe she was not in her right mind (fully). Oxy knocks you on your butt. Even hard core users with a high tolerance tend to nod off fast. The most animated part of an Oxy high is getting the drug. Valium does the same thing. So to me, she is hooked on being numb. I doubt the drug matters to her, as long as she gets very numb, very fast.

Now, I can say, addiction is a cycle, it is hard to break out of. You take the drug, and then you feel bad for taking the drug, but that feeling is uncomfortable, so you take more drugs to get rid of it. Then you feel worse, so you need more drugs...before you know it, your body is convinced it can't function without the drug, and it doesn't matter what your mind wants. However, you still know it's wrong. Even if you don't want to quit, when confronted with those 2 little lines, most people are capable of realizing that they will hate themselves more for harming the child. Addicts are capable of making decisions, and on occasion, these can be carefully thought out.

Could she have stopped, even if she wanted to? Likely not. Could she have screamed from the rooftops that she needed help to save her child? Yes. She didn't.

No she didn't scream for help, and again I am not condoning her behavior. The fact the mother herself is living is miraculous because Oxy's and valium? It didn't say about what method she used, NMK. She didn't ask for help who knows why? I wish she had. I really do.

Oxycontin is expensive. Heroin is not. Well, that's the trick. Not until you're doing 12 bags a day. I've seen people kick Oxy's and it's worse than a heroin kick. They give methadone to oxy users as readily as they dole it out to heroin users who want to quit. So, this mom could have done that. I think anyway. In our State a pregnant woman on heroin is given methadone. Then the whole weaning thing. Valium? Man, that benzo kick would probably have been the hardest on the baby.

I'd mentioned the different kind of drugs because of that. Apparently the scarriest thing for a heroin/oxy addict is getting sick. Also, these young people they figure pills are not a big deal. Heck, heroin is almost 100% pure. No need to shoot it. They figure "I'm not some old head junkie nodding on the corner with a needle in my arm". They snort it. Eventually it leads to the needle in most cases but it's not the heroin of the old days.

Maybe it's a Blessing that heroin often stops a woman's cycle, and she can't get pregnant. Then again I've seen plenty of heroin addicted women give birth. Unfortunately more than one child too. It's sad. Sad when the mother skips out of the hospital because she has to go get high while a baby suffers.

I'm thinking that sterilization/birth control thing may be a good idea. $300.00? Imagine how many caps of crack that would buy? How many bags of dope? Oh, wait giving an addict money is never a good idea. Maybe unless it saves one more child from being born to suffer.

Again, mucho respect for you NMK.

 

[Filly]

Oh I forgot to say another harmful effect to the baby? Children exposed to drugs in utero are at greater risk of becoming addicts. That coupled with a parent or both being addicts puts you up there.

There's alot of studies out there. One even says that children of alcoholic fathers are at greater risk of becoming heroin addicts.

I'm a big believer in nurture over biology though so there's great hope.

We have to hope y'all.

 

[Truthful Lies]

Don't forget about benzo's (the valium) being used to "home detox". It's pretty common knowledge to opiate addicts to put yourself to sleep for a couple of days to escape the horrible withdrawals if you run out or need to clean out (edited to add: or any drug, I guess...I'm only intimately familiar with opiate addiction).

I've done it myself.

It's better than feeling like a train hit you for days...you sleep through the worst of it. She may have been trying to wean down. Not excusing her, but the valium in her system didn't make sense until I thought about it...she was probably lowering herself off. I hope for the baby's sake, and not just so she wouldn't get caught with a tox screen. I realize it would have been way too late, but here's hoping..... I pray it all goes okay.

 

[Truthful Lies]

And please forgive me for asking you guys this, as it's slight O.T., but I'm hunting around trying to find info on how long one would need to have a completely clean system before conceiving to minimize risks. I can't really find anything. (Reason I'm asking is, I'm prescribed 40 mg a day of Vicodin and deal with a lot of pain. I WILL go completely without and hire a freaking in-home meditation coach if I have to...but I'm wondering if 6 months beforehand is enough time to clean my system out for a few years for pregnancy + baby + breastfeeding. )

Does this girl have legitimate chronic pain issues and somehow started taking way too much?

Maybe I'll learn how to control the pain without, but sometimes I wonder if it's not as bad as I remember. Anyway, don't really want to ask my family doc..would really like it if anyone knows anything.

 

[Filly]

And please forgive me for asking you guys this, as it's slight O.T., but I'm hunting around trying to find info on how long one would need to have a completely clean system before conceiving to minimize risks. I can't really find anything. (Reason I'm asking is, I'm prescribed 40 mg a day of Vicodin and deal with a lot of pain. I WILL go completely without and hire a freaking in-home meditation coach if I have to...but I'm wondering if 6 months beforehand is enough time to clean my system out for a few years for pregnancy + baby + breastfeeding. )

Does this girl have legitimate chronic pain issues and somehow started taking way too much?

Maybe I'll learn how to control the pain without, but sometimes I wonder if it's not as bad as I remember. Anyway, don't really want to ask my family doc..would really like it if anyone knows anything.

TL, I am no Doctor. I can't advise. I do know that opiates are fat soluble. It depends on the amount and frequency of use. I mean as far as it getting out of your system. Sometimes it's 4 days or so. Those benzo's are another story.

I'd be more concerned about your pain. The psychological part as well of not having the medication to help you. Pain puts such a stress on your body.

I understand you don't want to ask your family Doctor. Maybe you can go to another Doctor and tell him straight out your concerns. You're being responsible. You already know what the withdrawl is like and no doubt how quickly your pain returns. I'd definitely go to a professional and talk it over. Plus you'll have to be concerned about the pain after your baby is born. I know some women who have used accupuncture. They swear by it.

Again I'm not a Doctor. LOL No, c*it so I am not advising, but the mental part is tough. I pray you feel better. It could be this woman with the drug addicted baby was taking medication for legitimate pain. However, I don't think any Doctor in his right mind would be handing out Oxy's to a young girl. I looked on her Mysapce. Smiling, beautiful, cheerleader. Could be anyone's daughter, sister, friend. Then again that's the ugliness of the drugs. It rips families apart. Allows you to keep taking heavy duty medication while you're pregnant. Sad. Sad for everyone.

Feel better.

 

[Missizzy]

Taylor--Just when you've given up all hope, sometimes someone comes around. It has to come from within (or from a higher power than you or me). We can stand ready to celebrate but we have to take care of our own needs until that sunny day arrives. Just don't give up hope. (((hugs)))

And Filly, what would I do without your sassy, facetious, wonderfully wicked take on life? You always make me smile. Darn my good girl Baptist upbringing, I want to be a tougher girl than I am. My family makes fun (good-hearted) of me as I can't even say naughty words. I want too, though, after being on WS. You shoot from the hip the way I wish I could.

 

[Missizzy]

As we write, I'm hand holding a very committed 26 year old who's trying to go cold turkey off tobacco and pot so she can get pregnant within the next few months. She actually has a medical pot card as she has an autoimmune disease and it's not easy but she wants a drug free baby. Her first child, a seven year old, is clean as a whistle and sharp as a tack. She grew up with eight younger siblings with severe drug exposure so she knows the value of a "clean" pregnancy. My heart goes out to you, TL. I'll do some research too and see what I can find. Bless you for trying so hard to do the right thing.

 

[southcitymom]

I have no sympathy for this woman.
I was 20, heavily addicted to drugs...and I mean heavily. I got pregnant, and although it took me three tries, I quit. My first conversation with my doctor:
Doc: You're pregnant.
Me: I am addicted to amphetamines and need help.
Doc: Let's set you up with the social worker and I'll get you some handouts. Wait here.

It really wasn't that hard. The quitting was, but the initial steps to save my child's life were as easy as 8 words.
I am proabortion. (Not for myself, but I defend a woman's right to choose. My choice is life.)
I don't think that all druggies should abort, but I do think that we should start civil commitment for pregnant druggies. I'm sorry, but I do. If they want to destroy their own lives, that's fine. Once they become pregnant, it is not just their own body. Commit them civilly, or offer them the option of abortion. But letting them just stay pregnant and stay users is not helping anyone.

Y'all are all touching on a question I want to ask of people who are anti-choice/pro-life regarding abortion.

In your opinion, what would the lesser of two evils be in the case of a using, drug addicted pregnant woman - abortion or giving birth to a child who has been exposed to drugs in utero for nine months?

I do understand in the best of all worlds, the women would, like NMK, stop using. But that's not one of the choices in my question.

For me - God bless this woman and her child. I hope they both get better. I can't judge her harshly because "there but for the grace of God" and all that.

 

[Truthful Lies]

TL, I am no Doctor. I can't advise. I do know that opiates are fat soluble. It depends on the amount and frequency of use. I mean as far as it getting out of your system. Sometimes it's 4 days or so. Those benzo's are another story.

I'd be more concerned about your pain. The psychological part as well of not having the medication to help you. Pain puts such a stress on your body.

I understand you don't want to ask your family Doctor. Maybe you can go to another Doctor and tell him straight out your concerns. You're being responsible. You already know what the withdrawl is like and no doubt how quickly your pain returns. I'd definitely go to a professional and talk it over. Plus you'll have to be concerned about the pain after your baby is born. I know some women who have used accupuncture. They swear by it.

Again I'm not a Doctor. LOL No, c*it so I am not advising, but the mental part is tough. I pray you feel better. It could be this woman with the drug addicted baby was taking medication for legitimate pain. However, I don't think any Doctor in his right mind would be handing out Oxy's to a young girl. I looked on her Mysapce. Smiling, beautiful, cheerleader. Could be anyone's daughter, sister, friend. Then again that's the ugliness of the drugs. It rips families apart. Allows you to keep taking heavy duty medication while you're pregnant. Sad. Sad for everyone.

Feel better.

Thanks, very much =) I was one of those idiots that just went along with what the docs prescribed (and some of the best ones in the area, at that). I was offered anything I wanted...how irresponsible of them! I was just divorced and depressed...didn't care if I got addicted (I wasn't thinking straight) as I was alone (no kids).

I will surely clean my system out for at least 6 months before trying to conceive - we are going to go to a fertility specialist to have things analyzed and I will speak with him about it...I've already been cutting down, but wow...it's very hard.

Luckily, my life has changed and I don't have the stress of a 9 to 5 grind, so psycologically, things are very different...I forget to take them until I start sweating and feeling horrible...it's now a physical addiction.

Thank you so much, everyone who answered....you are my web family, and are always supportive and loving. Much love to you all.

 

[Filly]

Thanks, very much =) I was one of those idiots that just went along with what the docs prescribed (and some of the best ones in the area, at that). I was offered anything I wanted...how irresponsible of them! I was just divorced and depressed...didn't care if I got addicted (I wasn't thinking straight) as I was alone (no kids).

I will surely clean my system out for at least 6 months before trying to conceive - we are going to go to a fertility specialist to have things analyzed and I will speak with him about it...I've already been cutting down, but wow...it's very hard.

Luckily, my life has changed and I don't have the stress of a 9 to 5 grind, so psycologically, things are very different...I forget to take them until I start sweating and feeling horrible...it's now a physical addiction.

Thank you so much, everyone who answered....you are my web family, and are always supportive and loving. Much love to you all.

Sweetie, you're no idiot.

Hey, considering you chose Vicodin over other drugs I'd say you chose the lesser of alot of evils. Man, fentanyl, oxycontin are way worse. Just my opinion. Tapering would be your best bet.

You're going to the fertility Doctor. If not being too newsy do you have endometriosis? Again, I'm not Doctor, but I should be when it comes to endometrisos. That is legitimate pain. Back when I had it though they gave you Naprosyn or some other anti-inflammatory. Looking back I guess all that rocking back and forth and head banging was a better option than opiates. Then again if they told me dog doop would take away that pain I may have ate it. LOL True though.

There's always hope. Don't blame yourself. You're taking responsibility.

 

[Filly]

Here's some good news.

This little doll baby is said to be fine and living with his dad and family.

Mom, Jessica Whitaker got one year in prison. Hopefully she is staying clean in there and can get good resources when she gets out.

Note the link is about another woman from the same place as Whitaker who the same thing happened to. However, someone linked at this link what happened about this newborn.



http://www.topix.com/forum/city/rogersville-tn/T1N15VQCAA9ARA3TN

 

[mikeysmommom]

I am not bashing the Mother, however at 21 years old she should know that what she ingests can affect her child for his entire life. I am glad to see that CS and the DA are holding her accountable and pray that this baby grows up with all the love and care he needs. IMO, if you can't give up harmful things during pregnancy and give your baby a chance it is abuse.

MOO

ITA and that reporter stating" The only ill effect reported in court documents was that the child has been placed on medication for seizures" is horrendous.That a child is having seizures and needs anti seizure medication which can have horrible side effects because of his mothers bad decisions is sickening to me.Who knows the long term damage to that child because of his mom's actions.Every state should have mandatory drug tests and paternity tests as soon as a child is born.The odds of a drug addict mother staying clean is very slim.Sorry but at 21 she is old enough to know better, and if she isnt she has no right to that child I hope she goes to jail and she loses custody before she can inflict further damage or possible death due to her issues.:furious: