Found Deceased TN - Noah Chamberlin, 2, Pinson, 14 Jan 2016 - #1

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  • #561
I apologize for the double post, but it seems I am alone here at this moment. What worries me the most is the absence of soiled underpants or a diaper. Little boys can't hold it forever. Sometimes they don't even realize they need to go now! Talk about a great big red flag for searchers or search dogs. And we have nothing. Did a bad guy lurk in the woods and kidnap this poor child? It is possible. Or maybe he was never there. I don't want to condemn anyone but it seems that other alternatives have proved to be fruitless.
 
  • #562
They must find Noah today, they just must :please:
 
  • #563
Hoping!

Sent from my SM-N900V using Tapatalk
 
  • #564
My two-yr-old grandbaby boy could be gone in a heartbeat, even with careful supervision. He takes after his daddy, who can be gone for an hour before you realize he's gone. That guy is like a ninja. My daughter was NEVER like that. She wouldn't have wandered off like that, and if she did, she would have sounded like an elephant in the forest.

I think Noah's in a sinkhole. I read the comments on the "official" missing fb page, and it's terrifying to hear how deep these holes can be (in one instance, a 10-foot-pole did not reach the bottom), and how MANY there must be on this property. I am comforted with the thought that if he is, in fact, in a sinkhole, he could actually be in good shape. The temperature would be warmer in there than out in the open.

After reading lots of good things about this family, I firmly believe this is a terrible tragedy that nobody could have prevented. I'll continue to take my baby hiking because you can't live your life afraid of the woods (or the city, or the ocean...), but you better bet he's been wearing neon since Deorr and Jerold disappeared. In fact, he wears a lighted bracelet on his ankle at night when we're camping. Sorry I have nothing useful to add to the search effort, but I just had to go on record saying that I trust the family and my heart is breaking for the grandmother, especially.
 
  • #565
I apologize for the double post, but it seems I am alone here at this moment. What worries me the most is the absence of soiled underpants or a diaper. Little boys can't hold it forever. Sometimes they don't even realize they need to go now! Talk about a great big red flag for searchers or search dogs. And we have nothing. Did a bad guy lurk in the woods and kidnap this poor child? It is possible. Or maybe he was never there. I don't want to condemn anyone but it seems that other alternatives have proved to be fruitless.
TGIRecovered, I love this forum because we can all get our ideas out without fear of being bashed or ridiculed for them. It's great to have different opinions here, in such a civil manner.

As for the diaper, I can't understand why search dogs can't find a stinky baby diaper, either. Do they not train these dogs for this? In my experience, the diaper would still be on the baby. We've spent a lot of time training our kid to keep the diaper on. You definitely don't want a toddler to know how to take off his pants and diaper.
 
  • #566
Hmmm so maybe he fell into one of these uprooted tree holes... :(

You said they are quite shallow though, how shallow generally? He's so little... :(

Eta: (Man, so many sad smileys used in this thread)
:(

The size of the hole depends on the size (diameter) of the tree. I've seen many 2-3 feet deep. The holes are slightly angled and would also be a good place to crawl into. There's something else that has been bothering me and I hesitated mentioning it at first, because the possibility is so sad. But this time of year with the rains that have come through the area, there would be a lot of mushrooms on the floor of the woods. A child who is hungry might eat them and get very sick. I'm hoping this isn't what happened, but I guess it's a possibility. :(
 
  • #567
I hear you on the mushrooms, but that only intensifies the smells a search dog would be looking for. Baby boy, where are you?
 
  • #568
I am a mom and a gramma of my precious 4 year old grandson. I guess you might call me a "young" gramma because I am physically fit and extremely aware of my surroundings and the dangers of being in-attentive, even momentarily, when my grandson is with me. I am having a very hard time imagining how this little boy got so far away, so quickly, that even tracking dogs can't pick up a scent after two long days of searching. I don't think he is there, in the woods. I'm sorry, I just don't.

My mom is a grandma, and she is not young and not physically fit. She's also pretty unaware of her surroundings a lot of the time. I could see her EASILY losing track of a toddler in the woods if she was trekking with two little ones.

I hadn't thought about the diaper issue you brought up.
 
  • #569
I hear you on the mushrooms, but that only intensifies the smells a search dog would be looking for. Baby boy, where are you?

I'm not sure if I understand, unless you're referring to cadaver dogs.
 
  • #570
Does anybody know if there is a map showing the areas that have been searched in lieu of areas that haven't ? I'm sure the people running the search have one, sometimes they make that information available to the media, and sometimes they don't.

I'm asking because of chatter I've read, left over the night hours, about them searching in the area directly behind the house, which is where he disappeared. Obviously that area would be top priority, but I would think just about everything in a two mile radius would be top priority as well, whether it's on other people's property or not. Once he was lost and turned around, Noah could have headed off in any direction, and may have switched directions repeatedly before it got dark. There's also the chance that he traveled in a virtual straight line, following a trail.

If he was pretty mobile and agile, and it sounds as if he was, then he could easily travel at least a mile and maybe a couple in a 2-3 hour timespan. What sticks in my mind is that there was no response what-so-ever to the original LE people that showed up. That means Noah was either out of sight and sound range, or he was incapacitated. This would have been within the first hour after the 911 call came in. Due to the intense search efforts in the immediate area he was last seen, and with them finding no trace of him, I'm left with the conclusion that he was moving at a pretty high rate of speed and was already out of the area when the first LE searchers arrived.

This is very reminiscent of the 5 year old boy that disappeared here in Arizona near the Grand Canyon earlier this year. When he was finally found, it was discovered that he had walked over 8 1/2 miles before he collapsed and died. They surmised that he traveled the majority of that distance on the first day, just as the search for him was getting organized and going into full swing. Much like this case, they concentrated the first 24 hours of searching in about a one mile radius, and then slowly fanned out after nothing was found. The "expert" search crews were shocked that he had traveled that far, and he was eventually discovered by local volunteer searchers. Of course, the high priced tracking dogs never picked up a scent, but that's another waste of taxpayer resources that can be discussed elsewhere.


I think Noah traveled a pretty good distance that first afternoon. The weather was pretty decent, the sun was shining, and there were a few hours of daylight prior to it getting dark. There's really no reason why he couldn't have covered a lot of ground during those initial 3 to 4 hours. A map showing the areas that have been heavily searched versus lightly searched or not searched at all would come in handy. If such a map exists, some of the volunteer searchers may have snapped a pic of it and posted it elsewhere on social media. I haven't seen anything at all like that in the MSM.
 
  • #571
I'm not sure if I understand, unless you're referring to cadaver dogs.

Maybe TGI meant he would have thrown up or had a diarrhea?
 
  • #572
I am a mom and a gramma of my precious 4 year old grandson. I guess you might call me a "young" gramma because I am physically fit and extremely aware of my surroundings and the dangers of being in-attentive, even momentarily, when my grandson is with me. I am having a very hard time imagining how this little boy got so far away, so quickly, that even tracking dogs can't pick up a scent after two long days of searching. I don't think he is there, in the woods. I'm sorry, I just don't.

I think we can discount the tracking dogs in this case. They couldn't even pick up a scent from where they knew for a fact that child was. That child had been all OVER that backyard, but the tracking dogs couldn't locate the scent. I think at this point we have to decide 1. the whole thing is a lie and that boy didn't live in that house OR 2. the child didn't leave a reliable scent
 
  • #573
Does anybody know if there is a map showing the areas that have been searched in lieu of areas that haven't ? I'm sure the people running the search have one, sometimes they make that information available to the media, and sometimes they don't.

I'm asking because of chatter I've read, left over the night hours, about them searching in the area directly behind the house, which is where he disappeared. Obviously that area would be top priority, but I would think just about everything in a two mile radius would be top priority as well, whether it's on other people's property or not. Once he was lost and turned around, Noah could have headed off in any direction, and may have switched directions repeatedly before it got dark. There's also the chance that he traveled in a virtual straight line, following a trail.

If he was pretty mobile and agile, and it sounds as if he was, then he could easily travel at least a mile and maybe a couple in a 2-3 hour timespan. What sticks in my mind is that there was no response what-so-ever to the original LE people that showed up. That means Noah was either out of sight and sound range, or he was incapacitated. This would have been within the first hour after the 911 call came in. Due to the intense search efforts in the immediate area he was last seen, and with them finding no trace of him, I'm left with the conclusion that he was moving at a pretty high rate of speed and was already out of the area when the first LE searchers arrived.

This is very reminiscent of the 5 year old boy that disappeared here in Arizona near the Grand Canyon earlier this year. When he was finally found, it was discovered that he had walked over 8 1/2 miles before he collapsed and died. They surmised that he traveled the majority of that distance on the first day, just as the search for him was getting organized and going into full swing. Much like this case, they concentrated the first 24 hours of searching in about a one mile radius, and then slowly fanned out after nothing was found. The "expert" search crews were shocked that he had traveled that far, and he was eventually discovered by local volunteer searchers. Of course, the high priced tracking dogs never picked up a scent, but that's another waste of taxpayer resources that can be discussed elsewhere.


I think Noah traveled a pretty good distance that first afternoon. The weather was pretty decent, the sun was shining, and there were a few hours of daylight prior to it getting dark. There's really no reason why he couldn't have covered a lot of ground during those initial 3 to 4 hours. A map showing the areas that have been heavily searched versus lightly searched or not searched at all would come in handy. If such a map exists, some of the volunteer searchers may have snapped a pic of it and posted it elsewhere on social media. I haven't seen anything at all like that in the MSM.


Good thoughts steelman. I agree he's probably farther away than they think. Or in a sinkhole.
 
  • #574
Hi, everyone. I heard about Noah the day he went missing but haven't had time to get on here until now and I haven't read this thread. Before I do so, I'd like to know how long Noah's grandmother was talking to her granddaughter before she realized Noah was gone. Thanks.
 
  • #575
My mom is a grandma, and she is not young and not physically fit. She's also pretty unaware of her surroundings a lot of the time. I could see her EASILY losing track of a toddler in the woods if she was trekking with two little ones.

I hadn't thought about the diaper issue you brought up.

I'm not a grandma yet, but most of my friends are becoming grandparents or have little grandkids. We had a discussion last week because one of them was watching 2 kids roughly the Chamberlin kid's age for 4 days while the parents took a vacation. They were all laughing about how exhausting it is to take care little ones for that long, it just wipes you out. These are fit women, who successfully raised kids of their own. We concluded it's a brain thing. Mothers with little ones have a level of hyper-awareness where they know where their kids are at all times, who needs a snack, who need a nap, who needs a diaper change. It just works in their heads. The way we, in our lives, know which spades have been played in a hand of bridge. We certainly have the mental capacity and physical endurance to take care of kids, we're just out of practice.

I think this grandma was sitting with the 4 year old for quite some time, never looking up to see where Noah was, or even thinking of him. And I think (as Steelman and others have mentioned) it's likely he went off in a COMPLETELY other direction than into the woods behind the house. He may have headed to the front yard, and walked down the road a mile before crossing the road and heading north. And he may be 10 miles into that trek.
 
  • #576
[snip]

If he was pretty mobile and agile, and it sounds as if he was, then he could easily travel at least a mile and maybe a couple in a 2-3 hour timespan. What sticks in my mind is that there was no response what-so-ever to the original LE people that showed up. That means Noah was either out of sight and sound range, or he was incapacitated. This would have been within the first hour after the 911 call came in. Due to the intense search efforts in the immediate area he was last seen, and with them finding no trace of him, I'm left with the conclusion that he was moving at a pretty high rate of speed and was already out of the area when the first LE searchers arrived.

[snip]

I think Noah traveled a pretty good distance that first afternoon. The weather was pretty decent, the sun was shining, and there were a few hours of daylight prior to it getting dark. There's really no reason why he couldn't have covered a lot of ground during those initial 3 to 4 hours. A map showing the areas that have been heavily searched versus lightly searched or not searched at all would come in handy. If such a map exists, some of the volunteer searchers may have snapped a pic of it and posted it elsewhere on social media. I haven't seen anything at all like that in the MSM.

I'm with you, Steelman. If he's not in a sinkhole, I think he is far, far away from the original point. Some small children can go miles without stopping.

Here is an article written by a searcher in the Jerold Williams case. It is about lessons he learned during the search. One of his suggestions is that if volunteers are not allowed (or needed) in the immediate area, that they be directed to search OUTSIDE the perimeter of the recommended search area. In Noah's case, iirc, they are not using volunteers today. I would imagine there are hundreds, if not a thousand, people willing to search today, on a Sunday. I wish/hope they would tell them to search outside the official search area. And yes, a map would be helpful.

http://utahgeology.com/391/take-away-lessons-from-my-experience-with-the-jerold-williams-search/
 
  • #577
Does anybody know if there is a map showing the areas that have been searched in lieu of areas that haven't ? I'm sure the people running the search have one, sometimes they make that information available to the media, and sometimes they don't.

I'm asking because of chatter I've read, left over the night hours, about them searching in the area directly behind the house, which is where he disappeared. Obviously that area would be top priority, but I would think just about everything in a two mile radius would be top priority as well, whether it's on other people's property or not. Once he was lost and turned around, Noah could have headed off in any direction, and may have switched directions repeatedly before it got dark. There's also the chance that he traveled in a virtual straight line, following a trail.

If he was pretty mobile and agile, and it sounds as if he was, then he could easily travel at least a mile and maybe a couple in a 2-3 hour timespan. What sticks in my mind is that there was no response what-so-ever to the original LE people that showed up. That means Noah was either out of sight and sound range, or he was incapacitated. This would have been within the first hour after the 911 call came in. Due to the intense search efforts in the immediate area he was last seen, and with them finding no trace of him, I'm left with the conclusion that he was moving at a pretty high rate of speed and was already out of the area when the first LE searchers arrived.

This is very reminiscent of the 5 year old boy that disappeared here in Arizona near the Grand Canyon earlier this year. When he was finally found, it was discovered that he had walked over 8 1/2 miles before he collapsed and died. They surmised that he traveled the majority of that distance on the first day, just as the search for him was getting organized and going into full swing. Much like this case, they concentrated the first 24 hours of searching in about a one mile radius, and then slowly fanned out after nothing was found. The "expert" search crews were shocked that he had traveled that far, and he was eventually discovered by local volunteer searchers. Of course, the high priced tracking dogs never picked up a scent, but that's another waste of taxpayer resources that can be discussed elsewhere.


I think Noah traveled a pretty good distance that first afternoon. The weather was pretty decent, the sun was shining, and there were a few hours of daylight prior to it getting dark. There's really no reason why he couldn't have covered a lot of ground during those initial 3 to 4 hours. A map showing the areas that have been heavily searched versus lightly searched or not searched at all would come in handy. If such a map exists, some of the volunteer searchers may have snapped a pic of it and posted it elsewhere on social media. I haven't seen anything at all like that in the MSM.
I totally agree Steelman.
I have not read either of any searching other than behind the home.
With the hundreds of searchers he should have been found IMO
I too think Noah went in another direction and went far.





Sent from my Nexus 6 using Tapatalk
 
  • #578
Hi, everyone. I heard about Noah the day he went missing but haven't had time to get on here until now and I haven't read this thread. Before I do so, I'd like to know how long Noah's grandmother was talking to her granddaughter before she realized Noah was gone. Thanks.

She hasn't said publicly. She may not really even know - panic has a way of changing your perception of time.
 
  • #579
For what it's worth, my soon to be three year old and I go walk a nature preserve nearby and do what is about a 6 mile walk at least once a week. When she was about a few months past two she could easily walk almost the entire thing before she wanted me to strap her in the carrier. I'm not sure exactly when she started walking the whole way, but it's rare I ever put her in her carrier now. It usually takes us about 2 hours, maybe 2 and half if we find a turtle or something interesting to watch. However, I do keep her on a kid leash because, she is fast. I'm sure we could actually walk it more quickly but that is our "reconnect" with nature time.
 
  • #580
Thanks. It just amazes me at how quickly little ones can go missing even when the time span is only a few minutes. One would think they'd be found fairly quickly by calling their name and running in circles trying to find them but we all know that's not always the case.
 
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