Found Deceased TN - Noah Chamberlin, 2, Pinson, 14 Jan 2016 - #2

[Ontario Mom]

Hi everyone. I too am new here. Initially created an account on WS for another case but this case is fairly local to me and I can't shake it. I've been following since the first thread. First, I want to say I appreciate what you guys do here. I felt like I was going a little nutty reading responses elsewhere.

Anyways, I do not want to break the rules, so please do not shun me if I do! I will do better. Promise

Getting to my question. Is it possible that they have had evidence for days but want to be as tight lipped about it as possible? Is that common? I have read a fairly interesting post by a searcher who as far as I can tell was truly a searcher this past weekend. They have been fairly mum in the press conferences but I almost wonder if they know more. All cases I have ever followed, I don't feel like I have ever seen such a tight lipped group. I can't blame them. So, I'm just curious if it would be crazy if they have more than they are letting on in terms of physical evidence?

I am hoping and praying for sweet Noah. I have two little boys. One who turned two on Monday. I couldn't get my mind off of Noah at all that day.

Yes, and yes. Most LE are trained a certain way with the way they speak to the public. My own brother was a county deputy for years and when he'd speak sometimes I knew he was using "cop-speak". But they have to do that to protect the integrity of the investigation. (he hasn't been with the department for many years, but I still hear it from time to time, it's that ingrained in him)

 

[Sgt]

You wont. I've followed cases here that were local to me, and it boggles the mind sometimes the things people say. And to that, I WILL say "bless their hearts".

But on the flip side, there are many many many more who will follow a case objectively, discuss the facts only, and/or put out potential scenarios that may explain things that don't make sense at first. Part of the reason I love the folks here at WS and the moderated forums.

I've been a lurker on this forum sporadically and always thought it was much more objective than people on facebook. There are a lot of members who are, but I've also sadly found out that even people with good intentions can be wrong and unintentionally spread bad information/rumors. I know most people don't mean any harm, but I didn't realize how much it sucks to read when it's happening in your neck of the woods. I think it's a good thing that I've seen this, because now in the future I can be more sensitive to tragic stories like this one, especially ones that are in other states. It also made me realize that I personally may have done the same thing and have unintentionally hurt a family or spread misinformation without meaning to. I will definitely be more careful about how I read and ask questions about stories in the future for sure.

 

[TupeloMz]

:goodpost:
And. :welcome4:

Also because I have seen there are a few. :welcome2:

:gathering:

Hi everyone. I too am new here. Initially created an account on WS for another case but this case is fairly local to me and I can't shake it. I've been following since the first thread. First, I want to say I appreciate what you guys do here. I felt like I was going a little nutty reading responses elsewhere.

Anyways, I do not want to break the rules, so please do not shun me if I do! I will do better. Promise

Getting to my question. Is it possible that they have had evidence for days but want to be as tight lipped about it as possible? Is that common? I have read a fairly interesting post by a searcher who as far as I can tell was truly a searcher this past weekend. They have been fairly mum in the press conferences but I almost wonder if they know more. All cases I have ever followed, I don't feel like I have ever seen such a tight lipped group. I can't blame them. So, I'm just curious if it would be crazy if they have more than they are letting on in terms of physical evidence?

I am hoping and praying for sweet Noah. I have two little boys. One who turned two on Monday. I couldn't get my mind off of Noah at all that day.

 

[margarita25]

new to this all, really... In your and everyone's experience, does that say anything? Like would that point to things being suspicious, or would it be neutral in that regard?

Neutral imo. Just part of it, they can't release stuff for a loot of reasons. I'm too tired to explain but will be happy to explain later imo why being tight lipped is important, regardless of whether or not foul play is suspected. Welcome again all new members, and thanks to everyone out there for keeping love and hope alive.

NOAH
:heartbeat:

 

[ChaosandOrder]

Forgive my incessant posting/linking tonight, but I've been trying to wrap my head around the terrain, being someone who's lived in the NE U.S. And Canada, and I know a lot of us have wondered. This link has video and pics of what the terrain in that area is like. It helped me to imagine the climate and conditions more. http://www.jacksonsun.com/story/new...oods-sinkhole-near-noah-search-area/79075288/

Here is a topography map of the area. You can zoom out a bit to get a better view. You can see by reading the elevations on the lines that in a very short distance there can be a drop or rise in elevation of 60 ft. that is quite a roll down a hill if one is to misstep.

http://www.topozone.com/map/?lat=35.46&lon=-88.75#quick-search

Also, I think it should be mentioned that West TN gets a lot of rainfall. The average yearly totals are about 55 inches. The Pacific Northwest gets on average 100 inches where as the NE is somewhere in between. The UK gets about 30 inches. This much water combined with the fact that this land used to be the bottom of a sea with loose sandy soil just creates large unstable swampy areas. It usually stays damp and moist year round.

Hope that helps.

 

[Ontario Mom]

I've been a lurker on this forum sporadically and always thought it was much more objective than people on facebook. There are a lot of members who are, but I've also sadly found out that even people with good intentions can be wrong and unintentionally spread bad information/rumors. I know most people don't mean any harm, but I didn't realize how much it sucks to read when it's happening in your neck of the woods. I think it's a good thing that I've seen this, because now in the future I can be more sensitive to tragic stories like this one, especially ones that are in other states. It also made me realize that I personally may have done the same thing and have unintentionally hurt a family or spread misinformation without meaning to. I will definitely be more careful about how I read and ask questions about stories in the future for sure.

If we're being honest here, I've done the same (unintentionally of course). It's an eye opener. No two ways about it. The one big difference about baby Noah's case and most others, is that his case has generated national/international attention - so a lot more folks are commenting here (and reading) than usual.

 

[TupeloMz]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm fairly certain that I've read multiple sources in the last day or so stating that the dogs have alerted, though sporadically and not significantly. I believe they were alerting in a manner that led LE to believe he was in a sink hole and scent was wafting up as people passed. Not trying to fight you on this, just looking for clarification, as many different things have been said on this matter.

Idk for sure but the only thing I recall LE saying is that the dogs haven't hit on a scent at all. But I could be mistaken.

 

[Ontario Mom]

<modsnip>

The lack of scent being picked up has been explained in depth, on these forums. Essentially, smaller people (such as a 2 year old) leave less of a scent TO be picked up than say, a missing adult. You may want to scroll back and read the professional explanation for that. It's very educational.

As for how adult searchers find the terrain difficult to locate a small child, it's been pointed out that as rational, analytical, practical adults will seek the path of less resistance (briars, branches, etc.), small people may not have had that same experience in navigating a wooded area. In other words, THEIR path of least resistance will likely not be the same one - simply because they're smaller and can get into/thru places adults cannot.

Everyone IS entitle to their own opinion, but the forums here at WS are victim friendly and right now, until or unless LE names someone in this baby's family as a suspect or a person of interest, they are considered victims in this case. I'm not a mod nor do I play one on WS but those are the rules according to TOS and most of us here do our best to abide by those, out of respect to the families/loved ones in cases we discuss.

I hope that helps.

 

[Sgt]

<modsnip>
1. Dogs are not as good at picking up scents as CSI and Law and Order would have you believe. In a best case scenario, the dogs must be trained well, they must be experienced, have a good handler, and then have a clear scent to follow, and then they must find that scent else where and hope it is not being obstructed by other scents. This best case scenario doesn't happen often, especially not in Noah's case. People wear perfume, have laundry soap, hug other people, etc. A shirt or teddy bear may have Noah's scent on it, but it also has other scents on it too. And he was lost in the woods, a place that has a lot of scents making it harder to find his. It also had been raining the day before. Noah and his family have also been in that woods before, so even if the dog picked up his scent, it could have been an older scent that mislead him. There are so many reasons why the dogs could not have picked up his scent, or they did pick it up but they lost it, etc. Dogs have been known to walk right past people and not notice.

2. As others have said, two year olds are fast. Kids can get into places adults can't, especially if they have been to the area before. It being a difficult terrain only furthers the theories that Noah fell down somewhere and got seriously hurt. That has been my fear since day one. The sink holes in those woods are no joke. We don't know how far in the woods he is. I don't think he's far at all. I think the poor kid is near by and people can't find him because he's inside a sink hole or a rotten tree or something and is covered with leaves and mud due to the recent storms. But, he could be far. He wouldn't be the first kid to go much farther than the SAR teams expected. Kids are tougher than some people realize, especially southern kids who play in the woods regularly. Add fear in the mix and you would be surprised how far that can take you. I could definitely see Noah walking, running, and crawling until he was too hurt and/or exhausted to go on anymore, and then to escape the cold, he crawled into something and died later in the night.

 

[CanadianWells]

Idk for sure but the only thing I recall LE saying is that the dogs haven't hit on a scent at all. But I could be mistaken.

I've read that, and I've also read what I mentioned before, which is what's leaving me totally perplexed.

 

[margarita25]

Here is a topography map of the area. You can zoom out a bit to get a better view. You can see by reading the elevations on the lines that in a very short distance there can be a drop or rise in elevation of 60 ft. that is quite a roll down a hill if one is to misstep.

http://www.topozone.com/map/?lat=35.46&lon=-88.75#quick-search

Also, I think it should be mentioned that West TN gets a lot of rainfall. The average yearly totals are about 55 inches. The Pacific Northwest gets on average 100 inches where as the NE is somewhere in between. The UK gets about 30 inches. This much water combined with the fact that this land used to be the bottom of a sea with loose sandy soil just creates large unstable swampy areas. It usually stays damp and moist year round.

Hope that helps.

Welcome ChaosandOrder! This is my kind of post, topographic maps re: ledges, etc. (I was talking about these early on...want to keep this kind of stuff going!) This is definitely a topographic geographic, geologic, meteorlogical, etc etc case imo!!

It seems Noah is bringing some great new members here. I hope you guys stick around and help in future cases! Unfortunately, there will be more babies that need our help, you can count on it...

 

[kytty]

From what I've gleaned from reading the two threads, the area that Noah disappeared from was quite close to the grandmother's home. The grandmother surely knew the area well; well enough that she felt perfectly safe supervising a 4 yr old and 2 year old in the area. Wouldn't the grandmother also be aware of the woods near her home; for example, if there were numerous sinkholes or overturned trees etc as well as if animals such as coyotes posed a serious threat?

 

[Ontario Mom]

Calling it a night and praying for baby Noah's family. HUGE thanks for all who updated all day while I was working and couldn't follow. And all locals & professionals who are sharing insight. Y'all rock, big time.

 

[margarita25]

I've been a lurker on this forum sporadically and always thought it was much more objective than people on facebook. There are a lot of members who are, but I've also sadly found out that even people with good intentions can be wrong and unintentionally spread bad information/rumors. I know most people don't mean any harm, but I didn't realize how much it sucks to read when it's happening in your neck of the woods. I think it's a good thing that I've seen this, because now in the future I can be more sensitive to tragic stories like this one, especially ones that are in other states. It also made me realize that I personally may have done the same thing and have unintentionally hurt a family or spread misinformation without meaning to. I will definitely be more careful about how I read and ask questions about stories in the future for sure.

What's so great about this place is that WS has a strict policy and enforcement on "rumors", etc. And the mods are very consistent enforcing this. This is also a very "victim friendly" site.

 

[Lato]

Ontario Mom......thank you so much for this....

""but the forums here at WS are victim friendly and right now, until or unless LE names someone in this baby's family as a suspect or a person of interest, they are considered victims in this case""

Lato

 

[gypsysoul]

The theory of Noah being underground and his scent wafting up as searchers walked near the area was posted by a family-appointed spokesperson. I have the screenshot but it is from FB. Is it ok to post it since the family has posted his name as a family spokesperson??

 

[TupeloMz]

I've read that, and I've also read what I mentioned before, which is what's leaving me totally perplexed.

I think I may have read that also (now that I think about it) but iirc it was a volunteer searcher writing about his search experience.
Hth

 

[margarita25]

The theory of Noah being underground and his scent wafting up as searchers walked near the area was posted by a family-appointed spokesperson. I have the screenshot but it is from FB. Is it ok to post it since the family has posted his name as a family spokesperson??

I'll flag this post for a mod!

 

[Sgt]

Thanks everyone for the nice posts. It's midnight here and I'm passing out at my keyboard, so I'm gonna hit the hay. Night!

 

[CanadianWells]

I read the same thing from a family friend who's been out searching for Noah but I don't think law enforcement has provided details

Interesting. Well I definitely read it in multiple sources, which would have been news (not that that makes it verifiable), but I prefer this option, so I'm taking it with me to bed. Thanks for the insight!