GUILTY TN - Rev. Matthew Winkler, 31, shot to death, Selmer, 23 March 2006

  • #101
  • #102
LurkingSleuth said:
True but one could also speculate that she was having an affair, decided she would never be able to get the kids in a divorce so she killed him to get him out of the way or go even further and say killed him and then she was on her way to roll her car into a lake with the kids in it because kids were not in her future plans either.

Speculation should go either way, it just unnerves me the way women are always given the benefit of the doubt and men are always considered the bad guy. (I am a woman by the way)
Yes, and if you look far enough back in the thread at post # 11 & # 27 you will see that I thinking of exactly that possibility at one point (except I did not speculate on affair but did mention she may have been concerned he would get the kids if it came to court and I did post about worrying about her heading for water for drowning purposes.)

In my recent response to your post I was trying to say that I can see how people get to some of the generalized speculations that they do but I was not saying you could not also look at other possibilites (as I infact did.)
 
  • #103
BillyGoatGruff said:
A friend of mine wrote that book. The tv movie was nominated for an Emmy, I think--it had Barbara Hershey & Brian Denehhy (sp?) in it. The book is an excellent example of adultry and sex in the fundamentalist suburbs of Ft. Worth.
No way! Your friend wrote that book? I also saw the movie. They both moved me to tears. It's shocking what your feelings and emotions can sometimes lead you to do. None of those people invovled seemed to be bad people. Just made "bad" judgement calls and it led to terrible, terrible things.
Wow ... I wonder how your friend felt learning all of that?

I do thin kthe movie was called Murder in a Small Town or a Killing in a Small Town. Something like that. Tell your friend, good writing. Sad, sad story, but good writing.
 
  • #104
Sounds like the mother will be charged with pre-meditated murder this weekend. The father was shot in the back. Just got to wonder what really went on with that family. Apparently, all was not perfect as the parishners thought.
 
  • #105
She had substituted in the elementary school the day before the murders. I heard this afternoon that she had enrolled in college and was completing her work toward a degree so she could be a teacher instead of a substitute. This would be a lot of pressure on her with taking care of three children. But she was apparently handling it until this happened, at least as far as we know. I feel so sorry for those poor kids having to live with their mom killing their dad. If only people would think about the consequences of their actions.
 
  • #106
The deafening silence of deniel. That is what comes to mind, however I need to understand more.
 
  • #107
Lacy Wood said:
The news I heard said that Matthew Winkler was "pastor of the Church of Christ in Selmer, TN."

When I had a teenage job at a radio station in Georgia decades ago, I did the Sunday morning gig, and dealt with what I considered peculiarities of the Church of Christ preacher...all music had to be a cappella and you called him "preacher", NEVER pastor! I once accidentally did an exit voiceover sayng "You have just heard preacher_______ _______ "pastor" of the ________Church of Christ", and he darn near wrecked the place slamming his chair against the wall, slamming doors of the studio, and peeling out of the parking lot. (He later forgave me for the transgression.)

We had other ministers who did programs and the C of C guy was fond of informing listeners those preachers were all going to hell and their followers with them. It was his way or burn in hell. The women who came with him seemed suppressed to me. They apparently enforced the letter of the scriptures as to women, and, as you may know, that puts women in a very lowly position. I just wonder if the outwardly perfect Winkler family had a darker underside. (That was just my experience and I don't know if other C of C churches are similar.)





-------->>>Yes I have 'had' a close encounter with C of C. I was an OUTSIDER, having been catholic for decades. Most of the congregations have gone to bible colleges and are so close knit that outsiders practically have to use pry bars to get most of them to even speak to you. Six years and color me gone. No musical instruments, no pianos, no organs. No religious statuary. They call their church 'the building'.

I would suspect that the man either had 🤬🤬🤬🤬 addiction or a woman in the wings. Woman had to be hanging on him like flies on a cowpie. Will we know, when will we know, hard to tell. IF IF there was another woman, most likely pd would investigate and the entire congregation will be shocked. I am just doing a sleuthy guess.

SO IF PD announces another woman or affair, the whole church will start their whispering campaign and everyone in the church will know by the time the sun sets.

There is still one GOD and HE belongs to everyone, not just a bible student.

I do not attend that church anymore. True Christians do not shut out others. True Christians truly give of themselves and include everyone.

Family tradition keeps it going, so most of the congregation does not have CORRECT information about the rest of the world. They are raised in that faith, and it is the ONLY one that counts, so say they.

Many are good and kind people to be fair.

My father who died when I was 2 years old went to this church. I do not remember my father so I did have a curiosity about their beliefs. When you look the church up on Google, you find that they are devoted to the elderly. But I did find that the youth and younger folks do not even take time to say hello to the elderly. Very clique ish sp?


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  • #108
and I posted it BEFORE I viewed any photos of the family-when I kept hearing the description "super-charismatic"-I just had a creepy feeling that something was not right with this family. The news reports have stated that police have a motive, and it is NOT infidelity. My own humble opinion is that he may have been sexually abusing his older daughters-and when a THIRD daughter was born-Mom simply could not stand it anymore and snapped.

I had heard various things over the years about this particular church and it's rigid views towards women-if not sexual abuse maybe he was physically and emotionally abusing his family.

I'm sure when the Mom enters her plea in court we may get more info-but I feel most for the children, who now may lose both parents-and which set of grandparents are supposed to take custody? I hope Child Services checks them out REAAL well before turning the kids over!
 
  • #109
I understand the shot in the back is fear theory, but it could also be rage. "Don't you turn your back on me!!!" kind of stuff. She could have been a real witch, who would know?
 
  • #110
Pastor/Rev. Winkler was a 3rd generation pastor, too, which may end up being wonderful and may not.
 
  • #111
Garnan said:
I understand the shot in the back is fear theory, but it could also be rage. "Don't you turn your back on me!!!" kind of stuff. She could have been a real witch, who would know?

I heard it described today as an indication of rage...but maybe she wasn't a real witch, maybe she had a reason to feel rage at this man. I'm sure it will all come out. I feel so bad for those little girls. :*(
 
  • #112
I feel bad for the little girls too, however I am NOT yet willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. She killed those babies father. Supposedly a good man. She has been charged with first degree murder. It would be nice if she had a really good reason for doing it, it would be nice if she killed him because he was a really bad man, but..... I don't see that. I see Daddy is dead, and Mommy did it. Kids are orphans. Mom is to blame for that. Can't have any sympathy for her YET.
 
  • #113
Garnan said:
I feel bad for the little girls too, however I am NOT yet willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. She killed those babies father. Supposedly a good man. She has been charged with first degree murder. It would be nice if she had a really good reason for doing it, it would be nice if she killed him because he was a really bad man, but..... I don't see that. I see Daddy is dead, and Mommy did it. Kids are orphans. Mom is to blame for that. Can't have any sympathy for her YET.


I understand your feelings...I'm really torn in both directions. We shall see.
 
  • #114
LE denied an adultery motive, but said "no comment" to inquiries regarding abuse. Their silence answers the question for me. I suspect abuse is what she is alleging. I don't know if it is abuse of her or the children. I don't know what form the abuse took, i.e. physical, sexual, or emotional. But I think her stated motive is she killed him because he was abusive to her or the children in some form. I also don't know if she'll be able to substantiate the abuse. There have been no reported domestic calls to LE. Did she confide in a friend? Does anyone in the congregation or at the school where she substituted recall bruises? Did she keep a diary? So many questions yet to be answered.....
 
  • #115
There was a picture on MSNBC today that seemed to show bruises on her hands and forearms. That may help her case but I doubt anything will get her off for killing her husband. Her rage must have been building for a long time. In her arrest photo, she looks totally dead... drained of anything meaningful.
 
  • #116
southerngirl said:
LE denied an adultery motive, but said "no comment" to inquiries regarding abuse. Their silence answers the question for me. I suspect abuse is what she is alleging. .
Say she is alleging abuse. Since LE is charging her with 1st degree murder, does that mean they are discarding her motives? Or, are they charging her 1st degree out of a formality, thus they may change it later?
 
  • #117
Curious J said:
Say she is alleging abuse. Since LE is charging her with 1st degree murder, does that mean they are discarding her motives? Or, are they charging her 1st degree out of a formality, thus they may change it later?
I think first degree murder means premeditation. She formed intent to kill before she committed the act, as I understand it. The abuse she may be alleging would be a mitigating circumstance during sentencing. Which means it would in no way exonorate her but may lighten the sentence.
 
  • #118
I was thinking about her post-murder trek to Orange Beach. I think she knew she was going to be caught up to and arrested for this eventually & very soon, and was trying to have some time with her girls, one last little "vacation", before she was arrested. I don't think she was really running from LE...I think she knew her time with her children was about to be over. She left in the family van...she had to have known when Matthew didn't show up for the Wed. night service someone would go looking for him and would find him...and she knew they would be looking for her and the girls and would be looking for her van. She didn't really try to hide...she just wanted whatever time of freedom she had left with her children, in a beautiful place.
 
  • #119
I agree. She had to know she would be caught, and she surrendered w/o a problem.
 
  • #120
We have so many forums going at this time and Chico has been doing some house cleaning and since Mary's trial is over and she has been sentenced Chico archived it so you can continue to talk about the case here.
 

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