Found Safe TN - SLP, 14, Madisonville, Monroe County, 13 Jan 2019 #5 *ARRESTS*

[Deleted member 158085]

The same. I got the impression she was angry at SP for causing her distress, if you will.

Angry because their family situation would become public. Even if ALL she knew was that her monster husband had killed, skinned, and left on display the family dog, she KNEW something was very wrong at home and that it would likely become public knowledge at that point.

 

[ilovechili]

He wasn't just talking to her about the games. He knew she was underage and talked indepth with her about her personal life. A 31 year old man with a 14 year old kid. It's inappropriate.

I don't believe he's a hero. He seems to be emotionally manipulating a child to get a video of her being harmed. Yes, after her pressured her over and over to get a video and she kept saying she couldn't do it, he finally discussed some other some
options. But it was far from "constantly". And tellingly, he mentioned the police only one time in all that time.

How is it remotely reasonable that a 31 year old adult continually encourages a minor child to be raped on video and send it to him, mentions "running away to a friend's" a few times only AFTER she brought it up first, but only once mentions going to the police for help and never mentions talking to a trusted adult? How is it remotely reasonable that this man doesn't immediately call the police himself, nor calls them at all, ever?

And while he pressures her to get a video, assuring her that that's the way she can be rescued, "foolproof leverage" he's a bit dismissive when he replies to her statement that she will run away, "Run to a friends house and [/i]hope for the best":

This is the defense's best evidence:

12-27-18 Pressing hard and saying he won't help her without video evidence. No mention at all of any other way to get help. Convinced her she will be returned to her abuser without video evidence:

December 27, 2018
Bryan: I didn’t hang up the call got dropped
 And I know you don’t want to do it but I don’t exactly want to see your dad rape you either

Bryan: But we need clear video evidence
KV: Bryan do u understand how hard that would be though
Bryan: yes
 But understand that I can get in a hell of a lot of trouble for harboring you Unless you can prove what he did they will just release you back to him if we get caught
KV: I understand bryan I guess
 As far as needing the evidence goes and u getting in trouble
Bryan: ok
KV: I just can’t promise I’ll get the evidence...
Bryan: Then I can’t promise I can get you away from that 
I hate to say it but I can’t risk getting trouble for you. If you can get that video I can get you out of there but without it you will just wind up back with your dad and I’ll be in trouble
KV: ...I’lltrytogetit

1-4-19 Seems upset she didn't get video evidence. After she says she couldn't do it he says, "There has to be some [effing] way." Goes on to pressure her about getting video. "He's going to rape you anyhow anyhow." Pushes super hard to get video.

Bryan: Just out of curiosity why can’t you just stay in your room and wait for him to get you?
He’s going to rape you anyway, might as well have the phone recording

KV: Bryan I can’t stand it I’ll have a ******* mental breakdown... idfk how

Bryan: ok

KV: There has to be a way
I can’t just stay here bryan I’m begging u plz

Bryan: There is. Be in your room when he comes home and have the phone recording. That way when he comes for you it’s already recording and you don’t have to worry about anything

Bryan: And I can’t help you if we don’t have foolproof leverage against your dad He’s been molesting you for 12 years, KV. If that’ not enough of a reason to get the video then idk what else to tell you

KV: Bryan ur such a ******* ******* if u don’t help me somehow I might as well kill my ******* self like I’ve been planning to do
I can’t get the video I just can’t

Bryan: So I’m an ******* for not risking going to prison for someone I haven’t even met?

KV: IDFK ANYMORE! But u can’t just leave me here!
If u don’t help me I’ll either kill myself or just run away to a friends house cause I can’t deal with this **** but I can’t get the video either
 Idfk what to do anymore
Bryan: “And I know you don’t want to do it but I don’t exactly want to see your dad rape you either”
KV: If u don’t help me I’ll either kill myself or just run away to a friends house cause I can’t deal with this **** but I can’t get the video either
Idfk what to do
Bryan: Good. Run away to a friends house

KV: Damn u bryan


Bryan: At least they can’t be charged with kidnaping if you go to them

KV: I’ll just kill myself

Bryan: Just do not kill yourself
 KV if you know someone else you can run away to, do that instead
 Show them the recording you got earlier. That at least will give them reason to hide you

KV: Bryan plz don’t leave me like this...
My friends will eventually rat me out to the cops

Bryan: And I think some of the laws are messed up too but my opinion isn’t going to matter if they come looking for you and we get caught
Run to a friends house and hope for the best

KV: That’s all the ******* advice u have for me

Bryan: That’s all I can offer
 If I knew something else I would tell you

KV: I’m just gonna kill myself Bryan: so don’t let him take you anywhere
 KV if you’re just going to kill yourself you might as well try running away to a friends house
 you have nothing to lose
Bryan: Then I guess your only option is to run away and show the people you run to the recording and tell them he’s sexually abusing you
KV: So what’s happens between us now bryan
Bryan: Then go to a hospital and get a rape kit
KV hell you could just go to the police after he rapes you and get a rape kit done on you
It’s only a few miles to town
Bryan: Then they will have DNA evidence that he raped you and since you’re a minor it won’t matter if he forced himself on you or not

Bryan: Between the rape charged and having all those guns as a s convicted felon he will be put away for a long f ing time

He mentions having her go to the police - Once.
Going to the hospital for a rape kit - Once.
Running away to a friend's - four times. And ONLY after she suggests it first.
Getting video evidence - six times. "I don't exactly want to see your dad rape you either."

His language is suggestive to me. He seems manipulative and intent on a video.

I am a bit baffled by the insistence that a very adult man who engaged in much more than gaming convos, online, with a minor child, and NEVER calls the police for help, but repeatedly insists the only way he can help is if she records herself getting raped and send it to him, is "a good Samaritan."

I don't see that.

He had so many legitimate ways to help this baby that didn't involve encouraging her to get raped on camera, send it to him and then go pick her up and transport her across state lines to his home.

Child abuse hotline.
911.
"Tell a trusted adult."
Pick her up but take her straight to the police.
Send the video himself to the police anonymously, without picking her up.

Instead, he flatly lies to her and manipulates her to believe she will be returned to him "hope for the best" unless she gets video: "Unless you can prove what he did they will just release you back to him"

"If you can get that video I can get you out of there but without it you will just wind up back with your dad".

That's b.s.

I feel it's in error to scold those of us who are in agreement with the fed's charges, for being the reason there aren't more people who step up to help others.

He could've helped her in so many legitimate ways that didn't involve sending him child porn and then transporting her across state lines where he hid her and lied to the police about her whereabouts.

Oh and anyone who thinks these two weren't avidly reading the news about this case and somehow missed that the dad was arrested for rape, thus he lied about her being there when the cops came to call, should probably think twice.

My two cents.

I cannot entirely disagree with either view. I would like to see the entire history of their talks whether on the phone, by messenger, through games, etc. I am glad she is safe.

The only thing I do disagree with here slightly is that she would not have been sent back to the monster and been in worse danger. It has happened sadly before in cases. If for instance, she has been in any trouble or they claim she was trouble, had been running away, lying, etc., sometimes local LE and even well intended protective agencies can send them back. I truly believe she did not think she could count on him or he and her mother not convincing LE she was the problem and charming them so to speak. It is also very likely if arrested he would bond out and she would not be safe or feel safe. I don't think FBI would be involved if she had just reported it to someone locally. I believe she for some reason wanted this to have more attention and proof and the FBI involved so that she KNEW he was put away. Maybe it even stems just from telling her mother and not being believed if that is true. Or a teacher. Or an aunt. Etc.

While none of this gives him any excuse, I can believe if we saw all messages, that there may be something to show she was intent on getting far away, seeing him put away and proving it, etc. And one other thing that cannot be argued is that it did work, he was arrested before she came out of hiding.

WI man seems to be another odd mix that so far defies comprehension and imho there have been a few of those lately... I hope we get to see further facts. Her testimony regarding him will tell much imo if we hear it or of it. He still is the adult and it in no way excuses anything but it will show much with regard to his treatment, their conversations, etc.

all jmo.

 

[kkdj]

Angry because their family situation would become public. Even if ALL she knew was that her monster husband had killed, skinned, and left on display the family dog, she KNEW something was very wrong at home and that it would likely become public knowledge at that point.

I can't imagine the other children weren't living in fear and other abuses. I'm so glad they are all away from that monster!

 

[oviedo]

If this has been happening since she was 2 years old, as mentioned in the communication between SP and BR, then I would imagine she has told her mother in many different ways thru the years. Young children will act out and be inappropriate about sexual matters way before they should know these things. Plus we have SP actually telling her mother RP was SA her and her mother didn't believe her. My personal opinion is that her mother must have known all along or be living under a rock. moo

Not that I want to go back to the complaint or defense memorandum and re-experience those messages between BR and his child victim, but in those messages, did she say in her own words to BR she told her mother about RP? I honestly cannot remember - what I recall is that he said she told him she told her mother - I will look later myself but this too has bothered me.
If she did tell her mother (and we would know this because of her written words to BR if that is what happened) and her mother did nothing - why isn't she arrested yet? I know we have to tread cautiously here. JMO
ETA: clarity about her written words

 

[Betty P]

Different cases in different jurisdictions (state and federal) operating at different stages. We could also see a gag order in the federal case.

But a gag order should not be confused with stealing a case. The gag order just means that the attorneys cannot discuss it before trial. The evidence still remains fair game for public perusal once it begins to be released in criminal complaints, at preliminary hearings, and during trial.

Thanks for this info, gitana1. Slightly OT, but it answers a question some of us had about the Wagner family hearings for the Rhoden family massacre. Pre-trial hearings are ongoing, but little info is being released about evidence in these cases.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The legal community is interested in following this case because of a fear of the possibility of a legal precedent being won using gray areas of the law. Defense lawyers would not, of course, see the "fear" in this, but prosecutors most certainly do.

I have believed from the moment I learned of the powerful law firm who are representing B.D.R. that this was their intent. Their subsequent court filings confirmed this.

The information and facts finally presenting themselves have lessened the possibility to zero but still there is always a great concern in cases such as these.

We have faith that there will not be a legal precedent concerning the issues in this case.

Can you imagine how detrimental that would be to future victims - perpetators receiving lesser sentences because of new case law in this area? Horrific to even consider.

This is why there is so much interest in this case, especially from a legal perspective!

I think the gray areas that they thought before, are now black and white?

 

[Deleted member 158085]

Does anyone know what the charge would be for a parent who knew about but did not commit the rape, and did not report it?

 

[kkdj]

Does anyone know what the charge would be for a parent who knew about but did not commit the rape, and did not report it?

At the very least....failure to protect and neglect.

 

[Deleted member 158085]

I think the gray areas that they thought before, are now black and white?

Read her third paragraph that is bolded. I think you’ll see her answer there.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Read her third paragraph that is bolded. I think you’ll see her answer there.

??

 

[Jim_M]

Not that I want to go back to the complaint or defense memorandum and re-experience those messages between BR and his child victim, but in those messages, did she say in her own words to BR she told her mother about RP? I honestly cannot remember - what I recall is that he said she told him she told her mother - I will look later myself but this too has bothered me.
If she did tell her mother (and we know this because of her written words to BR) and her mother did nothing - why isn't she arrested yet? I know we have to tread cautiously here. JMO

From CC:

SNIPS

"Bryan Rogers was arrested and again interviewed by law enforcement
agents. Rogers stated that he communicated with KV #1 on Roblox, Face book, and an
encrypted messenger application. KV #1 disclosed to him that she was being molested.
She told Rogers she had never told anyone else but her mother, who didn't believe her."

SNIPS

It was BR in his interview.

ETA: I stayed away from the bottom half of that document

 

[Steelslady]

Well, I wouldn't call it underage sex. It was rape. And I think he was quite excited to see her being raped. And knowing she was a victim made him see her as easy prey, IMO. But indeed having the the video probably did make him feel a sense of power and control over her.

Creepy.

Then why would he drive her all the way to St. Louis to mail the package to the FBI? I am totally confused here. He is an educated man. Men his age know full well that they can be tracked through their ISP's, especially those gaming rooms. He also told her many times to go to a friend's house, to go to LE, to go to the hospital and get a rape kit.

That's why I thought that maybe he wanted the proof because if he came to help her get out of that house, he wanted physical evidence that this occurred. He drove far away to help this girl, and he did emphasize several times he would get into trouble trying to help her without evidence. From what I have read, LE said that they only chatted for a couple of weeks before she went missing. He doesn't appear to have a criminal past, and I was waiting to find something online, where possibly other victims of his came forward, even anonymously, but so far, I haven't seen anything. I haven't seen any blight on his character anywhere. Of course, that doesn't mean a blessed thing if he, too abused her.

It just seems like he did an awful lot of work to help her, just to abuse her. Why let her write a letter to the FBI and help her deliver that and the memory stick (or whatever you call it) of the video, knowing full well they will track her and you down to your home?

It just seems that he is intelligent enough to know that not only would he be tracked down as well as SP, but that also, if he had sex with her, it would show up on a rape kit. I mean, this guy was telling her to go to the hospital and get a rape kit, and he had to know that once the FBI took her away, they would do a rape kit.

I just don't get it. I wish I could understand his mind set.

 

[kkdj]

If my child came to me and said anyone was SA them, including their other parent, I would immediately get my childaway from that other person, report it and have it investigated, along with counseling for my child.
There have been cases where children make this up but I would take no chances. I would protect my child first and foremost. But hey....that's just me.

 

[Bugurl747]

The legal community is interested in following this case because of a fear of the possibility of a legal precedent being won using gray areas of the law. Defense lawyers would not, of course, see the "fear" in this, but prosecutors most certainly do.

I have believed from the moment I learned of the powerful law firm who are representing B.D.R. that this was their intent. Their subsequent court filings confirmed this.

The information and facts finally presenting themselves have lessened the possibility to zero but still there is always a great concern in cases such as these.

We have faith that there will not be a legal precedent concerning the issues in this case.

Can you imagine how detrimental that would be to future victims - perpetators receiving lesser sentences because of new case law in this area? Horrific to even consider.

This is why there is so much interest in this case, especially from a legal perspective!

Honestly, I keep waiting for his high powered legal team to drop his arse after the new findings..... and likely more to come. MOO

 

[oviedo]

If this goes to trial with RP and goes to trial with BR is it absolutely necessary for SP to take the stand or can the evidence speak for itself?

I think BR's counsel may call her if they are going to continue with the defense outlined in their memorandum IMO

 

[kkdj]

I think BR's counsel may call her if they are going to continue with the defense outlined in their memorandum IMO

The defense will need to tread lightly with her. A jury will be listening and taking notes and feeling very sorry for her. IMO it's so easy to see she was re-victimized by a predator.

 

[oviedo]

From CC:

SNIPS

"Bryan Rogers was arrested and again interviewed by law enforcement
agents. Rogers stated that he communicated with KV #1 on Roblox, Face book, and an
encrypted messenger application. KV #1 disclosed to him that she was being molested.
She told Rogers she had never told anyone else but her mother, who didn't believe her."

SNIPS

It was BR in his interview.

Thank you for finding this I thought it was on his say-so but I wanted to see if she actually wrote it to him in the many messages exchanged?

 

[kkdj]

What would RP have to gain by going to trial?
I think he'll plea out.

 

[Kadoober]

SLP said she told her mother. What do we make of that?

I've been trying to sort my thoughts about this for a few days now.

Now that we've heard that RP killed and skinned her dog, threatened her life, and was trying to impregnate her (?!?!??!?!), I think it's unlikely that this was even a secret that she needed to confide to her mom.

I mean - what if she DID get pregnant? How do you get around that? It gives me the impression that RP was pretty brazen about what he was doing. The whole family, barring RP, was probably living with a lot of fear, a lot of the time. MOO.

 

[gitana1]

Dear JenniferTx,

We didn't have this information earlier so how could we judge one way or another? We could guess or speculate but that's about it.

It's not your judgment at all! Your judgment is good! The information was so scarce at the beginning but now it's a different story. We did not have any of this information before but now we do.

I respectfully disagree that the information was scarce. For me there was a lot of information early on that revealed who this man was. The defense memo gave even more that really solidified it.

I think there was a ton of info to indicate he was a predator and had bad intentions.

1. His actions as a 31 year old male in befriending a 14 year old child online. Just that, period, was a major problem for me. And discussing things outside gaming and gaining her trust so quickly? Massive red flag.

2. His exceedingly cold, manipulative and demanding conversations with her in which he coerced her to produce a recording of herself being raped and send it to him...as the ONLY certain means of rescuing her and ensuring she would not be returned to her rapist. These conversations were exceedingly inappropriate, intentionally misleading and predatory and indicated a desperation to get a recording of a child being raped.
He exhibited such a callous disregard for the suffering of the begging, pleading child, in his efforts to get access to child porn, that it broke my heart into pieces.

3. His failure to thoroughly explore with her multiple other options for being rescued and his downplaying of options she suggested, twice running away- "hope for the best". The defense would've outlined this as they presented their best evidence in their memorandum.

4. The risk factor of her being and revealing online that she was a child sex abuse victim and her extreme, suicidal desperation. That made her a target for online and other predators. They eat that up. It's like a bullseye.

5. HE NEVER CALLED 911. A 31 year old man faced with a suicidal, severely sexually abused minor child. Absolute and total, inexcusable b.s. Few well intentioned and cognitively typical adults would fail to do that IMO.

6. He never told her to instead email the recording directly to LE/FBI.

7. He claimed that he could not safely rescue her (without facing legal problems), without the video, indicating it would be evidence that would be strong enough to protect him. But inexplicably, once he got that strong evidence, he didn't immediately turn it over to LE. If it was good enough for him to feel safe in "rescuing" her it was good enough to take directly to LE without delay.

8. He drove hundreds of miles to pick up a minor child and transport her out of state. What well-intentioned 31 year old, intellectually typical adult male does this?

9. When he got her, he didn't immediately take her to the police or sheriff. He drove her hundreds of miles, away.

10. Her only means of communication were smashed and disposed of.

11. He hid her in his home.

12. He lied to LE about her whereabouts when they questioned him.

13. They waited almost two weeks to send evidence to the FBI. Any concerned, non-predatory and cognitively typical adult would've sent that evidence immediately. Not two weeks later. Having a job is no excuse.

14. He graduated from college and had a job and showed no evidence of cognitive/neurological impairment or intellectual disability or serious mental illness in his communications with this vulnerable, minor child. He was sharp, canny and calculating in his communications, IMO.

This is a lot of information for us to consider in forming opinions and judging character, I feel. A lot.

I think the red flags were massive and waving fast and directly in our faces.

But ultimately and upon reflection I don't think people had poor judgment. I think it's simply that our brains just couldn't accept any more victimization of this child! And when many others are having a similar opinion, combined with not being able to cope with more horror, it's easy to disregard some facts and basics about human behavior.

I had moments of doubts about his intentions as well. It's too damn much to comprehend! It's almost Kafkaesque.