To all the people that cant fathom a 10 year old could not commit murder.

[ispywithmylittleeye]

I don't understand the title of this thread. Who are all of these supposed people who can't fathom a 10 yr. old committing murder? This folder could be renamed Burke Did It. No one seems to have a problem believing a little boy committing this murder. Who people refuse to believe could do this are the parents.

There are plenty of folks who discount BR due to his age.
What forums do you read? Most on here believe BR capable, on other forums many do not.

 

[Swirlz]

What forums do you read?

Other than this one, Reddit and Facebook. It's all pretty much a BDI echo chamber.

 

[Swirlz]

OK? What does that have to do with a 10 year old committing murder? Am I missing a point?

The title of the thread is to all the people who can't fathom a 10 year old child could not commit murder.

Who are the people here who don't believe a 10 yr. old could commit murder? I've never seen even one. It's the parents people refuse to believe could do this even tho the evidence points directly at them. I mean, Patsy Ramsey's fibers are tied into the actual ligature knot. What more do we need?

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

Yes, kids kill kids, but the extent that the parents (or just Patsy) went to cover up the initial injuries (making sure JBR was dead, multiple drafts for the ransom note, etc, etc) speaks to desperate self preservation.

If Burke had injured JBR, even intentionally, there would have been a call to 911. He was a kid and wouldn't have been in real jeopardy. Patsy, on the other hand........

But it has not been proven who did what acts to JBR.
You can only think accident in your mind as I did. It's not until you fathom the possibility that he may have been responsible for all the violation done to her, that the scenario is much broader and horrific and that the parents felt the need to cover it up.
These are theories. It's just a matter of which one you think best fits.

 

[x_files]

That is my thought also. Two things can both be true. Another thought, if the parents were aware of inappropriate play between the children, JBR ends up dead and is shown to be abused, JR knows he will be the obvious choice for committing the abuse. The parents would have to tell the world BR was abusing JBR and they were negligent in protecting her.
Not a good look for image conscious people.

true.
It's hard to fathom a parent would cover for an abusive spouse and/or son but it does happen.

 

[leighaking98]

What if both are true?
Someone was molesting JBR throughout her life...what if the father was, and Burke witnessed it and copied him? Burke over the years started resenting his little sister and became engaged with jealousy that the parents doted on her, that night the pineapple fight triggered his rage, and he hit her.
It is possible generational abuse and dysfunction created this situation and JBR was it's victim?

I think that is plausible and the family was dysfunctional if something like this happened in their home. We still don't have answers because the crime scene was compromised. I also think the evidence was covered up in some way or tampered with specifically JBR's body post-mortem. We don't have an in-depth review of the Ramsey family to determine if signs of abuse were present before the murder.

 

[SweetDreamsAreMadeOfCheez]

I don't understand the title of this thread. Who are all of these supposed people who can't fathom a 10 yr. old committing murder? This folder could be renamed Burke Did It. No one seems to have a problem believing a little boy committing this murder. Who people refuse to believe could do this are the parents.

In many of the JBR threads there are a number of people who don't believe BR or any kid could kill let alone on purpose.

 

[ispywithmylittleeye]

https://fox8.com/news/9-and-10-year-old-charged-with-attempted-murder-rape-in-cleveland/

 

[tara83]

I really think Burke should be left alone as he should be considered a victim. The rules here seem to not be enforced here is this case though.

 

[Lebowski]

i keep flirting with the idea that burke was involved, possibly responsible for the head injury, but not anything else. the reason is, otherwise, if it was one of the parents, i have a hard time imagining them never pointing fingers at each other in all the years after. IIUC, they have always backed each other up 100%.

like, why on earth would you stand by the spouse who killed your child? i guess it's not unknown for women to stand by men who abuse and murder their children, so it could sorta fit JDI. but i think the actual evidence points more to PDI, and AFAIK the phenomenon does not happen with the genders reversed. i guess it's possible the parent who did it managed to fool the other parent all along, possibly aided by denial. but i find that very hard to believe. another theoretical possibility is the other spouse knew and kept their mouth shut and played the role to the hilt forever, out of sheer pride and obsession with appearances. but again, i find that incredible.

on the other hand, i can picture them conspiring together to save the family they had left. that's easy. so my mind keeps coming back to it.

BUT... like every theory of this case, it runs into problems. if you're a parent who's covering up the fact that one of your children killed the other, do you immediately let him hang out at a friend's house so he can run his 9yo mouth? and do you let him be interviewed by the police without you present? do your high-priced lawyers let you let him? all highly unlikely.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

i keep flirting with the idea that burke was involved, possibly responsible for the head injury, but not anything else. the reason is, otherwise, if it was one of the parents, i have a hard time imagining them never pointing fingers at each other in all the years after. IIUC, they have always backed each other up 100%.

like, why on earth would you stand by the spouse who killed your child? i guess it's not unknown for women to stand by men who abuse and murder their children, so it could sorta fit JDI. but i think the actual evidence points more to PDI, and AFAIK the phenomenon does not happen with the genders reversed. i guess it's possible the parent who did it managed to fool the other parent all along, possibly aided by denial. but i find that very hard to believe. another theoretical possibility is the other spouse knew and kept their mouth shut and played the role to the hilt forever, out of sheer pride and obsession with appearances. but again, i find that incredible.

on the other hand, i can picture them conspiring together to save the family they had left. that's easy. so my mind keeps coming back to it.

BUT... like every theory of this case, it runs into problems. if you're a parent who's covering up the fact that one of your children killed the other, do you immediately let him hang out at a friend's house so he can run his 9yo mouth? and do you let him be interviewed by the police without you present? do your high-priced lawyers let you let him? all highly unlikely.

Lebowski,
You state that it is highly unlikely for the following:
Do you immediately let him hang out at a fiend’s house so he can run his 9yr mouth?
Why yes, BR did exactly that. A few days later SS overheard BR and DS talking about the way JB was strangled. *How did he know she was strangled when the autopsy result’s hadn’t been released yet?

And you asked:
Do you let him be interviewed y the police without you present?
Why yes, this also happed at the Whites house the morning of the 26th.

Do you high powered lawyers let him let him.
Why yes again,
He was videotaped live by a psychiatrist early the 1997.

If BR didn’t do it why did his dad yell at him “We aren’t talking to you” overheard on 911 call? Why did BR stay in his room, pretending to be asleep. Scared he was. Scared of what?

BR knew to much about the actual crime. He was way too privy!
My theory, all 3 family members were involved.

 

[Swirlz]

The autopsy was completed on Dec. 27. The conversation between Doug and Burke was reported to have been overheard by Doug's mother, Susan, on Dec. 28, the next day.

In a non-BDI scenario involving fatal abuse by a parent, BR would stay in his room and pretend to be asleep because he has either been exposed to or has experienced abuse and knows to stay away. And yes, he'd be scared.

There's no evidence to suggest Burke was involved.

 

[Lebowski]

for me the appeal of BDI is it gives you a simple, natural explanation for why the parents never accused each other or split up afterward. the problems are he couldn't have done half of it, and there's no direct evidence he did any of it, whereas a lot of evidence points to one or both of his parents.

i think i'm settling on PDI. it seems like the least problematic theory. i just keep coming back to the question of why john never accused or divorced patsy. my guess is some combination of:
1) being honestly fooled by patsy, at least initially,
2) denial
3) extreme pride / image-consciousness,
4) not wanting burke to know the truth,
5) not wanting to have what was left of his family split up, and
6) worrying that he himself would go down with patsy if she got charged.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

The autopsy was completed on Dec. 27. The conversation between Doug and Burke was reported to have been overheard by Doug's mother, Susan, on Dec. 28, the next day.

In a non-BDI scenario involving fatal abuse by a parent, BR would stay in his room and pretend to be asleep because he has either been exposed to or has experienced abuse and knows to stay away. And yes, he'd be scared.

There's no evidence to suggest Burke was involved.

Swirlz,
The autopsy on JonBenét was performed on Friday, December 27, 1996. It was released in its entirety on August 14, 1997.

Perhaps, BR was instructed to act in accordance to his father’s instructions that morning. We do know that JR visited BR bedroom numerous times that morning. There are the binoculars sitting in plain site on the kitchen nook by the phone in the kitchen. JR has admitted to looking for a van behind Mr. Barnhill’s house with those said binoculars.

If we look at PR fibers found in the ligature. The jacket she wore to the Whites that night disappeared and it is said she purchased one off the rack and turned it over. Maybe same fiber content but hardly an exact match. As evidence states.

There is evidence that BR could have been involved.

What I find most interesting is the fact that there are those that firmly believe the whole situation started in JB bedroom not the cellar. The cellar was used for staged purposes only. Yet, just outside this door is where JB lost her life. She was lying face down while she was being garroted and released her urine.

BR knew how JB was strangled, knew someone took out a knife, took her down to the cellar, hit her over the head in January of 97. I fail to see how BR could have overheard this conversation. The walls have ears and everyone in the house would have overheard evidence. Not just BR.

Just saying ….

 

[Swirlz]

That the autopsy results weren't made public doesn't mean the R's didn't have access to them.

Here's what has been made public about the ligature fibers in relation to Patsy:

From Kolar's book:

Lab technicians had identified eight different types of fibers on the sticky side of the duct tape used to cover JonBenét’s mouth. They included red acrylic, gray acrylic, and red polyester fibers that were subsequently determined by laboratory examination to be microscopically and chemically consistent to each other, as well as to fibers taken from Patsy Ramsey’s Essentials jacket. Further, fibers from this jacket were also matched to trace fibers collected from the wrist ligature, neck ligature, and vacuumed evidence from the paint tray and Wine Cellar floor.

Snipped from Patsy's Atlanta 2000 interview:

Bruce Levin (attorney with the DA's office): Based on the state of the art scientific testing, we believe the fibers from her [Patsy's] jacket were found in the paint tray, were found tied into the ligature found on JonBenet's neck, were found on the blanket that she is wrapped in, were found on the duct tape that is found on the mouth, and the question is: can she explain to us how those fibers appeared in those places that are associated with her daughter's death? And I understand you are not going to answer those.

There was no evidence to suggest a knife was used in the commission of this crime. BR is making that up.

 

[Lebowski]

fibers in the duct tape are especially compelling, because you don't expose the sticky side of tape until you're ready to use it.

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Fiber evidence of Patsy’s jacket:
2000-04-18: CNN Burden of Proof: Former Boulder Detective Steve Thomas

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0004/18/bp.00.html

CNN Transcript - Burden of Proof
Former Boulder Detective Steve Thomas 'Inside the Ramsey Murder Investigation'

Aired April 18, 2000 - 12:30 p.m. ET

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, CO-HOST: The JonBenet Ramsey murder investigation, this time from the investigator's eyes. Today on BURDEN OF PROOF: former Boulder Detective Steve Thomas, who is author of a controversial book about the murder.

VAN SUSTEREN: What about the fact that the body was moved? Did that make it virtually impossible to get clues from the body?

THOMAS: Well, let me give you an example, and that's an excellent point. As you know, on the adhesive side of the duct tape, which was removed from the victim's mouth, there were four fibers that were later determined to be microscopically and chemically consistent with four fibers from a piece of clothing that Patsy Ramsey was wearing, and had that piece of tape been removed at autopsy, and the integrity of it maintained, that would have made, I feel, a very compelling argument. But because that tape was removed, and dropped on the floor, a transference argument could certainly be potentially made by any defense in this case, and that's just one example of how a compromised crime scene may, if not irreparably, have damage the subsequent investigation.

I believing the interview from which you mention …
it is pointed out the key word of the facts are “consistent” not identical to the fiber evidence.
~

The evidence in which I suggest the knife was used in the cutting of the garrote.

One end of the cord, when found as evidence, had been burned to prevent fraying (making this new) while the other end appeared to have been cut with a sharp instrument and was frayed. This suggests the cord was cut to a specific length during the construction of the weapon, likely with a sharp knife or similar instrument and hurried.
Sure could have been PR scissors from a top the washer or BR knife found by the sink a few feet from the paint tray.

 

[ChiefJustice]

There was no evidence to suggest a knife was used in the commission of this crime. BR is making that up.

Just because one wasn't used to harm or kill JB doesn't mean one wasn't used to control her. JMO

 

[Rain on my Parade]

Just because one wasn't used to harm or kill JB doesn't mean one wasn't used to control her. JMO

That’s exactly what he said during his interview with the Good Dr.

Perhaps, I will get in trouble for posting this here. But it is topic.

 

[Swirlz]

I really think Burke should be left alone as he should be considered a victim. The rules here seem to not be enforced here is this case though.

I don't understand it either. Burke was cleared as a suspect in 1999.