Tom Cruise and Katie Holmes Are Divorcing

[Elley Mae]

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment...void-court-settlement-talks/story?id=16736234

Both parties have stated they want what's best for their 6-year-old daughter Suri and sources close to the case told ABC News "they have never ruled out trying to reach an amicable settlement." They are now trying to do just that.

bbm

 

[TorisMom003]

CNN had Tom Davis, Anne Archer's son, who is the (or was) spokeperson for the Celebrity Centre of the Church of Scientology on to answer questions concerning what the opposition of the "church" claims. This was done about 4 years ago. During one point Tom says that a person can go to the "churchs" website to find out what Scientology is and what their beliefs are. I call BS as I have been to the website and I have watched their video "What is Scientology" and they tell nothing about what it really is. Tom also talks about the Xenu part of Scientology saying that it makes no sense. Tom suggests that people ignore what is being spread on the web and that they instead go into a "church" and look for themselves. To think for themselves, to find out for themselves. Rather ironic that Tom Davis wants people to think for themselves and be open minded about a "religion" that frowns on thinking for yourself and finding the truth in what that "religion" is truly about.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n3czQxy3DbQ"]Scientologist Tommy Davis CNN interview - YouTube[/ame]

ETA: In further looking into the people that have been able to remove themselves from this cult I found some interesting information. Not only did David M's neice leave the "church" but so did her father and mother. David M's own brother and brother's wife left the "church" before their daughter did. Now doesn't that say something when your own brother decides that the "religion" you are head over is so out there that they can no longer associate themselves with it?!?

 

[gitana1]

http://mikemcclaughry.wordpress.com...950-intro-to-dianetics-by-john-w-campbell-jr/

This has early info on l ron hubbard hope its ok to post.

http://www.rickross.com/reference/scientology/scien240.html

Penthouse article 1983 L ron hubbard jr

The rickross article is a great one. Essentially, L Ron Hubbbard Jr., states that his father was big into satanism and that Scientology is essentially satanism rituals spread out over years.

I totally see that. I was hiking yesterday and it came to me that a lot of the philosophies of scientology are similar to satanism. It's really all about being a superhuman who can do whatever he or she wants and be the best. Well, that's satanism pretty much. The control of ex-members via the fair game doctrine is 100% satanism too. Scary.

But the appeal to the ego is what likely snares so many celebs, who are natural narcissists. Most religions are about becoming a better person morally and serving a higher power. For all their talk about "ethics" and "helping", they are really concerned with being superhuman and serving themselves.

Hubbard: We promised them the moon and then demonstrated a way to get there. They would sell their soul for that. We were telling someone that they could have the power of a god --that's what we were telling them.
Penthouse: What kind of people were tempted by this promise?

Hubbard: A whole range of people. People who wanted to raise their IQ, to feel better, to solve their problems. You also got people who wished to lord it over other people in the use of power. Remember, it's a power game, a matter of climbing a pyramidal hierarchy to the top, and it's who you can step on to get more power that counts. It appeals a great deal to neurotics. And to people who are greedy. It appeals a great deal to Americans, I think, because they tend to believe in instant everything, from instant coffee to instant nirvana. By just saying a few magic words or by doing a few assignments, one can become a god. People believe this. You see, Scientology doesn't really address the soul; it addresses the ego. What happens in Scientology is that a person's ego gets pumped up by this science-fiction fantasy helium into universe-sized proportions. And this is very appealing. It is especially appealing to the intelligentsia of this country, who are made to feel that they are the most highly intelligent people, when in actual fact, from an emotional standpoint, they are completely stupid. Fine professors, doctors, scientists, people involved in the arts and sciences, would fall into Scientology like you wouldn't believe. It appealed to their intellectual level and buttressed their emotional weaknesses. You show me a professor and I revert back to the fifties: I just kick him in the head, eat him for breakfast.

MOO too, but when I saw them all come out, and start "walk/block" with the actual protesters, and then the cops came and lined up, I thought that if I was driving by, I would've thought that all of them were protesting scientology. LOL.

And yes, I saw the little girl. She knows no better...but how horrible for her. And how difficult it will be to ever come away from that, being raised to believe that "SPs" are out to get them, and indoctrinated with the paranoia that scientology espouses.

I remember a conversation from back when I worked for a scientologist (who has since left the "church"), where this person was talking about "when the government comes, the first that will go is the intelligensia. Scientologists are the intelligensia, and they will come for us first. Because we know the truth, and that truth is that the government is suppressive, and wants us dead." Then this person told me, "the guns are in room, and here's the combo to the safe, and if you need to use them, do so." I remember thinking, at somewhere around 19, that the government being suppressive and coming after those they considered a threat (the intelligensia) made a weird kind of sense. At 19, it really kinda did. But at 25, it didn't...and it really doesn't now. LOL.

This was in the mid80s to late 80s, during the time of the original German issues and right about the time of LRH's "disappearance" (about a year or so) before his death. I remember working for this person when LRH did die...and how interesting it really was to watch the members of the church sort of gather around and worry that now that LRH was officially gone, the government was going to come after them full force.

I thank God that I wasn't as gullible (or rich) as others...I was offered many opportunities to "join", and again, was exposed to a whole lot of the "tech"...but never went that direction, despite being interested somewhat and curious, as a lot of late teens/early 20s are, in alternative faith and belonging to a group.

Just a bit of insight into the paranoia aspect of scientology. There is a whole lot of indoctrination that occurs, and when I consider the children of the cult, I cry inside.

Best-
Herding Cats

BBM. This is actually what has happened under every fascist government. The Nazi's did it, Franco did it, etc. The artists, intellectuals, teachers, writers are the first to go because they are they represent free thinking and are the enemy of extremist dogma.

But for the scientologists to claim they are the intelligentsia is laughable. They are, in actuality, much like the cultish followers of every fascist government.

 

[Steely Dan]

CNN had Tom Davis, Anne Archer's son, who is the (or was) spokeperson for the Celebrity Centre of the Church of Scientology on to answer questions concerning what the opposition of the "church" claims. This was done about 4 years ago. During one point Tom says that a person can go to the "churchs" website to find out what Scientology is and what their beliefs are. I call BS as I have been to the website and I have watched their video "What is Scientology" and they tell nothing about what it really is. Tom also talks about the Xenu part of Scientology saying that it makes no sense. Tom suggests that people ignore what is being spread on the web and that they instead go into a "church" and look for themselves. To think for themselves, to find out for themselves. Rather ironic that Tom Davis wants people to think for themselves and be open minded about a "religion" that frowns on thinking for yourself and finding the truth in what that "religion" is truly about.

Scientologist Tommy Davis CNN interview - YouTube

ETA: In further looking into the people that have been able to remove themselves from this cult I found some interesting information. Not only did David M's neice leave the "church" but so did her father and mother. David M's own brother and brother's wife left the "church" before their daughter did. Now doesn't that say something when your own brother decides that the "religion" you are head over is so out there that they can no longer associate themselves with it?!?

A year after that video where TD says no disconnection exists he was caught on tape talking about disconnection. Here's the VV article on it; http://blogs.villagevoice.com/runninscared/2011/08/tommy_davis_sci.php

 

[TorisMom003]

And now a video that shows that Tom Davis actually does know about the Xenu portion of L Ron Hubbard's thoughts/teachings. Short video that shows a clip of both interviews and the obvious lie that Tom Davis was caught in.

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaFmWT4ibX8&feature=related"]Tommy Davis confirms Scientology is based on "story of Xenu" - YouTube[/ame]

So, anyone think that some of us are now on the watch log of the Scientologists yet?

 

[Steely Dan]

And now a video that shows that Tom Davis actually does know about the Xenu portion of L Ron Hubbard's thoughts/teachings. Short video that shows a clip of both interviews and the obvious lie that Tom Davis was caught in.

Tommy Davis confirms Scientology is based on "story of Xenu" - YouTube

So, anyone think that some of us are now on the watch log of the Scientologists yet?

BBM

At this point if they are still writing down names of SP's then that's all they're doing. The SP quotient is so high right now that in order for them to record every SP on the planet they'd need an entire library to keep them up to date. The jury room here is not a public forum. So if there are scientologists here they may be keeping notes, but I don't think there's much they can do about it. Their world is collapsing all around them now. The TC and KH divorce is a marketing nightmare for them.

Before the TC and KH divorce I knew a little about scientology. The TC and KH divorce has interested a lot of people, as is evident in this thread, in finding out more. There are now enough defectors that people are starting to find out the truth behind the rumors. This could lead to a reexamination of the cults church status, an FBI investigation and more heat for them. GMA, Dateline and other places are doing pieces on them and I'm sure none of them are flattering. Even if they take an even keel and present both sides of the argument about scientology then scientology still loses. They can't make public statements without sounding bonkers. JMO

I hope Tommy is in the hole for transgressing an unwritten law and I hope his treatment is so harsh that he becomes a defector as well. If Tommy became a defector or an "SP" that would be very bad for scientology. He knows where (metaphorically) all of the bodies are buried.

 

[PAXIMUS]

There are probably few people who put in as much time as I have studying Scientology and I loath the entire organization, however, they should have a right to practice their religion freely and the courts in the US have ruled accordingly, what I would like to see stopped however is them causing harm to those who want to leave, that is where the line between religion and cult is crossed, if we allow them to practice their religion regardless of how strange it may seem to us, freely, they in turn should allow those who want to leave do so freely as well, when they do not, they become a menace that should be dealt with harshly and in short order.


I would also like to point out that Scientology itself is not the problem, most of the people involved are good people, it is one person who is causing all of the problems and that is DM, he is indeed a psychopath of the highest order and very likely guilty of crimes that should resut in time served in prison.

All of that said, I am glad Katie finally woke up but I dont think this was a real marriage to begin with, she was a beard from day one likely auditioned and won the position and knew exactly what she was getting in to, the ten year contract is now up and off she goes with her millions.


Read about operation FREAK OUT and operation SNOW WHITE for more information about how powerful an organization they are.

 

[Steely Dan]

There are probably few people who put in as much time as I have studying Scientology and I loath the entire organization, however, they should have a right to practice their religion freely and the courts in the US have ruled accordingly, what I would like to see stopped however is them causing harm to those who want to leave, that is where the line between religion and cult is crossed, if we allow them to practice their religion regardless of how strange it may seem to us, freely, they in turn should allow those who want to leave do so freely as well, when they do not, they become a menace that should be dealt with harshly and in short order.


I would also like to point out that Scientology itself is not the problem, most of the people involved are good people, it is one person who is causing all of the problems and that is DM, he is indeed a psychopath of the highest order and very likely guilty of crimes that should resut in time served in prison.

All of that said, I am glad Katie finally woke up but I dont think this was a real marriage to begin with, she was a beard from day one likely auditioned and won the position and knew exactly what she was getting in to, the ten year contract is now up and off she goes with her millions.


Read about operation FREAK OUT and operation SNOW WHITE for more information about how powerful an organization they are.

With all due respect I don't think scientology should be called a religion. It's a cult plain and simple IMO. I used to think that all religions are cults, but the more I study scientology the more I understand the difference.

I can walk into a Christian church and sit down and listen to the sermon and let the collection plate pass without putting in a dime. I can do that every Sunday for the rest of my life. Eventually something may be said about my coming every week and not donating a dime, but it wouldn't be a super high pressure sales tactic. In fact if I asked for a free Bible they'd probably give me one.

In a cult you can't walk in and walk out without handing over money. In fact all cults make it very difficult to leave. In one of the Kathy Griffin videos I posted she talks about how a former scientologist friend had to hire a lawyer who specialized in getting people out of cults.

 

[PAXIMUS]

With all due respect I don't think scientology should be called a religion. It's a cult plain and simple IMO. I used to think that all religions are cults, but the more I study scientology the more I understand the difference.

I can walk into a Christian church and sit down and listen to the sermon and let the collection plate pass without putting in a dime. I can do that every Sunday for the rest of my life. Eventually something may be said about my coming every week and not donating a dime, but it wouldn't be a super high pressure sales tactic. In fact if I asked for a free Bible they'd probably give me one.

In a cult you can't walk in and walk out without handing over money. In fact all cults make it very difficult to leave. In one of the Kathy Griffin videos I posted she talks about how a former scientologist friend had to hire a lawyer who specialized in getting people out of cults.

Yes that needs to be addressed but that isnt on Scientology that is on DM. If Marty Rathbun for example, were in charge, you would see an entirely different organization.

 

[Steely Dan]

Yes that needs to be addressed but that isnt on Scientology that is on DM. If Marty Rathbun for example, were in charge, you would see an entirely different organization.

Agreed.

 

[prima.facie]

With all due respect I don't think scientology should be called a religion. It's a cult plain and simple IMO. I used to think that all religions are cults, but the more I study scientology the more I understand the difference.

I can walk into a Christian church and sit down and listen to the sermon and let the collection plate pass without putting in a dime. I can do that every Sunday for the rest of my life. Eventually something may be said about my coming every week and not donating a dime, but it wouldn't be a super high pressure sales tactic. In fact if I asked for a free Bible they'd probably give me one.

Im not sure what kind of churches you have been in - ive been in more than i care to have - but the guilt of tithing is MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR sales tactic from the pulpit in every church ive been in of various denominations. to this day my father reminds me to tithe to the church - i dont even go to church!! and lets not even get into churches that have RETAIL STORES in them to sell you bibles and other things......good ol christian churches are big money making business.....i know. i literally grew up in the church. ugh.

In a cult you can't walk in and walk out without handing over money. In fact all cults make it very difficult to leave. In one of the Kathy Griffin videos I posted she talks about how a former scientologist friend had to hire a lawyer who specialized in getting people out of cults.

as ive said, my family (due to my father being an ordained pastor) got involved in a southern baptist church....the Christian Bible was preached every day, there was a bible college and school for us kids.....yet it was a cult in every sense of the word. i unfortunately have first hand experience and was a victim myself....in fact, have thought of starting a thread on it because FINALLY someone is being held accountable for the molestation of many girls in that CHRISTIAN CHURCH.....but doing so is too hard for me at this time.

the lines of religion and cult are blurred and merged together often. fact.

 

[PAXIMUS]

I just want to clarify that I am not defending COS any more than I would defend Christianity, Islam, or any other religion, but when I speak in those terms I am talking about the INSTITUTIONS that oversee those practices, the practices themselves are largely harmless and do help a lot of people, whether it be the Gospels, reading the Koran, practicing Buddhist meditation or using Hubbards "technology". These things have and do help a lot of people, the problem is the institutions that grow up around them and turn them in to something other than what they really are, and wrt COS that institution is led by a very sick, twisted and vile human being in DM.

If you want the real meat and potatoes of Scientology which can indeed be helpful to some people, check out the freezone.

 

[21merc7]

I've been thinking about all this harassment, threats, and even attempts to kill (video I posted much earlier in the day) people that want to leave.

What exactly is it that is to be kept secret? These are abusers tactics. Ie..if you ever tell I will hurt you. Kill you, destroy you. Just choose the words.

It can't be the Xenu, mind bending, live forever stuff. That is just absurd.

Too many have voiced about "some" of the abuse, and about money being moved around. (Which should be investigated in every place they are. This needs to stop!)

What is the BIG secret(s)? Secrets worth all of this?

 

[PAXIMUS]

I've been thinking about all this harassment, threats, and even attempts to kill (video I posted much earlier in the day) people that want to leave.

What exactly is it that is to be kept secret? These are abusers tactics. Ie..if you ever tell I will hurt you. Kill you, destroy you. Just choose the words.

It can't be the Xenu, mind bending, live forever stuff. That is just absurd.

Too many have voiced about "some" of the abuse, and about money being moved around. (Which should be investigated in every place they are. This needs to stop!)

What is the BIG secret(s)? Secrets worth all of this?

Out of intellectual curiosity many years ago and in an attempt to understand this Scientology thing I joined, and was fortunate enough to know someone who allowed me to partake of the tech without having to pay a dime for it and I went as high as OT 2 and as far as I can tell there was no big secret, you are continually told that this or that will happen when you get to a certain level and when that doesnt happen for you it s because you are not doing something right or are with holding secrets from your auditors etc and you are then sent back down the "bridge" to start again and work your way back up wash rinse and repeat. Now let me say that some of the tech actually did help me in a lot of ways, but a lot of it is just BS and a way to make a lot of money off people who are desperate and grieving for various reasons but it is worth noting that this policy of charging people all this money is mostly the result of DM and not something that Hubbard himself was in to, also Marty Rathbun who was DM's right hand man for many many years, would like to make it all available for free for everyone and became DM's enemy number one for even suggesting such.

 

[TorisMom003]

There are probably few people who put in as much time as I have studying Scientology and I loath the entire organization, however, they should have a right to practice their religion freely and the courts in the US have ruled accordingly, what I would like to see stopped however is them causing harm to those who want to leave, that is where the line between religion and cult is crossed, if we allow them to practice their religion regardless of how strange it may seem to us, freely, they in turn should allow those who want to leave do so freely as well, when they do not, they become a menace that should be dealt with harshly and in short order.


I would also like to point out that Scientology itself is not the problem, most of the people involved are good people, it is one person who is causing all of the problems and that is DM, he is indeed a psychopath of the highest order and very likely guilty of crimes that should resut in time served in prison.

All of that said, I am glad Katie finally woke up but I dont think this was a real marriage to begin with, she was a beard from day one likely auditioned and won the position and knew exactly what she was getting in to, the ten year contract is now up and off she goes with her millions.


Read about operation FREAK OUT and operation SNOW WHITE for more information about how powerful an organization they are.

From what I have found this is not completely accurate. David M learned at the knee of the founder, L R Hubbard. While there are many that believe in Scientology that are good, decent people there are many more that completely understand what is really going on behind the scenes that seem to embrace it. L R Hubbard was just as, if not more so, demented as David M is. The abuse did not start when David M took over, it simply continued and in some cases intensified. There are reports from those who have left the "church" that talk about the punishments that L R Hubbard dished out. Again, this is not something new that occured when David M took over. David M just continued with the traditions started by L R Hubbard.

 

[PAXIMUS]

From what I have found this is not completely accurate. David M learned at the knee of the founder, L R Hubbard. While there are many that believe in Scientology that are good, decent people there are many more that completely understand what is really going on behind the scenes that seem to embrace it. L R Hubbard was just as, if not more so, demented as David M is. The abuse did not start when David M took over, it simply continued and in some cases intensified. There are reports from those who have left the "church" that talk about the punishments that L R Hubbard dished out. Again, this is not something new that occured when David M took over. David M just continued with the traditions started by L R Hubbard.

Ron is not someone I would ever defend, he had his burdens to bear also but there is no question at all for those inside and in the know that DM is the one who ran the COS in to the ground and turned it in to what it is today.

 

[PAXIMUS]

What is being overlooked here by some is that Scientology and the Church of Scientology are two completely different things and totally unrelated to eachother. DM is the head of the COS and he changed Ron's tech and did a lot of other things that made the COS something completely different than Scientology or rather what should be called Dianetics.

 

[Steely Dan]

Im not sure what kind of churches you have been in - ive been in more than i care to have - but the guilt of tithing is MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR MAJOR sales tactic from the pulpit in every church ive been in of various denominations. to this day my father reminds me to tithe to the church - i dont even go to church!! and lets not even get into churches that have RETAIL STORES in them to sell you bibles and other things......good ol christian churches are big money making business.....i know. i literally grew up in the church. ugh.



as ive said, my family (due to my father being an ordained pastor) got involved in a southern baptist church....the Christian Bible was preached every day, there was a bible college and school for us kids.....yet it was a cult in every sense of the word. i unfortunately have first hand experience and was a victim myself....in fact, have thought of starting a thread on it because FINALLY someone is being held accountable for the molestation of many girls in that CHRISTIAN CHURCH.....but doing so is too hard for me at this time.

the lines of religion and cult are blurred and merged together often. fact.

I'm very sorry to hear about that. It sounds like you belonged to a church that had no idea about what Christ really taught. My father was a northern Baptist minister and if you want to read about what he taught me you can look at my blog.

I also left the church because of money. (My dad wasn't preaching at the time. He was a professor, and so we belonged to a church he was only a member at.) I had agreed to tithe five dollars a week because I was only 16 and had just started working at McDonald's. I was given envelopes to put the money in. I did give the money each week, but not in the envelopes. I got a letter scolding me for backing out on my promise and it almost sounded like a collection letter. That's when I stopped going. However, nobody followed me. My dad and I still lived under the same roof and loved each other. I was never labeled a SP to the church and I went on my way.

Your experience sounds a lot different than mine and really horrible. I think there are a lot of churches like I described though.

 

[SyraKelly]

What they did to that poor man Raul is exactly what this *church* is all about-bleeding people dry for services that don't make a bit of sense.I still find it hard to believe big time movie stars believe this BS!

 

[PAXIMUS]

Yowza! I just finished watching the hour long documentary that Steely posted earlier in the thread, well, this one:

THE SECRETS OF SCIENTOLOGY (FULL DOCUMENTARY) - YouTube

and I read some of the ex-scientology young people's accounts.

So much to be said here. I do hope Dateline or some show will do something, strike while the iron is hot so to say.

This group claims to be opposed to psychiatry/psychology. That is because this is their main tool, only in it's most negative aspects. This is nothing than control tactics similar to the abusive spouse, parent, military leader, other cult leaders.

This group also incorporates little bits of many other religions, to even include a caste system. (Much more to be said.)

Any group that films you openly, or secretly with the tiny spy cams that again are used by abusers, stalks and abuses you, applies lie detectors (WTH?), is not one that could be deemed religious, imo. Any group that keeps families separate is not one to be deemed religious. None of this stuff has the best interests of the individual at heart. Only the best interests of the money making machine it is. Low cost to operate with high dividends from the followers either in money or labor. (Much more to be said.)

I did start chuckling at that level III space alien god dude thing. Oh my. But what else would you expect from a religion started by a sci-fi writer??! Wonder what you are told at the higher levels?

I can see why some young people would get involved. The nice, but no one on them, demo of pools, tennis grounds, etc... The help with raising a family (always have a guaranteed job of some sort), the help with not doing drugs or alcohol if one feels weak toward that. The community presentation (false as it may be.)

I just wish there were more exposure to cults nowadays. Also wish critical thinking was taught in schools and on television. Perhaps even world religion, philosophy, psychology, and footage of some of the most heinous leaders of all time in action to show how nicely it begins and how rapidly it ramps up into full on control through threats, intimidation, and sometimes death.

Interesting that the one actor had 3 very large German Shepards as his front line of loving furries.

I'll try to get to more of this bizarre stuff later. Most fascinated now.

ETA: I figured out why I never liked TC's acting, I always felt it is poor acting, but just not my preferred style. Then I saw the other actors/actresses involved and feel the same about them. It is fake. They are doing just as they have been trained! I do believe it is termed "method acting" but those people in this documentary were doing just this same in their display of tactics.

All important points but this is all the CHURCH OF SCIENTOLOGY that does these things and not Scientology itself, you cant confuse COS with scientology anymore than you would confuse the INSTITUTION OF CHRISTIANITY and all its child molesting clergy, Jim Bakkers, Jimmy Swaggerts etc with most of the good folks who read the Gospels and follow the teachings of Jesus. Its apples and oranges and one should not be confused with the other.

Religion is not the problem, it is the institutions that lay claim to those religious practices and try and control them that should be eradicated.