Tommy Croslin claims mistreatment in Putman Jail per Att

[Missingmeds]

Chief of Staff Rick Ryan's statement to me says it all.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/24112773/detail.html

The Putnam County Sheriff's Office responded to the allegations Thursday, saying while there was no official internal investigation, they did look into the matter.

"I'm not calling it frivolous. I'm just saying we are not going to respond to it at this point," Chief Rick Ryan said.

Ryan did not address the specific allegations but said his investigators did not do anything improper.

"Croslin is in jail on drug charges facing sentencing," Ryan said. "Our folks talked to him about another pending investigation, totally separate. Again, we're just not going to respond to the allegations."

As such there should be video to refute what is being alleged was done. So why not just show the video and be done with it?

Also why not a formal investigation by an outside the county LE agency?

 

[suspicious1]

& this is a real possibility. Say that LE has been on to Tommy since he put himself at that trailer, banging on the door. No cop would take Tommy's word, that his involvement stopped at that door. So, they gather more evidence, but they need something substantial...so, LE concocts the 'missed detail' in one of Misty's lie test, & lets Tommy think they suspect Joe as the killer-but they need details to get him. Tommy seeing a way out of a huge jam, takes a gamble & gives them the details. He claims to have walked in & seen a dead Haleigh, & to have been forced by Joe, to help dispose of her body, & tells them how, with what & where. Did LE find anything of value, at the river search? I think so, & this is why, IMO...Misty admitted in a recording, that she was saying stuff because it had been put into her head. Tommy also backed away from the Joe story, but now he's back on it. Why? Because LE must've found something incriminating, & if Tommy stays backed off that story, that only leaves him. & my guess is that LE let him know that they found something, but it didn't point to Joe. & they might have let him know that Joe didn't lead them there, Misty didn't lead them there. He did.

I agree with this. To be honest, I always felt that Tommy knew what happened, at least part of it, but didn't actually take part in whatever happened to Haleigh. I thought that Tommy putting himself at the mh with Jo, was Tommy's way of making the "story" sound more believable if he claim to have witnessed it first hand. I thought about how some people would relay second hand information as if they witnessed it themselves, which would be a lie because they did not witness it but rather heard about it, although the event that they are speaking of really did happen, KWIM? Does that make sense?
Now...I'm not so sure about Tommy. Something is really wrong here. I am one who believes that Ratgate had something to do with Haleigh and nothing else. I know some of you disagree with this but that is just my own opinion. I'm starting to think that Tommy did in fact witness something but he was not with JO, he was with either Ron and/or Misty. I, too, believe that LE found something incriminating Tommy, and that is why they are hanging on to Tommy so tough.

JMO though

 

[suspicious1]

Snipped for space

Werter sees both of these "stories" as equivalent, Tommy's story and Misty's story. In his statement, one's the same as the other. A look at the transcript will show that he never says "my client told LE the truth about the night Haleigh disappeared." He just says that his client should not be charged with "felony" murder and there's a "person who should be charged" who hasn't been because of these "inconsistencies." For inconsistencies, read "lies told by Tommy and Misty that don't add up" to confirming each other's "stories." This part of the text shows me that Werter doesn't even really believe his own client.

I see your point. But I also believe that Werter is saying his client should not be charged with felony murder, because whatever role Tommy played was small compared to the roles of the others ("several persons of interest"). I don't think Werter is buying into Tommy's story either, but I think there is some truth to him stating that "the person who should be charged" hasn't been because of Tommy and Misty's inconsistencies. So if LE and Werter don't buy this Jo story, who else is left? RON...The other one sitting in jail on dang near million dollar bond. Because of Tommy and Misty's inconsistencies, they cannot charge Ron. But then that makes me question why Tommy said LE didn't want to hear anything about Ron. So at some point Tommy told LE about Ron...I think LE already know Ron's involvement, but they also know that Tommy was a part of the plan and Tommy would not tell that part, and that's what they were wanting to hear. Tommy ties into this mess along with Misty and Ron. JMO though.

Now here's something I think he does believe:

Haleigh was killed and that Tommy knows who did it. The sentence is kind of cryptic, as he is referring to some earlier discussion with JVM, but "where the body might have been since it was dumped into that part of the river" most likely means that the problem is locating the body "since [because] it was dumped into that part of the river." Less likely, but still possible, he could mean "since [the point in time] when it was dumped into that part of the river." First, I note that he is not talking about Haleigh, but rather, "the body," which suggests to me that he has fully accepted that she is dead and the body was dumped. And the "since" tells me that he believes the body was dumped "into that part of the river."

What Werter is doing now is trying to position someone else in that "felony murder" slot...

JMO, but I believe that the area of the last search is significant, and the fact that Tommy knew that much, tells me that Tommy knows what really happened and he knows who is directly responsible. Don't forget that Misty made it a point to have the Cummings informed on the search before it happened and don't forget that the Cummings went and searched that area all afternoon. IMO, something happened in that area, but Tommy is not telling his part or role in it. I, too, believe that Tommy is the weakest link and LE is trying to wear him down because there IS someone else (and Tommy knows who) that needs to be positioned in that murder slot.


http://http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP...2/ijvm.01.html

BBM

All just my own opinion.

 

[Whisperer]

That was LE's last chance..today he will be gone. There is no hope for Haleigh. I am not worried about poor Tommy's rights. I am worried about Haleigh never to be found. LE is doing what they think they can do to resolvel the case...the haze with tommy and all of them.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

:waitasec: From the first article it seems as if it was Sheriff Jeff Hardy that sent Tommy (Hank Jr.) to Putnam. I am confused though because the reason he was put in St.Johns was so that he would not be with others jailed in the case. What changed? I know that he plead nolo and has a sentencing date, but that dose not change the fact that he would still be in the same jail as others, since the others still have not been sentenced with the exception of Hope Sykes. Again, I am not sticking up for anyone except Haleigh. Just question the reason that this incident happen and if what is said is true, I wonder what else is going on in Putnam? :waitasec:

Croslin back in Putnam custody
Sheriff Jeff Hardy decision to move Hank Jr. back
June 23, 2010

"Snip" Palatka Daily News


St. Johns County was holding Croslin at the request of Putnam Sheriff Jeff Hardy so he would not be with others jailed in the case held in custody in Palatka.

Now that he has pleaded and is scheduled to be sentenced soon, its my decision that its appropriate to bring him back to this jail, Hardy said.


http://www.palatkadailynews.com/arti...ews/news01.txt

Croslin's Attorney: Stop Strong-Arming
Motion Orders Investigators To Stop Talking To Hank Croslin Jr. Without Permission

POSTED: Thursday, July 1, 2010
"Snip"
Document: Motion Filed In State Vs. Hank Croslin Jr. Drug Case http://www.news4jax.com/download/2010/0701/24113279.pdf




Video: Hank Croslin Complains Of Harassment http://www.news4jax.com/video/24115459/index.html



PUTNAM COUNTY, Fla. -- Whether it's strong-arm tactics or leaning on a suspect, whatever you call it, Hank Croslin Jr. said it's happening to him and he wants it to stop.

Hank Jr. Croslin's defense attorney, filed a motion ordering investigators to stop talking to Hank Jr. without his permission.

Hank Jr. Croslin said that investigators have been threatening him so he would cooperate in Haleigh Cummings investigation.
According to the motion, there were threats that Croslin did not need an attorney and that his attorney was ratting him out and was going to testify against him in court.


Hank Jr. Croslin said that an investigator threatened to charge him with Haleigh's murder if he did not speak with him and that the investigators would give false information to the other prisoners to cause Hank Jr. Croslin physical harm.

Read the rest of the article here: http://www.news4jax.com/news/24112773/detail.html

Croslin Files Motion Alleging Harassment
Attorney Wants To Move Croslin To St. Johns County
POSTED: 12:53 pm EDT July 1, 2010

"Snip"

PALATKA, Fla. -- http://www.wesh.com/news/24110371/detail.html
Attorney for Hank Croslin Jr. has filed a motion in court claiming Hank Jr. (Tommy) had been harassed and threatened by authorities.


The motion stated he was recently moved from the St. Johns County Jail to the Putnam County Jail, where Croslin Jr. was placed in the general population section in a cell with bad plumbing and ventilation.

That PCSO visited Croslin Jr. to harass and threaten him.
Allegations that detectives said Croslin Jr. would be charged with the slaying of Haleigh if he doesn't talk..

Allegations that a Sheriff's Office captain berated Croslin Jr. and accused him of murder in front of other people.

Alleged threats telling Croslin Jr. that detectives would give other prisoners false information about him that could lead to "physical harm."

Read Motion http://www.wesh.com/download/2010/0701/24110635.pdf


Croslin's attorney said his client's civil rights were violated and stated he wants to move his client back to jail in St. Johns County.

A judge will hear the motion on July 16.

 

[MADJGNLAW]

Sorry if this was already posted, I just read it.

PCSO PRESS RELEASE Hank Croslin Returned to Putnam Jail
2010-6-24 by: Lt. Johnny Greenwood http://www.pcso.us/2010-6-24-a

 

[4Jacy]

Wow. LE is trying to solve a MURDER of a 5 year old INNOCENT child. I could care less what LE does or doesn't do to these so-called "grownups" that were involved and/or had knowledge of her death.

I WILL keep Haleigh front and foremost on my list of importance, and to heck with all of these liars that could care less about justice for Haleigh or the value of her life!

First of all we don't know if this is true. And if it is, who the H LL cares? Haleigh is missing, probably dead, and these smug idiots are sitting in jail complaining about air quality, food, clothes.

I realize it's not the American way and that LE is not allowed to torture or harrass their prisoners, however in the case of a little child I think it should be allowed.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

:waitasec: From the first article it seems as if it was Sheriff Jeff Hardy that sent Tommy (Hank Jr.) to Putnam. I am confused though because the reason he was put in St.Johns was so that he would not be with others jailed in the case. What changed?

snipped

What changed is they realized after five months, the separation strategy wasn't working and they wanted him in their jail so they could ask more questions. Nothing wrong with that. He's their prisoner. Tommy couldn't take it and whined to his attorney, "They're threatening me, they're asking me questions.". So attorney Werter files a motion fraught with typos, and calls Cousin Joe "skinny". Professional guy, that Werter.

In the notice for the hearing of the Prohibition complaint signed by Werter, he tells the Putnam County Sheriff's representative: "Please conduct yourself accordingly." WTH?

 

[seeking truth]

First of all we don't know if this is true. And if it is, who the H LL cares? Haleigh is missing, probably dead, and these smug idiots are sitting in jail complaining about air quality, food, clothes.

I realize it's not the American way and that LE is not allowed to torture or harrass their prisoners, however in the case of a little child I think it should be allowed.

4Jacy, I responded to your post to me in the thread for Tommy's appearance today.

I disagree with you regarding the part of your post above that I bolded and copied here:

I realize it's not the American way and that LE is not allowed to torture or harrass their prisoners, however in the case of a little child I think it should be allowed.(4Jacy)

I think it IS the American way. UNFORTUNATELY. We, as a nation, have struggled to become more civilized, more compassionate, less vindictive and yet, we seem to be slipping back into the dark ages; if we ever truly left them in the first place.

To the first part of your post, copied here:

"First of all we don't know if this is true. And if it is, who the H LL cares? Haleigh is missing, probably dead, and these smug idiots are sitting in jail complaining about air quality, food, clothes." (4Jacy)


I, for one, CARE what happens to those in jail, in prison.
Air quality, food, clothes...very important. More so, the violence, and the threat of violence. That sickens me. If it sickens us that someone who has not even been charged, let alone proven in court to have hurt this precious child, has the audacity to complain about fears for his physical well-being at the hands of those who have incited the other inmate's anger, then how are we any better, as a society, than those who commit crimes and are sentenced to prison? (This is a general question and not directed at you, 4Jacy).

THESE ARE MY OPINIONS.

 

[seeking truth]

snipped

What changed is they realized after five months, the separation strategy wasn't working and they wanted him in their jail so they could ask more questions. Nothing wrong with that. He's their prisoner. Tommy couldn't take it and whined to his attorney, "They're threatening me, they're asking me questions.". So attorney Werter files a motion fraught with typos, and calls Cousin Joe "skinny". Professional guy, that Werter.

In the notice for the hearing of the Prohibition complaint signed by Werter, he tells the Putnam County Sheriff's representative: "Please conduct yourself accordingly." WTH?

Hi aksleuth,

I'm taken aback by your stating above "He's their prisoner."

We don't know what is happening to him in the jail, but I can imagine, and through his attorney, Tommy is pleading for help.

He is "A" prisoner and he does not belong to anyone. He has not lost the right to be safe. He is, still, a human being.

This is my very strong opinion.

 

[4Jacy]

4Jacy, I responded to your post to me in the thread for Tommy's appearance today.

I disagree with you regarding the part of your post above that I bolded and copied here:

I realize it's not the American way and that LE is not allowed to torture or harrass their prisoners, however in the case of a little child I think it should be allowed.(4Jacy)

I think it IS the American way. UNFORTUNATELY. We, as a nation, have struggled to become more civilized, more compassionate, less vindictive and yet, we seem to be slipping back into the dark ages; if we ever truly left them in the first place.

To the first part of your post, copied here:

"First of all we don't know if this is true. And if it is, who the H LL cares? Haleigh is missing, probably dead, and these smug idiots are sitting in jail complaining about air quality, food, clothes." (4Jacy)


I, for one, CARE what happens to those in jail, in prison.
Air quality, food, clothes...very important. More so, the violence, and the threat of violence. That sickens me. If it sickens us that someone who has not even been charged, let alone proven in court to have hurt this precious child, has the audacity to complain about fears for his physical well-being at the hands of those who have incited the other inmate's anger, then how are we any better, as a society, than those who commit crimes and are sentenced to prison? (This is a general question and not directed at you, 4Jacy).

THESE ARE MY OPINIONS.

Perhaps, in this country, if justice was expediated, we would have less crime. It makes me sick to think of poor Laci Peterson and her baby and that
Scott sits in prison, living off tax payers money after all this time. Where the h ll is justice?!
Jail is not a spa. Jail is jail. Prisoners aren't supposed to be pampered. If they don't like it perhaps they could be law abiding citizens.

 

[ilovemew]

Today an elderly woman died in her home because it was so hot and she could not afford to have air conditioning. As far as I know she was never in prison, never robbed someone in their own home and never drove her children intoxicated to their bus stop. She is who I have sympathy for. Inmates in America have too many rights IMO. We as tax payers have to pay for their sex change operations and ridiculous stuff like that. Also I don't have dental insurance-if I get a tooth ache it's tough tu-tu's for me-meanwhile Ron complains he will only get tramadol or something not up to his standards for his. I say cry me a river. Don't forget Tommy didn't want his children to have new beds so he could have the money for himself. :sick:

 

[ilovemew]

Sex-change drugs a right, judge says
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/89701297.html

92-Year-Old Dies During Heat Wave, Coroner Says
http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headlines/97863759.html

 

[LaLaw2000]

Chief of Staff Rick Ryan's statement to me says it all.

http://www.news4jax.com/news/24112773/detail.html

The Putnam County Sheriff's Office responded to the allegations Thursday, saying while there was no official internal investigation, they did look into the matter.

"I'm not calling it frivolous. I'm just saying we are not going to respond to it at this point," Chief Rick Ryan said.

Ryan did not address the specific allegations but said his investigators did not do anything improper.

"Croslin is in jail on drug charges facing sentencing," Ryan said. "Our folks talked to him about another pending investigation, totally separate. Again, we're just not going to respond to the allegations."

As such there should be video to refute what is being alleged was done. So why not just show the video and be done with it?

Also why not a formal investigation by an outside the county LE agency?

Down here in Louisiana when there are ANY allegations of mistreatment in the jail/correctional center, Louisiana State Police investigators come in and conduct the investigation. I fully agree that this should be investigated at a higher than local level.

OTOH, I hope no one complains at the outcome of the investigation. Let the evidence or lack thereof speak for itself. I personally do not believe a word that comes out of Tommy's mouth at this point. We will see.

JMO

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

Mew--I share your sorrow as a 92 year old died from heat today in a 2nd story bedroom with the window just a few inches open. I am sure there will be more law-abiding citizens in similar shape found along the Atlantic Seaboard. Heartbreaker. Yes it is.

I am not a member of the ACLU--I argue with them on MANY things but I do believe in civil rights. Were I falsely accused of something and mistreated, be dam* sure I would let them know. BUT, I would prove my damn innocence or cooperate before I yelled mistreatment. Geez Louise where do these comments/beliefs originate? First Misty whined about her conditions and wrote the governor and now Tommy, too is suffering? LE cannot be that uninformed to know that most "visits" were taped. I believe it is a ploy. Sorry, I am not one to believe that water boarding is any more civilized than murdering a child. I agree that neither is the answer...oh, on 24--I'm like go Jack but we (LE) should be smarter and sturdier on a case of a five year old darling. JMO.

Were either Werther or Fields at the dock visits?

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

The other point is am I the only idiot thinking, given the high profile nature, that LE would just after 16 months risk this case?

 

[kamky]

The other point is am I the only idiot thinking, given the high profile nature, that LE would just after 16 months risk this case?

I think that LE would be very careful, at this point, not to do anything to risk this case. It's possible, given the high emotions of this case and the probable exhaustion of LE that someone might have pushed the boundries a little far, but I'm sure that they have had it drilled into them to not do anything stupid to jeapordize the case.

On the other hand, there is no reaon that a defense attorney would not push the boundries as far as possible to make his client look sympathetic or wronged. This is the job of a defense attorney as long as it is not illegal. Anything that is a delaying tactic will only help their client, as has been demonstrated by the Casey Anthony team.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Sex-change drugs a right, judge says
http://www.jsonline.com/news/wisconsin/89701297.html

92-Year-Old Dies During Heat Wave, Coroner Says
http://www.wibw.com/nationalnews/headlines/97863759.html

Here is another good one..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=alcK_QBE7h8&feature=related

 

[Missingmeds]

Has it occurred to anyone else that most people would follow the thoughts that are being posted here? That most people by now would not believe a thing that Tommy says and that is why they think that they can get away with doing what they did?

As I said, I tend to believe what Tommy says. Reason one for that would be that a simple release of the video of that interrogation would answer all the questions as to what was said and asked and how he was treated.

Reason two is the lame statement made by Ryan that PCSO looked into the allegations and found something improper but are not saying what exactly and that the investigation is done. I would think that with the attention that the Haleigh case has on it and the attention that the people involved have been getting that PCSO would want to avoid the very thought of impropriety and have an outside agency look into the charges that Tommy is making thru his attorney.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Hi aksleuth,

I'm taken aback by your stating above "He's their prisoner."

We don't know what is happening to him in the jail, but I can imagine, and through his attorney, Tommy is pleading for help.

He is "A" prisoner and he does not belong to anyone. He has not lost the right to be safe. He is, still, a human being.

This is my very strong opinion.

As per your request, I am quoting you completely.

The bolded part where I said "he's their prisoner", I meant, he is PCSO's prisoner officially, not St Johns County SO's prisoner, who was housing him for PCSO. Nothing more, nothing less. He is Putnam County's prisoner.