Tommy Croslin claims mistreatment in Putman Jail per Att

[OneLostGrl]

Most of you probably already know, but Tommy's attorney James Werter has opened a channel at YouTube called "werterlaw". He has had a running dialogue for the past few days seemingly to promote Tommy's claims and postion. I posted a few comments that essentially amounted to "Tommy lied about the alligators and failed his polygraph, why should I believe anything he says?"

This was his reply to me:



WTH? Is there anyone who can translate this shuck and jive mumbo jumbo into something that I can understand?

Aww he's showing off his big words! :loser:

 

[OneLostGrl]

maybe he's saying that it's not out of the realm of possibility, that there could've been that one exception to the rule, & an alligator was feeding that night. So we need to broaden our narrow minded thinking, when it comes to mother nature, & accept that possibility. ummm, but if he is...that's gonna be a hard sale.

IMO his client has everything to do with this beautiful child being taken from her family and he knows it. This dude plays with his words to try and confuse people.

 

[greenbean]

Alligators do not swarm docks in FL. Unless maybe those alligators are on meth amphetamine. In that county, I wouldn't be surprised.

 

[dodie20]

Punishment? I agree, we should all be held accountable for our actions but rehabilitation is supposed to be part of that process as well. That part of it has gotten lost- we put people in cages and forget about 'em. Maybe we aren't supposed to like jail but most of us who have been in jail eventually get out and wouldn't it be nice to know that when we do get out we have learned a thing or two about how to act according to the rules of society? Simply lockin' us up and forgetting about us.. not caring what happens to us, treating us as if we are all bad isn't teaching us much about how we should treat others.

you're right, & it hurts to see loved ones just as screwed up, when they get out. Drugs & alcohol are pretty easy to get, while in the pen, so going cold turkey isn't much of an option, for an addict. & I believe that cold turkey & will power is the only real way. I knew a man who went in for molestation, & the only thing prison did for him, was prolong his life. He'd had several strokes before, & by all rights should've been dead within a year...but the prison system took good care of him, released him, & he died of old age in a nursing home. Another guy I know, came out a worse alcoholic than when he went in! & alcohol related violence is what got him into that trouble. (He beat his wife's bf & left him for dead). This guy lived on homemade prison wine for 4 years, & now Drs give him less than 2 years to live. I guess he rotted his gut, right out. He's 29. I wish there was more rehab, counseling, life skill classes, in prison. The people I know were never even eligible for academic classes. It's a crying shame, because whether they ever get out or not, inmates should be learning & working, & not just wiling away the hours.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Punishment? I agree, we should all be held accountable for our actions but rehabilitation is supposed to be part of that process as well. That part of it has gotten lost- we put people in cages and forget about 'em. Maybe we aren't supposed to like jail but most of us who have been in jail eventually get out and wouldn't it be nice to know that when we do get out we have learned a thing or two about how to act according to the rules of society? Simply lockin' us up and forgetting about us.. not caring what happens to us, treating us as if we are all bad isn't teaching us much about how we should treat others.

BBM

But shouldn't we all have learned how to behave ourselves, abide by the rules, and how to treat others when we were children? The vast majority of the people learned early, haven't ended up in prison, and know the consequences of breaking the law is prison, or capital punishment in some instances. Expecting to learn how to treat people after we've been sentenced seems a bit backwards, doesn't it? Tommy is an adult, married, father of three, shouldn't he already know the rules? As an old mantra goes: If you do the crime, you have to do the time.

Sometimes, we have to take responsibility for ourselves. Imagine that.

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

:waitasec:

I think that LE would be very careful, at this point, not to do anything to risk this case. It's possible, given the high emotions of this case and the probable exhaustion of LE that someone might have pushed the boundries a little far, but I'm sure that they have had it drilled into them to not do anything stupid to jeapordize the case.

On the other hand, there is no reaon that a defense attorney would not push the boundries as far as possible to make his client look sympathetic or wronged. This is the job of a defense attorney as long as it is not illegal. Anything that is a delaying tactic will only help their client, as has been demonstrated by the Casey Anthony team.

ITA. LE would have to be out of their collective minds to "force" interviews etc. PCSO is certainly being monitored by FDLE and the FBI. I initially thought Werter had some guts. Seems he believed his client all too well and with the poly results, I gotta ask WHY? :banghead: A defense attorney can and will do ANYTHING but what's got me stumped is why per her MS pics, is Lindsy looking far from an agrieved wife? I'd LOVE to know what she knows. I don't follow the ANT case too closely--this is my first one but if you consider Tommy making a plea now later than Ron's trial--I just keep shaking my head. Tommy making this allegation doesn't make any sense, except from a defense attorney's point of view. Whatever my initial respect was for Werter, I am now REALLY re-thinking the whole mess. I cannot though believe SO MANY PEOPLE can all by telling lies. :waitasec:That makes me All :crazy:JMO

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Most of you probably already know, but Tommy's attorney James Werter has opened a channel at YouTube called "werterlaw". He has had a running dialogue for the past few days seemingly to promote Tommy's claims and postion. I posted a few comments that essentially amounted to "Tommy lied about the alligators and failed his polygraph, why should I believe anything he says?"

This was his reply to me:

You're right as to the temperature but broadening all the circumstances and feeding habits to get a clear view of the situation.

WTH? Is there anyone who can translate this shuck and jive mumbo jumbo into something that I can understand?

Now we know why his legal motion didn't make much sense. His response to my comment at You Tube was a bit more coherent, except the football reference :wink: :

ak: Mr. Werter, why are you not concerned about the rights of a poor innocent child, instead of worrying about the rights of a known liar and drug addict? For shame. You should be the first one pleading for Tommy Croslin to come clean and tell the truth so justice can be served for the CHILD.

werterlaw: This has been one of the most emotionally distressing cases of my 20 year career. But I stand by my oaths, the Bar, law enforcement and military, that everybody is entitled to those rights. Even you. However, the only thing that Tommy is guilty of, is succumbing to his own fears. Monday morning quarterbacking rarely is applicable.

Notice, he made no mention of THE CHILD. Why does he think I'd need his services? Heck, I'd call Jose Baez first! :crazy:

 

[OneLostGrl]

BBM

But shouldn't we all have learned how to behave ourselves, abide by the rules, and how to treat others when we were children? The vast majority of the people learned early, haven't ended up in prison, and know the consequences of breaking the law is prison, or capital punishment in some instances. Expecting to learn how to treat people after we've been sentenced seems a bit backwards, doesn't it? Tommy is an adult, married, father of three, shouldn't he already know the rules? As an old mantra goes: If you do the crime, you have to do the time.

Sometimes, we have to take responsibility for ourselves. Imagine that.

Well of course they should just behave properly but the point is they don't. It's all well and good but what happens when these people are released? They will one day end up standing behind us in the grocery store and I'd much rather have someone behind me who has been treated half way decent rather than someone who has been locked away in a cage for 23 hours a day and treated horribly by the people "in charge" of them for years on end. My point is they are going to get out someday.

 

[4Jacy]

Now we know why his legal motion didn't make much sense. His response to my comment at You Tube was a bit more coherent, except the football reference :wink: :

ak: Mr. Werter, why are you not concerned about the rights of a poor innocent child, instead of worrying about the rights of a known liar and drug addict? For shame. You should be the first one pleading for Tommy Croslin to come clean and tell the truth so justice can be served for the CHILD.

werterlaw: This has been one of the most emotionally distressing cases of my 20 year career. But I stand by my oaths, the Bar, law enforcement and military, that everybody is entitled to those rights. Even you. However, the only thing that Tommy is guilty of, is succumbing to his own fears. Monday morning quarterbacking rarely is applicable.

Notice, he made no mention of THE CHILD. Why does he think I'd need his services? Heck, I'd call Jose Baez first! :crazy:

aksleuth, I feel your frustration to this situation, but Werter is a defense attorney. As such, he is upholding his oath, his ethics, the Bar, et al. I used to work for and had many friends that were attorneys. Many of the defense attys. told me they would tell their clients before hand, "don't tell me if you are quilty or innocent." I suppose it was easier on their conscious, to assume their clients were innocent

.
Anyway, we don't know if perhaps Werner did ask Tommy to come clean. In no way does he have to, but let's give him the benefit of a heart. If Werner did ask Tommy to do this, he has no obligation to tell us anything.

Hope that helps.

 

[debs]

The burden of proof is on the State, not on the Defense attorney. Mr Werter's job is to represent Tommy. Suggesting that in so doing, he is somehow shirking his duty to Haleigh leaves one ignoring the point that Mr Werter doesn't represent Haleigh. That does not, however, suppose that Mr Werter doesn't feel for the unanswered question of what happened to her.

 

[lonetraveler]

Alligators do not swarm docks in FL. Unless maybe those alligators are on meth amphetamine. In that county, I wouldn't be surprised.

Well FWIW, close by my home there is a large pond that all my house guests request to go visit in late spring to late fall. The reason for this is that there are many, many alligators there and you can get some really good photos. All you have to do is stand at the shore and clap your hands. Dozens of gators appear and swim right up to the concrete bulkhead. There is also a large sign reminding people that there is a very hefty fine for feeding alligators. Some people throw out left over bait at the boat docks around here and the gators hang around the ramps in order to get a free meal. I wouldn't use the word "swarm" but they definitely come running, errrrrrrr I mean swimming toward you as soon as they hear you. In February you don't see any of them around at all.

 

[dodie20]

Now we know why his legal motion didn't make much sense. His response to my comment at You Tube was a bit more coherent, except the football reference :wink: :

ak: Mr. Werter, why are you not concerned about the rights of a poor innocent child, instead of worrying about the rights of a known liar and drug addict? For shame. You should be the first one pleading for Tommy Croslin to come clean and tell the truth so justice can be served for the CHILD.

werterlaw: This has been one of the most emotionally distressing cases of my 20 year career. But I stand by my oaths, the Bar, law enforcement and military, that everybody is entitled to those rights. Even you. However, the only thing that Tommy is guilty of, is succumbing to his own fears. Monday morning quarterbacking rarely is applicable.

Notice, he made no mention of THE CHILD. Why does he think I'd need his services? Heck, I'd call Jose Baez first! :crazy:

well...I guess he's just doing his job. The problem for me, & I admit it's kind of wishy washy, is that I'm a strong believer in everybody, even the lowest of the low, having a right to representation. That actually makes me feel very secure, with the legal system...but then along comes a case like Haleigh's, or any child, for that matter, & my emotions take over my logic. I just want justice for the real victim, & I'm not too worried about the secondary victims-the victims of the law. I can't help but think if Tommy wasn't involved in this whole mess, he wouldn't be in the position, of having his civil rights violated. so, he has done this to himself. Nobody has ever made me sicker than John Couey, & I wonder how many nightmares his lawyers had. or Melissa Huckaby's lawyers? or the judges? I don't see how these lawyers can stand to have their own lives violated by these monsters, but somebdy has to defend them, to the best of their abilities. & when it's all said & done, I'm thankful for that. because you never know...it could be your mentally ill loved one, or even an innocent person accused of a horrible crime, & then we would want the best representation, out there, for them.

 

[Concerned Papa]

Looks like the legal drama is over.

A hearing to request that investigators not question Hank "Tommy" Croslin Jr. without his attorney present has been cancelled after the Putnam County Sheriff's Office agreed not to do so again.

Werter said he requested the hearing be dropped after investigators agreed not to talk to Croslin without him present.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-07-12/story/croslin-hearing-jail-interrogation-cancelled

 

[badme102]

Oh I think they DO have to comply. At the very least, they need to stop any line of questioning.

No they don't. Not in the context of the conversation we were having. I said if LE wanted to TALK to Tommy (or any one of their prisoners) they can do that at anytime they want. I said 'talk'--not interrogate.

 

[kamky]

:waitasec:

ITA. LE would have to be out of their collective minds to "force" interviews etc. PCSO is certainly being monitored by FDLE and the FBI. I initially thought Werter had some guts. Seems he believed his client all too well and with the poly results, I gotta ask WHY? :banghead: A defense attorney can and will do ANYTHING but what's got me stumped is why per her MS pics, is Lindsy looking far from an agrieved wife? I'd LOVE to know what she knows. ~SNIP~

bbm

There were statements made early on that Haleigh was the favorite cousin and playmate of one of Tommy's sons. If Tommy had any knowledge whatsoever about what happened to his child's dearest friend and he truly cared about his own child, he would have come clean immediately about what he knew. That he chose to remain silent for a long time and then gave multiple lies about what he knew means that he has more regard for himself than his own child. It also implies strongly that he has more serious guilt than he has admitted.

Lindsy, after trying to stick by her man for a long time, may have realized this and just doesn't care about Tommy anymore. It may be she has just cut him loose and is focusing only on the wants and needs of her children and herself. JMO.

 

[kamky]

Most of you probably already know, but Tommy's attorney James Werter has opened a channel at YouTube called "werterlaw". He has had a running dialogue for the past few days seemingly to promote Tommy's claims and postion. I posted a few comments that essentially amounted to "Tommy lied about the alligators and failed his polygraph, why should I believe anything he says?"

This was his reply to me: "You're right as to the temperature but broadening all the circumstances and feeding habits to get a clear view of the situation."

WTH? Is there anyone who can translate this shuck and jive mumbo jumbo into something that I can understand?

I don't know what your comments were, but does it make more sense if Werter had said "You're right as to the temperature but we broadened all the circumstances and feeding habits to get a clear view of the situation." Meaning that they didn't only think about it being on the chilly side, but they took other factors into account which would have substantiated whatever Tommy had claimed...??? (e.g., people habitually fed the alligators there, so they would feed even though alligators normally wouldn't feed at that time of year, etc.) You're right that the way he stated his reply makes no sense.

 

[Zoe Bogart]

Looks like the legal drama is over.

A hearing to request that investigators not question Hank "Tommy" Croslin Jr. without his attorney present has been cancelled after the Putnam County Sheriff's Office agreed not to do so again.

Werter said he requested the hearing be dropped after investigators agreed not to talk to Croslin without him present.

http://jacksonville.com/news/crime/2010-07-12/story/croslin-hearing-jail-interrogation-cancelled

That tells me no ABUSE was going on. It also appears they got a free continuation of his sentencing. I do think Werter and Baez must have studied under the same law professors. Similar strategies. :wink:

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

Looks like the legal drama is over.

And why am I not surprised? :waitasec: This is all bs and enough to make you question your sanity. These freaking games and I want to know what Lindsy, Tommy etc all had to say. Need adviil :banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:

More importantly, why did Hardy call this a homicide? :banghead:

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

bbm

There were statements made early on that Haleigh was the favorite cousin and playmate of one of Tommy's sons. If Tommy had any knowledge whatsoever about what happened to his child's dearest friend and he truly cared about his own child, he would have come clean immediately about what he knew. That he chose to remain silent for a long time and then gave multiple lies about what he knew means that he has more regard for himself than his own child. It also implies strongly that he has more serious guilt than he has admitted.

Lindsy, after trying to stick by her man for a long time, may have realized this and just doesn't care about Tommy anymore. It may be she has just cut him loose and is focusing only on the wants and needs of her children and herself. JMO.

Kamky, ITA. :waitasec: But how does Lindsy go on with or without the truth being known? She has too know something. She's a mother for God's sake. Tommy can complain, Lindsy goes forward and nothing makes sense to me. :sick:

 

[Helplessly Hoping]

No they don't. Not in the context of the conversation we were having. I said if LE wanted to TALK to Tommy (or any one of their prisoners) they can do that at anytime they want. I said 'talk'--not interrogate.

They can talk over Mountain Dew and smokes, right? I think subtle interrogation was going on and yet Werter allowed that trip? Very fine line these folks are walking. JMO