Too many clues

[joeskidbeck]

I think you may be right. I also think JR actually did go to bed that night. Don't know for how long, but whatever happened, it had to have happened before Patsy went to bed.

 

[Agatha_C]

I don't believe Patsy went to bed that night.

 

[DeeDee249]

I don't believe Patsy went to bed that night.

I agree.

 

[my_tee_mouse]

Out of curiosity, Agatha, do you think JR may not have been involved at all till the next morning when PR woke him up with her fantastic rn? That would definately put a new spin on things for me. And would point to a much younger culprit as well. Either that or this whole shebang was Patsy, Patsy, Patsy.

Good observation, Agatha!
And Beck, I know I'm not Agatha, but I want to answer: That's precisely what I think happened. Something went down, she tried to cover and murfed it up, he had to try and fix things as best he could after the fact.

ETA: And I don't think Patsy went to bed that night either.

 

[Peepers]

Out of curiosity, Agatha, do you think JR may not have been involved at all till the next morning when PR woke him up with her fantastic rn? That would definately put a new spin on things for me. And would point to a much younger culprit as well. Either that or this whole shebang was Patsy, Patsy, Patsy.

I kind of lean towards this also..I was just asking Superdave in another thread about this very thing.

 

[Peepers]

I think its possible that to this day john doesn't know it was Patsy (if it was). I think its possible he believes it was an intruder and she never told him anything different.

 

[joeskidbeck]

With John being the kind of man he was, I can't see him going all those years without an explanation from Patsy on why she wrote the rn if he didn't believe she was the killer. He may have know instinctively that she was the killer and never came right out and asked. I guess if one keeps their head in the sand it would be better than knowing the truth, sometimes.

 

[Agatha_C]

I just don't think I can be convinced that he knows little to nothing. IMO, He has always known more then he lets on. JR, didn't just fall off the turnip truck, he drove it there (translated he isn't that stupid).

 

[SunnieRN]

I just don't think I can be convinced that he knows little to nothing. IMO, He has always known more then he lets on. JR, didn't just fall off the turnip truck, he drove it there (translated he isn't that stupid).

I agree Agatha. I truly believe that for a secret of this magnitude to be kept for this long a time, that they both had to be equally involved.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

I also disagree that John was only involved a little bit in JonBenet's murder. He could have testified against Patsy to get a reduced sentence and used his lawyers to reduce his sentence even more for whatever they would charge him with. Then, with Patsy in jail, he could go on with his life. He already had plenty of money, education, high paying job, etc. He didn't need Patsy to continue living a luxury life but Patsy needs John to continue that lifestyle. She wouldn't be able to continue living in multiple million dollar homes with a private plane and a boat; it would just be her, a middle class single mother, with her son.

 

[joeskidbeck]

In the interview with the Hawaiin pastor, John talks about losing his job with Lockheed Martin when they sold to GE. To me, those are very interesting comments about them needing to be rid of him because of the bad press surrounding the case. These are not his exact comments, but if you watched the video that Agatha posted, you know this is what he means. I kinda think it would have looked really bad on GE to let a man go whose daughter was murdered in this fashion by an intruder. One would think that if they supported their employees they would have put a spin on it, one that would make them look really good, and keep John Ramsey. Kinda makes me wonder what was in their minds concerning this tragedy. It also shows that the RST couldn't control everyone in their hemisphere.

 

[eileenhawkeye]

In the interview with the Hawaiin pastor, John talks about losing his job with Lockheed Martin when they sold to GE. To me, those are very interesting comments about them needing to be rid of him because of the bad press surrounding the case. These are not his exact comments, but if you watched the video that Agatha posted, you know this is what he means. I kinda think it would have looked really bad on GE to let a man go whose daughter was murdered in this fashion by an intruder. One would think that if they supported their employees they would have put a spin on it, one that would make them look really good, and keep John Ramsey. Kinda makes me wonder what was in their minds concerning this tragedy. It also shows that the RST couldn't control everyone in their hemisphere.

What does GE stand for? Anyway, I think that if they believed that an intruder was responsible for JonBenet's murder, they would have kept John. It sounds to me that they weren't just worried about bad PR but did not want a child killer in their company, especially not a high ranking position. And what happens if John and Patsy are arrested?

 

[joeskidbeck]

What does GE stand for? Anyway, I think that if they believed that an intruder was responsible for JonBenet's murder, they would have kept John. It sounds to me that they weren't just worried about bad PR but did not want a child killer in their company, especially not a high ranking position. And what happens if John and Patsy are arrested?

GE stands for General Electric, one of, if not the largest corporation in the United States. They own so many companies and brands that it would be hard for me to list them here. You hit on my thoughts exactly. As long as John and Patsy were under that "umbrella", John was not going to be employed by GE. One more reason for them to open up and give LE everything they needed to clear them. But something else was more important than John's job, imo.

 

[otg]

I am always trying to find something new in the RN.
It just hit me.....an intruder,a pedo,a SFF,a profi,etc,etc.....would never leave so many clues about him unless it's about THE MESSAGE which makes no sense in this murder.

Just look how much "they" tell us AND LE about them

-we are a group of individuals that represent a small foreign faction
-we respect your business
-we don't respect the country that it serves
-we monitor you
-there are two gentlemen watching over you
-the two gentlemen don't like you
-we are familiar with law enforcement countermeasures and tactics
-you and your family are under (OUR) constant scrutiny as well as the authorities.
-i am or i am working for another fat cat



Why would a pedo make up all this stuff?
Why would a SFF leave so many clues,unless they want to be caught but then what's the point of it,no money,nothing,just the message delivered and if that was the point why did they stop after JB?


Why did LE never search for a person who matches all these characteristics?The Ramsey team profile didn't include anything the RN mentions,why?

Here you have this RN and so many clues (true OR false) in it but nobody bothers?Weird,both LE and the Ramsey team were SO sure these are all lies?Based on what?And I mean those first days when they had no fibers,no DNA,nothing.

Nevermind,I guess what I actually wanted to point out is no criminal leaves so many clues about himself unless he wants to deliver a message or wants to mislead LE.

Which makes me narrow it down to

RDI and the RN is BS,cheap fantasy.
IDI and all these clues were meant for JR,clues he GOT but never said anything.

Agatha posted some links to the last public “interview” with the Ramseys before Patsy’s death ([ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=5901449&postcount=50"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - Media Links Only[/ame]).

I don’t know, maybe it’s just me; but does it kind of strike a chord (or should that be “cord&#8221 with anyone else that in this “interview” at about the 8:02 mark, JR brings up John Douglas (JR’s words: “...a very brilliant man, and he spent a lot of time looking at it.&#8221. Anyway, JR says about Douglas’ “best assessment” (anger or jealousy) that he (JR) “couldn’t imagine anyone being angry with him, and certainly that angry”. Then JR’s exact words are, “...but I respect his, uh... his judgment.”

​

I just kind of got goose bumps when I heard him say it.
.

 

[SunnieRN]

Not only that, but think of how often they referred to JonBenet as 'that child', 'the child'. I don't care if it has been 1, 10 or 15 years, Jon Benet is their child. There was no true grief expressed. How could someone have done this to our baby, liittle girl, sweet JonBenet. It was all about them and what they had gone through since JonBenet was killed.

I have seen families that refer to their children as 'that child.' It makes my skin crawl! Why the need for such distancing from a little girl?

 

[Steely]

Hi MurriFlower. I think the ransom note was written for the soul purpose of getting the police to think it was a kidnapping, period. If the Ramsey's were involved in JB's death (I think they are) it was wise of them not to move the body out of the house as you risk being seen by neighbors, by surveillance cameras at stores along the route you took, dna left in your vehicle, being seen dumping the body, returning home. Stuffing a size 6 girl's panty, a roll of tape, some rope into something and carrying it out of the house is a lot easier than getting a child out without being seen. They had to keep a certain timeline because they had a pilot waiting on them and more importantly their other kids meeting them at an airport en route to Michigan. Writing the ransom note turned out to be a good move for them, sent the cops in the wrong direction from the get go, friends, John, police running amok all over the house and yard ruining evidence left and right. I think they got the exact results they wanted with the ransom note.

Removing JB's body from the home would have "denied her remains for a proper burial."

 

[joeskidbeck]

Patsy would not have let that body leave that house under any circumstances. If John wasn't aware of what happened until too late to do anything, this could have been one of the reasons Patsy kept him in the dark. She may have thought that he would have wanted to go "dump" the body and she never would have stood for that. Also, you really can't hold someone to the demands in a rn that they wrote themselves. They were not worried about being "denied her remains". They knew exactly where they were. Now, if you are a serious IDI, don't you wonder why they ignored every threat in the rn? Not one or two, every single threat. There is no logical explanation for that.

 

[joeskidbeck]

Here's a little interesting tidbit I came across this evening. I'm sure everyone has read this, but I think it bears repeating since we are discussing clues in the ransom note. It's not exactly a clue in the note, more one about the note. We all know that Det. Arndt was there with the Ramseys when 10:00 rolled around that morning and since, at that time, they were still considering JonBenet to have been kidnapped, does anyone not think it's suspect that the Ramseys weren't even upset that the phone call never came? Here are Det. Arndt's words concerning said phone call:

The police detective who was in the home of JonBenét Ramsey when the girl's body was found says her parents didn't react when the alleged kidnappers failed to call as promised in a ransom note. snipped from link

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/13crams.html

This should speak volumes if one really leans toward IDI. John had supposedly gotten the ransom money arranged and then neither he nor Patsy showed any emotion when the call didn't come? I would have been beside myself with worry at that point (any parent would have been). In my opinion this is just one more reason to believe the Ramseys already knew exactly where JB was and knew there would be no phone call from the kidnappers.

 

[Steely]

Patsy would not have let that body leave that house under any circumstances. If John wasn't aware of what happened until too late to do anything, this could have been one of the reasons Patsy kept him in the dark. She may have thought that he would have wanted to go "dump" the body and she never would have stood for that. Also, you really can't hold someone to the demands in a rn that they wrote themselves. They were not worried about being "denied her remains". They knew exactly where they were. Now, if you are a serious IDI, don't you wonder why they ignored every threat in the rn? Not one or two, every single threat. There is no logical explanation for that.

Were you responding to my post above? If so...that was my point exactly and why I linked "dumping the body" with the quote from the ransom note about "proper burial." I was suggesting the reason for the ransom note might have been the only way they could figure out how they could keep her body for a proper burial...(hence, it was on the ransom note writer's mind) and it might have been a reason JR went along with it. He had buried one daughter already...he probably would have been the one to do the dumping. Especially if he didn't do the killing...could he do that? Would he do that to protect PR? Would he do that to protect BR? What if there was another way? I'm not a serious IDI. I'm a fence sitter leaning toward RDI. I think PR probably wrote the note and I doubt JR knew it was so LOOOOONG. I think he found out about how long it was after it was too late to write another one.

But honestly, I don't totally rule out IDI...especially after watching the video of their house on you tube. What a terrible house plan for a family of small children.

 

[Steely]

Here's a little interesting tidbit I came across this evening. I'm sure everyone has read this, but I think it bears repeating since we are discussing clues in the ransom note. It's not exactly a clue in the note, more one about the note. We all know that Det. Arndt was there with the Ramseys when 10:00 rolled around that morning and since, at that time, they were still considering JonBenet to have been kidnapped, does anyone not think it's suspect that the Ramseys weren't even upset that the phone call never came? Here are Det. Arndt's words concerning said phone call:

The police detective who was in the home of JonBenét Ramsey when the girl's body was found says her parents didn't react when the alleged kidnappers failed to call as promised in a ransom note. snipped from link

http://web.dailycamera.com/extra/ramsey/1999/13crams.html

This should speak volumes if one really leans toward IDI. John had supposedly gotten the ransom money arranged and then neither he nor Patsy showed any emotion when the call didn't come? I would have been beside myself with worry at that point (any parent would have been). In my opinion this is just one more reason to believe the Ramseys already knew exactly where JB was and knew there would be no phone call from the kidnappers.

I thought that too. But on the video of Patsy's last interview, JR says they weren't sure if that was for that day or the next because it said "tomorrow." You would think though if that was the case...they'd have been fretting and pulling there hair out and when the time was past saying "that foreign faction must mean tomorrow..." But they didn't do that, did they?