Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

[manzana]

But I am content to agree on our different takes on that. I realize that by calling a spade a spade it appears aggegious to the deceased and I am not trying to trash a good man. I was more interested in letting other women out there know what NOT to accept as "acceptable" in a relationship, according to the professionals.

I so disagree, why does using even have to come into the equation for either side

Why can it not be two people simply enjoying sex y nada mas.

 

[Stolat]

ITA! Darryl confirmed that a bit for us in his cross. Ryan also did the same. Jodi seemed to have no difficulty doing her bump and grind on him on her way home from killing Travis. She has the guts and skill, and she uses it to her advantage. Notice with Ryan, it was HIS respect for her that made him stop her from doing something he THOUGHT she would regret, due to her, ahem, religious beliefs. Remember, Ryan was on his way out of the Mormon church at the time. IIRC, he mentioned on JVM or NG that he is now a Christian.

Good point CarolinaMoon. It was Ryan's respect for Jodi that kept his Swiss army knife in his pocket. What do you think of Travis's respect level then?

Understood that none of this makes a bit of difference in trial.

That's my whole point essentially. It doesn't matter if he *was* or *was not* a womanizer. None of it matters. Has no bearing on whether or not someone would justify death

 

[Hope4More]

I've only watched two televised trials in my life-- Casey Anthony's and this one. Since I never want to be blindsided again by a jury's verdict, I've done my best to experience this trial largely from a juror's point of view.

If I were a juror, what I'd be wondering right now is why on earth I am being subjected to so much talk of raunchy sex, and plainly speaking, to so many irrelevant and piddly tales of adolescent realtionships.

If I'm a woman, does the defense really want me to free Jodi because the victim cheated on her, didn't throw her naked body out of his bed when she crept there without being invited? Because he … whoa, getting serious now…called her names? Am I supposed to rally to her side out of righteous indignation, based on my gender, because the slaughtered very young male in this case seems to have occasionally acted--worst possible scenario-- like a cad?

And if I am a man? Wow. I'm feeling like I'm on trial here too. Seemingly it will be my fault if a woman I sleep with decides to kill me because I like sex more than I like her. I'm thinking about emails or phone calls I've received calling me a jerk because I didn’t listen well enough or respect her feelings enough. I see my wife my girlfriend standing in front of me accusing me of the same offenses. I'm positive I don' think I deserve death for these sins- every last male I've ever spoken to has heard the same list of complaints, repeatedly.

I'm waiting to be told how it is that Jodi is a victim, and why it is that her alleged
victimization should matter more than what she irrefutably did do to Travis. I'm from conservative Arizona, and I believe in personal responsibility. Far as I can see, Jodi at the very least was a willing sexual partner. I'm wondering at times if she wasn't in fact the sexual aggressor. Travis was clearly looking for a virgin to be committed to, and he obviously didn't like himself for having sex with Jodi.

She joined a church knowing that premarital sex was off limits, and yet was engaging in it the whole while and she knew how central the church was to Travis. Seems to me that if she had any consideration much less love for Travis, she would never have agreed to have sex, much less to have initiated it. If she had any self-respect or true newly found religious conviction she would have refused sex as well.


I'm getting more P'O'd by the day that these are the things the defense is asking me to analyze, while the facts of the Travis' death go unaddressed.

I'm not sure if Jodi stole the gun from her grandparents. The prosecutor did not prove that to me beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm also not sure that the gas cans Jodi picked up from her ex-boyfriend were meant to hide her time spent in AZ. I think that is likely, but I'm not going to convict her of 1st degree murder based on that.

I've resolved that for myself there is one and only question that the defense had better answer for me if they don't want me to convict their client, and that is this:

You say that Jodi killed Travis in self-defense, AFTER he attacked her in the shower- verbally, since there wasn't a single mark on her afterwards, other than perhaps on a few fingers (and even THAT I don’t know, since Burns never actually saw any wounds).

If it was self-defense, how did Jodi have the time to go run and get both a gun and a knife-whomever they belonged to? Why did she get both? Am I to believe that Travis kept a gun and a knife in his bathroom? How is that Jodi managed to fend off Travis to reach a knife and gun-even, completedly implausibly those laying about near the bathroom sink, when Travis- was so much taller and stronger than Jodi, and in your version, mad enough with rage enough to want to kill her? And yet he leaves no mark on her while his own hands are sliced to the bone?


Really?


I think the defense better pray that we the jury don’t find her guilty of first degree murder. If we do, I am going to punish her as well for putting Travis's loved ones through the hell of having his name smeared nationally, and for playing the victim again while doing her utmost to hurt Travis one last time.


Just my opinion.

 

[shantastic]

Do you know how to screen capture those fragments?

Unfortunately, I am technically challenged. It's right when Juan starts asking about the phone call about gas cans. JA is shown both close up and you can continue to see her in the background when the camera is on Juan.

 

[Wishbone]

Stolat I too think Jodi had ulterior motives for taping the sex call and taking nudie photos. I too think she may have thought about somehow holding this stuff over Travis so that he would, what, marry her? I have no idea.

But I don't agree with what I said being used as the definition of being used for sex.

IMO Travis was upfront with Jodi about their relationship. At the end it was strictly physical and even that was weighing on his conscience. IMO Travis was not using Jodi for sex. There was no lying or misleading on his part.

On the flip side I don't think Jodi used Travis for sex. I think Jodi used sex to try to get Travis. She wanted the house, fancy cars, nice lifestyle. IMO Jodi didn't want to settle for a sex only relationship. Remember how easily she switched off the sex with her live in boyfriend once she sniffed Travis and started getting religious?

Yep, IMO she wanted the whole Enchilada

 

[Camdenres]

So I turn on IS this morning and there the "experts" are, including VP discussing "The" picture and Travis' sexiual deviance.....Thank God, I have not been in a relationship with any of these people the last 30 years...I must be a downright ho!

 

[CarolinaMoon]

Amish is much, much funnier.

Wish I could make an intentional joke! I'm infamous for the unintentional ones in this trial thread.

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

In saying TA used Jodi for sex, I'm *not* saying Jodi didn't also use TA as well. That's my point the relationship based solely on sex is unhealthy because in the end someone is bound to get hurt. I think it is being misconstrued that making TA out to look like he's the only one to blame for this unhealthy relationship and I'm not. But no mistaking it takes TWO to create an unhealthy relationship. So Travis made it clear that he didn't want to date her and he didn't want his friends to know he was even spending time with her. But he was having sex with her. Um....so what WAS her purpose for being there then (under cover I might add) other than for sex??? It's called being used for sex and Jodi used him for sex AND domination and control issues as well.

But I am content to agree on our different takes on that. I realize that by calling a spade a spade it appears aggegious to the deceased and I am not trying to trash a good man. I was more interested in letting other women out there know what NOT to accept as "acceptable" in a relationship, according to the professionals.

When a person feels 'used' it implies hurt feelings. The person is vested and got his/her feelings hurt. If both adults engage in sex understanding that it is only sex that they share never should have any feelings invested in the act. When someone visits a prostitute he/she wants sex. I don't think either one believes next time (if there is one) the person will bring flowers too.

If Jodi felt 'used' then it was because of her unwillingness to face the truth about their relationship. It is no one else's fault if Jodi held on to some hope only she could see.

A person is 'used' when they are duped. They are lied to and lead down a primrose path that isn't real. Travis is not guilty of that. IMO

 

[Stolat]

I so disagree, why does using even have to come into the equation for either side

Why can it not be two people simply enjoying sex y nada mas.

I think we're getting way off course. Two people having open sex and being open about it is one thing. When one of those people purposefully hides any evidence of that other person even existing anymore then I think you're talking about something else. If any of my girlfriends found themselves in that situation I would say Run! Run faster, you deserve better - I wouldnt say You Go Girl, whatever floats your boat. But that's just me.

 

[PASA]

Good morning everyone I am so far behind in reading, but I have been watching the trial on IS, ( been stuck in bed with this flu bug) does anyone know who JA keeps staring at in the court room? I could swear I saw her do a very slight nod after staring (again) at someone. Thanks! I can't wait to get back here to my computer to read what you all have to say, sure wish I had a lap top :/ I think JA has more ex-boyfriends than FCA.

Hope you're feeling better.

 

[KMouse]

Stolat I too think Jodi had ulterior motives for taping the sex call and taking nudie photos. I too think she may have thought about somehow holding this stuff over Travis so that he would, what, marry her? I have no idea.

But I don't agree with what I said being used as the definition of being used for sex.

IMO Travis was upfront with Jodi about their relationship. At the end it was strictly physical and even that was weighing on his conscience. IMO Travis was not using Jodi for sex. There was no lying or misleading on his part.

On the flip side I don't think Jodi used Travis for sex. I think Jodi used sex to try to get Travis. She wanted the house, fancy cars, nice lifestyle. IMO Jodi didn't want to settle for a sex only relationship. Remember how easily she switched off the sex with her live in boyfriend once she sniffed Travis and started getting religious?

I couldn't agree more.

I've thought about the supposed sex tape too. I think she had reached a high level of desperation. She left a boyfriend whom she had no more use for since the bank account had dried up. She met a new world of men in PPL and thought she hit the jackpot with Travis being an executive director. She converted to Mormonism and morphed herself into his world. Where were her friends and family? Nowhere.

She continued to morph herself into the "good Mormon" on the outside so that she fit in with Travis' friends such as the Freemans. Even after Travis and Jodi broke up the "final time" she went sniveling to the Freeman's.

When using sex to get into Travis' bed again no longer worked she concocted her plan. Maybe that plan at first was to use the sex tape and photos to blackmail Travis into going back to her. We will never know. What we do know is that the plan became to act out anger and possibly revenge on a man who did nothing more than sleep with the devil.

 

[jevipo74]

I couldn't agree more.

I've thought about the supposed sex tape too. I think she had reached a high level of desperation. She left a boyfriend whom she had no more use for since the bank account had dried up. She met a new world of men in PPL and thought she hit the jackpot with Travis being an executive director. She converted to Mormonism and morphed herself into his world. Where were her friends and family? Nowhere.

She continued to morph herself into the "good Mormon" on the outside so that she fit in with Travis' friends such as the Freemans. Even after Travis and Jodi broke up the "final time" she went sniveling to the Freeman's.

When using sex to get into Travis' bed again no longer worked she concocted her plan. Maybe that plan at first was to use the sex tape and photos to blackmail Travis into going back to her. We will never know. What we do know is that the plan became to act out anger and possibly revenge on a man who did nothing more than sleep with the devil.

Well said! Except for a few of his friends, most of them didn't like her. They had her number from the get-go.

 

[shantastic]

Do you know how to screen capture those fragments?

Hopefully this works... Start it right at 45:00

Jodi Arias Trial - Day 10 - Part 2 - YouTube

 

[Lilly12]

In saying TA used Jodi for sex, I'm *not* saying Jodi didn't also use TA as well. That's my point the relationship based solely on sex is unhealthy because in the end someone is bound to get hurt. I think it is being misconstrued that making TA out to look like he's the only one to blame for this unhealthy relationship and I'm not. But no mistaking it takes TWO to create an unhealthy relationship. So Travis made it clear that he didn't want to date her and he didn't want his friends to know he was even spending time with her. But he was having sex with her. Um....so what WAS her purpose for being there then (under cover I might add) other than for sex??? It's called being used for sex and Jodi used him for sex AND domination and control issues as well.

But I am content to agree on our different takes on that. I realize that by calling a spade a spade it appears aggegious to the deceased and I am not trying to trash a good man. I was more interested in letting other women out there know what NOT to accept as "acceptable" in a relationship, according to the professionals.

Maybe he was good in bed, woman have their needs too. Just saying. moo

 

[CUCKOOHEAD]

Yep, IMO she wanted the whole Enchilada

Yup! And wanna bet that if she had snared him into marrying her that once that ring was on her finger the kink would vanish from kinky? Just like the live in witnessed, the tap was turned off when she had her sights on new prey and she was busy adapting to her new role. He was history only she didn't tell him. Instead she used the time left to quit paying the bills and getting the for the new target.

 

[Stolat]

Hey everyone ! -

Sorry to create such a stir over the sex thing. I think I'm skewing out of context.

All I was doing originally was quoting an ABC article - I didn't come up with it, ABC did:

"The prosecution rested its case on Jan. 17. Defense attorneys are now trying to portray Alexander as a contradiction who lied to friends and family, cheated on girlfriends and used women for sex."

http://abclocal.go.com/wls/story?section=news/national_world&id=8975166

My Entire point was this- SO What?? So what if *any* of that was true????? It doesn't make a hill of beans and it doesn't justify murder and the defense is slimy in trying to use that.

Sorry for the brewha. I think the message was getting lost in re-posts.

 

[MsCharlieChan]

I think JA was more driven by money; sex was just a tool and well-honed skill to get the lifestyle she lusted for.

She dropped her ex, Darryl, like a hot potato when there wasn't enough money around anymore. Seems like she calculated and did everything she could to climb the social ladder within the PPL organization, where money floated freely. She did "whatever" in the car with one of those guys, the one who knew her for two hours and said he wanted to leave his wife for JA.

She even converted to Mormonism in a flash, hoping to position herself as wife material for the many well-off guys withing PPL...IMO, these things were more about instant status-seeking, and trying to land a man who could give her the high-life for free.

Another thing I wonder... Did dabbling with this new religion drive her crazy? I can see how a strict, new religion might do this -- particularly if you discover you've been living horribly, in sin. Really, all that "whoredom" ranting she anonymously emailed to Lisa described Jodi herself.

I'm not offering religion as an excuse for what JA did, but seeking a possible explanation for her crack-up.

 

[txbluesman]

Im confused. So Jodi's hard drive was damaged too?

Did they ever say yesterday which computer the photos were sent to?

tia

Now that is interesting. I hadn't seen that article.

What they're saying in the article is Jodi's "computer hard drive", which was "damaged", without giving more context. This computer hard drive could be from a home desktop, a laptop or be an external portable hard drive. Without saying where it came from, we don't know squat about it.

Regarding yesterday's testimony, as far as "sent", I don't know if that was ever mentioned. If it was, I missed that part. All I got was that these last two photos were found on this hard drive, which had been damaged.

Now, was it Jodi's hard drive he was talking about? Another hard drive?

I'm as lost as anyone here. The information is too sketchy. The defense witness went into frustrating details about things such as Mozilla being a version of Firefox (which it is not) and other goofy stuff that didn't add anything. Then he didn't give us the real stuff that would put all of this hard drive information in a format that we can use. To me, he was fluff, no content.

I'm figuring Juan will bring it together for us while making this expert look like a doofus.

MOO y'all.

 

[luv]

Jodi Arias Trial - Jodi's Defense Is Falling Apart - Legal Analysis -Livestream Link - YouTube

 

[ILikeToBendPages]

Thank you, Katiecoolady. Thanks for bearing witness for Travis's sister. That IS support, even if she never knows.

I am somewhat "new" to following cases. As in, new since Casey Anthony. That case caught my attention because I was so appalled at the 30 days thing-- and more appalled as time when on. It's something I somewhat conceal from friends, but my close family all knows (and some think I'm nuts). They give me some space on the issues of following these cases, and I appreciate that. I seldom discuss any of the cases I follow outside of these forums. I have a family member that was murdered in 1995-- at the time, I was a military officer deployed to the middle east. Before that, murders were just something that happened on the news for me. The murderer committed suicide 2 days later, so our family was "spared" a trial.

In cases such as Travis', I just wish there were some way to convey to the family that not everyone delights in the courtroom, re-victimization of the deceased. I really hope that they know that Travis is valued and held close-- despite the efforts to defile him, or embarass his memory, etc. So what if he liked adventurous sex, or looked at wild pics, or had fantasies-- I could care less. He was a wonderful, kind and caring, handsome, healthy young man, by nearly every description. He was a contributing, law abiding member of society. He was loved by many, and had lots of genuine friends. The violent deaths of victims like Travis affect us all.There is so little any of us can *really* do, except bear witness to the person that they were, their memory, and the truth of the horrible way they died. That is something valuable, I think.

It seems so little, but I'd like to thank you, Katiecoolady, for sharing with Travis's family that we (here at WS) simply stand with them to bear witness. Bearing witness doesn't always seem enough to help someone bear that pain, but it is something genuine. Even from strangers. And I sincerely hope that this can be a small sliver of comfort for them.

Every time I learn about another horrific case, I wonder if it really matters, if it is enough to simply "bear witness." And every time I decide that it must be, even if it doesn't seem to be enough at a given moment in time. It's a quiet solidarity, but solidarity nonetheless.

So, we're your dirty little secret?