Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

[Karmady]

This may have been answered already (not sure bc I'm only 1/2 way through today's thread) but there are a ton of apps out there to download on your cell phone. Texas doesn't require disclosure as long as the one recording is participating. The other person has no clue the conversation is recording. Scary thought, right!?!

Imo, it's only scary if you're worried about what you're saying on the phone. I'm not worried about any recording of my phone conversations. If I want it totally private, it's face to face. Even then, if the person you're talking to isn't "trustworthy," you're all out there. The best solution is, imo, to be the best person you can be all the time in all dealings. No worries...and if someone catches you being an ahole, who's fault is that?

 

[Zuri]

In my experience, diagnoses are made through symptomology and observation and gut instinct. JA has demonstrated through her many interviews and statements her total lack of conscience. Lack of remorse is key as her behavior seems to indicate justification for killing TA. Evil? Yes. Dangerous? Yes. Sociopathic tendencies? Absolutely. Is all of this speculative? Sure. I think we are just trying to figure out what kind of person would commit this kind of savage, heinous murder and wrap our heads around it.

 

[Pensfan]

As I've asserted before, there's a mental illness in particular that tends to stay dormant in some individuals up until enough of a stressor kicks in. We have some here who have experience with this disorder, and even attested to this.

I had completely not considered it before today because I had never seen her in an interview like the 48 Hours one that was linked. All I had to go on was what was reported in the media and on here and could be seen in the trial.

The biggest thing everyone can agree on is a blunted emotional affect. She seems pretty unemotional most of the time. Her speech is usually unemphatic, and her tone never really changes. She also whispers or talks in a low tone a lot of the time; at least in the interviews I've seen.

When she's asked a question, she goes into long explanations. She doesn't really leave out emotional details, as someone suspected of sociopathy might. Instead, she goes into way too much detail. She diverts onto irrelevant points and finally comes back around to the original question and answers it. This is referred to as a thought disorder - circumstantial speech.

There are indicators of improper emotional responses. She was seen "smiling, almost laughing at [Travis's] memorial service". She laughed at points in the 48 hours interview. She would lay her head down in the middle of police interviews. She would stretch and conduct herself bizarrely. She draws in the middle of her court case. She sometimes puts her head down on the table there, too.

There is definitely a history of persecutory beliefs and there is evidence of delusion. Arias went so far as to spy on Travis and allegedly hacked into his Facebook and e-mails because she was afraid he was going to hurt her (emotionally, with a new girl). She had to check up on him. She would listen to his voicemail and read his text messages. As far as delusions go, she snuck into his house multiple times. She obsessed over him. She called him how many times in that subpoenaed period, while he called her twice? She has come up with different stories about threats against her life and being afraid for her family. She retold a story about "ninja assassins". She told a story about receiving a letter in prison saying someone was going to kill her.

There also appeared to be a mild avolition occurring. She bounced from job to job, didn't meet financial obligations, really didn't show any desire to succeed. She was apparently doing poorly enough at PPL that she had Gus helping her.

There was also a study recently done on eye movement. Individuals that are affected by this disorder tend to make erratic motions with their eyes. They can't gaze at the same place for too long, they aren't capable of what's called "smooth pursuit", which is having the eye smoothly follow an object. They have what pretty much amounts to improper saccadic eye movement. If you watch the 48 Hours Interview, a lot of the times her eyes are darting around and not really focusing on anything in particular. It's very clear in the video nurse posted - look at the interviewer as your "control" subject. This is what caught my attention at first. Granted, this is far from scientific and not in a controlled setting necessary to perform such a test but it's there in this capacity.

These are all pretty straightforward and classic symptoms of schizophrenia. In fact, schizophrenics tend to vastly overkill their victims. If you take a look at some of the stabbings carried out by known schizophrenics, there are quite a few eerie similarities to this murder.

Perhaps she's faking it all and was hoping to get a mental insanity ruling. It's a possibility. But from what I've seen so far, it all fits.

:twocents: :moo:

Persecutory thoughts are when the patient feels like someone is after THEM, not they are stalking someone else.

What is the evidence of delusion?

She can't have blunted emotional affect when you just described her as laughing inappropriately at Travis' funeral.

Circumstantial speech is not Jodi's poor lying abilities. Circumstantial speech occurs in patients with lower IQs and cognitive problems. Jodi doesn't have this.

The first symptom of avolition in a schizophrenic patient is poor hygiene and lack of interest in their appearance. Jodi didn't have any symptoms of schizophrenia. She had no real career goals except to marry a rich husband and work as an artist.

Please start posting some links.

Pensfan
verified psychiatric mental health nurse

 

[Linda7NJ]

Imo, it's only scary if you're worried about what you're saying on the phone. I'm not worried about any recording of my phone conversations. If I want it totally private, it's face to face. Even then, if the person you're talking to isn't "trustworthy," you're all out there. The best solution is, imo, to be the best person you can be all the time in all dealings. No worries...and if someone catches you being an ahole, who's fault is that?

Growing up ...my best friends parents had a party line...on rainy days we would listen to other people's conversations for hours! Gossip gossip gossip! It was great!

 

[Sleuth13]

Didn't realize JA had a photo album on her myspace with photos of many places they visited.

TA only left her one myspace comment and it was early on. If you look at his page she posted plenty of stupid things and normally right after a female left a comment. Soooooooooo desperate...

 

[Linda7NJ]

I don't doubt it! I was kinda surprised she didn't cut him up and take a piece with her!! I recently saw some show on the ID channel where this chic actually deep fried some of her bf's body parts after murdering him and ate them for dinner!!!

Just curious, which piece did she take?

 

[bobloblaw]

Imo, it's only scary if you're worried about what you're saying on the phone. I'm not worried about any recording of my phone conversations. If I want it totally private, it's face to face. Even then, if the person you're talking to isn't "trustworthy," you're all out there. The best solution is, imo, to be the best person you can be all the time in all dealings. No worries...and if someone catches you being an ahole, who's fault is that?

Of course if you have "nothing to hide" we all believe were fine, but if someone manipulates your words and situation, its a bit different eh?

 

[borndem]

IMO the theory raised that a culmination of stressors may have pushed JA over the edge is a good one, especially when there is an underlying psych disorder. I have read the many posts on speculation of diagnoses. From watching the interviews JA gave as well as the police interviews, JA fits the diagnosis of sociopath. She was able to "follow the rules" when they fit her life. She appeared "normal" to those who knew her in her jobs as a waitress and in PPL. And to TA initially. When she realized that changing her religion, location, looks and that sex was not enough to keep TA, she killed him. No remorse. No guilt. The premeditation of her act rules out psychotic break. It is kinda like when neighbors are interviewed after the person next door kills someone and they say the guy was nice, quiet and kept to himself. That person was able to live amongst them never giving anyone a clue as to who he really was. Hannibal Lecter is a perfect example of a sociopath. As is JA.

Welcome to WebSleuths, Zuri !!

We're glad to have you here!

Great first post! Keep 'em coming!!
​

 

[minor4th]

MooCow:

I believe they did a MMPI test which would have shown an Axis I (Schizophrenia) diagnosis and from what I gather, there was no mental illness found to prove she was insane or incompetent to stand trial.

Do we know anymore about the tests given to JA to determine sanity pre-trial?

I'm sure her attorney's would have loved to have found the avenue of "murder by reason of insanity" to get JA off the DP.

I don't think they did MMPI, not that I have seen.

She was not tested for insanity or competence to stand trial (unless I missed something), and there was never an insanity justification or allegation that she lacked competence to stand trial. Her cognitive functioning was tested to make sure she was eligible for death penalty.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I think what Pensfan is trying to say is that JA's Axis I disorder hasn't "showed up"........:floorlaugh:

(hope you don't mind me paraphrasing, Pensfan!)

 

[Curious Me]

I actually saw something about that eye movement study and Schizophrenia - amazed I get around as much as I do from my armchair. I think her eye movements are more of the evasive, lying type of eye movements. I can't see her as schizophrenic, but I can see her faking it.

Thank You for posting what you are basing your opinions on.

 

[ATasteOfHoney]

I don't think they did MMPI, not that I have seen.

She was not tested for insanity or competence to stand trial (unless I missed something), and there was never an insanity justification or allegation that she lacked competence to stand trial. Her cognitive functioning was tested to make sure she was eligible for death penalty.

Wonder what the name of that test is that is used to test cognitive functioning?

 

[GetSmart]

On HLN now I can not believe I missed where Jodi walked in Lisa Andrews Diadoni home when Travis was there.. Did I hear that correct?

 

[borndem]

I was not able to, I had to click the title in title bar and open in new page but was able to view there.

That's what I did, too, manzana. Just clicking on the usual triangular start-up button would not queue it up.

bbm

 

[TorisMom003]

I agree... few questions;

Could those 2min calls be messages and she did not actually speak to Travis?
Were there any other calls in the wee hours of 6/4? Or did Jodi just show up unannounced as she so often did?
Also, am curious when she dyed her hair.. was that mentioned anywhere?
reason is, I wondered if Lisa was a brunette in 2007-2008.. meaning IMO not sure I believe her hair was changed for the cover up afterwards, think she may have dyed it since Travis dated brunettes after Jodi..??

The next phone call to Travis, in the listed calls that were testified to, was 6/4/08 at 11:37 pm. This is around 6 hours after she killed him. There are no calls listed from Travis to Jodi on 6/3/08. Only two calls were listed for 6/2/08 from Travis to Jodi.

6/2/08 3:04 am 1011 seconds/= 16.85 minutes
6/2/08 3:21 am 2450 seconds/= 40.83 minutes

 

[m00c0w]

Persecutory thoughts are when the patient feels like someone is after THEM, not they are after someone else.

Yes, she felt like Travis was going to hurt her. This is why she constantly spied on him and behaved abnormally in that regard.

What is the evidence of delusion?

Stories about ninja assassins and death threat letters and clearly and continually obsessing over a man that obviously doesn't want you doesn't count as delusional?

She can't have blunted emotional affect when you just described her as laughing inappropriately at Travis' funeral.

It is possible for schizophrenics to have a blunted affect 95% of the time and still express inappropriate emotions like that occasionally.

Circumstantial speech is not Jodi's poor lying abilities. Circumstantial speech occurs in patients with lower IQs and cognitive problems. Jodi doesn't have this.

In your opinion. Nearly every interview she's given has evidenced this with her winding stories; even those that aren't relevant to lies.

The first symptom of avolition in a schizophrenic patient is poor hygiene and lack of interest in their appearance. Jodi didn't have any symptoms of schizophrenia. She had no real career goals except to marry a rich husband and work as an artist.

I said that she might have displayed mild avolition. Curious question - do all mental health disorders start out the same, symptomatically? Or is each individual case different? Might there be outliers? I've honestly never heard someone say that "No, x starts out this way." in this field.

Please start posting some links.

I indicated this was my opinion, and as others have demonstrated, that's all I have to do.

All :moo:

 

[m00c0w]

MooCow:

I believe they did a MMPI test which would have shown an Axis I (Schizophrenia) diagnosis and from what I gather, there was no mental illness found to prove she was insane or incompetent to stand trial.

Do we know anymore about the tests given to JA to determine sanity pre-trial?

I'm sure her attorney's would have loved to have found the avenue of "murder by reason of insanity" to get JA off the DP.

Yeah, that's why I asked a few pages ago. If they did, that would be that.

 

[Sleuth13]

She keeps "almost" tripping up. I am transcribing this video as they talk...if you watch, around the 1:44 area they start this section. She has told the reporter she is threatened by the two people that killed TA. (so she was still on Plan A) B & C had not been invented yet...and she probably still thinks the camera burned in the desert...I see Freudian all over this...

Jodi Arias on threats received in Calif. jail - 48 Hours - CBS News

(Reporter)
didn't you think it might be important to show the cops and the detectives that in fact I am still being threatened by these two people that allegedly committed this crime? (Killing TA)

(JA)
Yes, yes. And I absolutely regret that these notes came within days of my arrest, and I think still that I was just very scared for my family. And its only not that I am speaking out about this because I just need to have faith that the Lord is not going to put them in harms way because I decided to do..........obviously a little late because I decided to...do the right thing and tell what I knew, because, by.. the reason i'm sitting here is because I didn't do the right thing, I didn't go to the police right away, I didn't go to a neighbors house

:jail:

UNNNNNNNNNNNNfriggin believable!!!!!!!

 

[kkdj]

i never get tired of hearing that story my friend has dedicated his life to his schizophrenic son and it had been such a tough go - he has good times then very bad times - but even in the "good" times its still not that good - he brings him to visit me at work (sons around 35) i am one of the few ppl he will talk to - i'm convinced its cuz i am that kid of an engineer and can follow his (what others think is convoluted) train of logic - it makes sense to me and he is soo intelligent - i've told him your story, and he has been having good luck w/ new meds - keeping our fingers crossed - he is lucky to already have the love like your brother does

I have a schizophrenic cousin. Diagnosed in his teens, is now in his 50's. He's had a rough go at times, but is doing pretty good now. The meds are working. He too has been enveloped with lots of love. My hubby used to visit him in psychiatric hospitals. My cousin has always cherished that. He himself is so loving. But without his meds he is very paranoid and violent.

 

[manzana]

The next phone call to Travis, in the listed calls that were testified to, was 6/4/08 at 11:37 pm. This is around 6 hours after she killed him. There are no calls listed from Travis to Jodi on 6/3/08. Only two calls were listed for 6/2/08 from Travis to Jodi.

6/2/08 3:04 am 1011 seconds/= 16.85 minutes
6/2/08 3:21 am 2450 seconds/= 40.83 minutes

Well if these two calls lasted just shy of one hour and were placed to Jodi....I think it is safe to say they were not break-up calls.