Trial break: The State vs Jodi Arias; trial resumes 4 February 2013

[panthera]

My ex used to be so verbally abusive I used to do that also just to cry..

:hug: :hug:

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Have you guys the sitting shower pic how it looks like there is something black under his bottom? What is that??

I first thought it was a pool of blood. Turns out it's the drain.

 

[lonetraveler]

Your definition of evil is not legally criminal. There are plenty of people like this who commit no crimes.

You know who never actually murdered anyone, loved his pets, was a vegetarian, never smoked or drank? Hitler.

Really? Hitler? He is responsible for millions of murders. Do you really want to use him as an example?

 

[TorisMom003]

I found a pic of Travis's shower after he was removed. There is still blood in the shower so some may view this as graphic. This photo shows just how small his shower actually was.

I am spacing the photo down further so the ones who want to can pass over it after seeing my warning.

Photo credit to my death space

 

[JusticeJunkie]

Have you guys the sitting shower pic how it looks like there is something black under his bottom? What is that??

Since you brought up the photos, have any of you come up with a plausible description of the very last one? I still can't make it make sense.

 

[LambChop]

But there are warning signs. Casey displayed those signs before she killed Caylee. Jodi displayed those signs before she killed Travis. Instead some have tried to explain away those signs as due to their childhood and/or upbringing. Yet both have siblings that have not killed like they have. I don't think that mental illness is taboo, I just don't think that either woman has any mental illness. Not the kind that can be treated anyway.

I saw alot of my own mother in Casey and Cindy Anthony. There is NO mental illness in my mother. I could also easily see my mother killing someone when she did not get her way. I also know that I at times can be like my mother. This is something I have strived to change. If I see myself behave like my mother I stop and change my behavior. The difference between myself and mother, I work at changing those things I don't like about myself where she thinks that there is nothing wrong with HER and everyone else is the problem. She has been to counseling, however when one refuses to admit their own faults and instead blames everything on everyone else then nothing changes and the counseling does no good.

Jodi has shown that she feels that none of this is HER fault. She is still blaming Travis. She is still telling lies as to "what Travis did to her". So I see my mother in her as well I suppose.

MOO

I suppose hitting her brother over the head with a baseball would be considered as a warning sign if it was over something she wanted. Some children think they are special and can get whatever they want. If they have the fortune of having a mother who thinks the same way it could spell trouble for the child. Some Mom's cover for their children when they know they have done wrong, go to bat for them, so to speak. They sometimes blame the victim...it's all your child's fault that my daughter threw a rock at your child. This can go on forever until the child is grown and they feel entitled to privileges no one else has. When denied chances are that child will be looking for a baseball bat until their hurt feelings are satisfied. Don't we see it a lot today with parents and their denial. Instead of making their child responsible, they cover up their indiscretions thereby avoiding them taking on that responsibility. It's not healthy for a child to experience this way of dealing with their mistakes. Mommy's not always going to be there. jmo

 

[m00c0w]

Eww yeah there's no way in hell I'd ever sit on the drain like that. Not believing he's just hanging out there for relaxation purposes.

lol What's so gross about sitting on a drain versus the rest of the shower?

I think the shower was small enough that if he was going to sit down, he wouldn't have much of a choice but to sit on/near the drain.

 

[kwmred]

I don't think that is a good example for someone who is evil but not a legal criminal. jmo

I agree! Hitler "ordered" the extermination of the jews. That makes him a murderer.

 

[popsicle]

I didn't see anywhere on the ME drawing of the body with pen markings that indicated where the stabs were that were in the spine. But I haven't been able to follow very closely. Did the ME say anything about a stab to the spine? I did hear her interview where she said he said he couldn't feel his legs and that's why she couldn't save him from the ninjas. LOL.

No stab wounds penetrated into the spine.

 

[Sleuth13]

Pool of blood or shower drain. I think she shot him near the right eyebrow it exited left cheek. He fell down, but got up or crawled out. Then the stabbing started

I thought Dr. Horn said the bullet stopped in left cheek, no!? I'll double check but I thought it went in above R brow and there was debate whether or not it went through his brain and then stopped in L cheek.

 

[lil_buddy]

Really? ******? He is responsible for ********. Do you really want to use *** as an example?

I do not know what concept you think I am trying to exemplify.

I was trying to say that there are things about ANYONE that can be seen as good AND evil. It is my response to those who are so confident in their ability to identify and define evil. I am not confident in this area. I have seen for myself very kind people do horrible things and jerks literally put their lives on the line for others.

It is the core of my response to the litany of people accusing those of us who enjoy discussing the psychological aspects of this case of making excuses for JA or blaming the victim.

 

[Love Never Fails]

I don't think that is a good example for someone who is evil but not a legal criminal. jmo

Hitler? He ordered the deaths of six million Jews. And who is to know how many he killed himself.

 

[Sleuth13]

And just one of the MANY bizarre actions she took after the slaughter...contrary to what most self-defense victims would do, wouldn't you agree? Would a self-defense victim call up to hear the voice of the person who just attacked her, in a manner that made her fear for her life??Hope the jury remembers this.

JMO

Great point, DD!!

 

[Quester]

It seems clear that JA’s premeditated plan was to murder TA in the morning in the shower and then drive to her prearranged mid-day meeting with Ryan in Utah but, IMHO, TA delayed getting in the shower which, in turn, delayed JA's plan.

Finally, TA jumped in the shower after 5pm to start getting ready for his 7pm conference call and JA went into action, executing her premeditated plan and TA.

Had the roommate arrived home near 5pm, would JA have carried out her murderous plan anyway, delayed the plan until TA’s next shower, or left the house with TA unharmed???

 

[Pink Panther]

Pool of blood or shower drain. I think she shot him near the right eyebrow it exited left cheek. He fell down, but got up or crawled out. Then the stabbing started

Stephanie - You did a recap of what you thought happened a few pages back and I agree with it completely. I can't find it now or I would have quoted from it! A few things I'd add...

- I think he kicked her out or she left (but on bad terms) and she snuck back in
- I think she took several of those shower photos without him realizing that she was there
- I think she scared the daylights out of him when she made it clear that she was there (by speaking to him while still photographing)

I'm torn about the picture of his face when he is already seated in the shower. I'm convinced that she had already shown him that she had a gun but I'm not sure as to whether she was threatening suicide or threatening him at that point. He doesn't look scared yet. He looks like he's trying to "reach" her through eye contact. So either, he's trying to settle her down not to hurt herself or not to hurt him but I'm not sure which...

Then all hell breaks loose. She shoots him and he DOESN"T JUST DIE! He manages (who knows what state - primal survival maybe) to stagger out of the shower and lift himself up with the counter in front of the mirror at the sink. (Blood spatters everywhere!). I think she only came "equipped" with the gun. I think she tried to shoot it again and it jammed. He got out and got to the sink while she ran back to the bedroom. According the DA there WAS A KNIFE IN THE BEDROOM that they had used for "tie up play". When the gun didn't shoot again and he kept moving around, I think she ran back the bedroom and got it. She stabbed him in the back at the sink and continued to do so as he stumbled out and then all fours along the hallway. She stabbed and stabbed and stabbed until finally desparately, she slashed his throat from behind while he was on all fours in the hallway entering the bedroom. (Hence the pool of blood there.) She dragged him back to the bathroom on a sheet, cleaned up as much as she could and left. I think TA could still have been alive at that point. Incapacitated and brain dead but still alive!

A brutal vicious murder but one that she initially thought she would handle with a single shot.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

I'm going to open that can of worms again.........where is it said that Jodi had to shoot Travis in the shower? Couldn't she have stabbed him while he was in the shower, he made his way from the shower to the sink, she stabbed him in the back and head, he made his way to the hallway of the bathroom almost to his bedroom, she pulled his head back and slit his throat, dragged him back towards the shower, shot him in the head, then put him in the shower again when she was done killing him? Just because Travis was found in the shower with his left side facing out does not mean that Jodi had to have shot him first when he was in the shower.

MOO

 

[Sleuth13]

O/T Anyone watching the superbowl 1/2time show!?!?!? i just took a ride in my time machine! LOL

 

[Pink Panther]

I cannot wait to hear her explanation as to why/how she had a gun!

Travis had it? He hid it in the bathroom?

The gun had to come from somewhere?

 

[human]

Personally I believe that evil exists in this world. No need for me to try and understand it or label it. When you have a person that will brutally kill someone like Jodi did, I have no desire to try and understand what is "wrong" with her. I felt the same way with Casey Anthony. Evil is evil. Those type of people do not deserve to live, IMO. They will always find a victim, they will always inflict pain and suffering on someone. These people can not be rehabilitated, can not change themselves and appear to have no desire to do so. Why keep them alive in prison until they die of natural causes? Why not save everyone the time, money and aggravation and just kill them?

I know there has been talk about nature/nurture. I also know that there are folks that believe that a baby is born a "blank slate" and that their parents and others around them mold them. I don't believe this. I believe that we are born with certain characteristics already formed. I believe that evil can be evil from birth. I believe that a good upbringing can help them to change who they are but that not all of them want to change who they are. I believe that when someone is evil that there are to many excuses used in order to try and understand what "made" them this way. However, if this is the casse then would we not see other siblings, raised the same way by the same parents, as evil as well? Take Jodi for instance, we have seen nothing evil from her siblings. Casey Anthony, her brother has shown no evil either. I'm sure there are many others as well that can be used as examples.

Sorry for the rant, just something that has been brewing for a few days now. I just can't stand it when an evil person is "excused" because of their childhood or upbringing.

MOO

I am not excusing anyone, but children in a family experience things differently based on many things. If a child is sexually abused, burned with cigarettes, and berated, is there no pity for that child who did not choose that life? If that child turns out to be a killer, that person must be kept away from the rest of us.

When I think of my family, my friends and the people I know who provide love, nurturing, opportunities, problem solving skills, academic enrichment, etc and then read about children starved and locked in a closet for years, I wonder about the justice of it all. Cosmic questions.

The death penalty is extremely expensive. The appeals alone make it far more expensive.

LWOP and we are done with her.

 

[GetSmart]

The picture of the shower was awful ..what she did was awful ...but thank you for the pic I did not realize how small the shower was WOW...but man I am so thankful for my shower ..and it has window in in too..I would not like such close quarters ..