trial day 40: the defense continues its case in chief #119

[Smelly Squirrel]

Yep, she said she never so much as seen a picture of Travis until after he was murdered.

I wonder if they also had no contact with DB.

 

[biggirl]

:welcome:

You do realize that this is a breeding ground for frustration and disappointment. On the other hand, the coffee's cheap and there were free Twinkies until recently, when it was discovered that they made an excellent weapon of abuse in the wrong hands.

I agree! I come and go on WS. Got really burnt out after Casey Anthony and took a break. I started with Scott Peterson. I LOVE this site and I LOVE the people who post here. There are wonderful moderators. So happy you are here and encourage other "lurkers" to come and join us. We are good people!

 

[luvtenniss]

Why? How does that fit into our Constitution?

You know, because the lying murderer has to get a fair trial, no matter how much they slander the victim. :banghead:

 

[anagrammy]

Brought over from last thread . . . post #1718 by Anagrammy

Clues coming out

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

OK, Jodi called her mother, whom she "loves" but doesn't have a good relationship with, to help her move back to Yreka.

This is not how it's done in the Mormon community, especially for a single woman. You call the bishop and ask if the elders quorum can help you load. You have everything packed up and they come and load it for you. Then you drive and the elders quorum at the new ward help you unload. I moved this way many times.

If she were an active member, she would know this because she would be receiving calls to help people unpack/move and would know that people coming in were using Travis and his friends' help to unload trucks.

Her being unwilling to do this tells me that she was not considered an active member and it supports my theory that she was being shunned due to word getting around that she was a dangerous stalker.

__________________

Respectfully BBM, and italicized and underlined by me as well. . .

I know single Mormon women who would not ask for this type of help from the church. Sometimes they have to pick and chose what they wish to ask for help from the church . ..( ie: . . .going to Bishops Warehouse (foodbank) or asking for assistance on paying property taxes or buying tires, etc) they have felt they could not ask anymore from the Bishop.

Furthermore, the church has their own counseling services (not necessarily Graduate level providers) . . . JA could have asked for help for herself - but she would have to have disclosed the sexual contact between her and TA.

The 2nd part (that I Bolded and underlined) speaks volumes to me. I am not trying to pick a fight or point out negativity in the LDS church over other organized religions but, in my experience in the LDS faith - Shunning was widely used as a Power and Control tactic over numerous members who were not following the doctrine.

Many other religions use shunning as well but it was much more prevalent in the Mormon faith than others I have experienced (in my personal experience).

Another thing I was somewhat astounded when I heard was JA "went to temple" after she and TA had an argument/fight. this is so misleading . . . .I am sure that JA did not have a "temple recommend" based upon her stellar behaviors in following the doctrine. JA stated she went to the temple visitor center parking lot . . . but that was as close as she could get to the temple. (Unless she was approved to do baptism for the dead but that still requires a sort of temple recommend).

How many LDS members when they are upset drive to the temple parking lot to seek solace? That just seem so weird to me . . . maybe it was the "closest" JA felt she could get to a 'holy place'?

You are absolutely right. Jodi going to the temple parking lot might be as close as she could get, but I think I remember her saying she went through the visitor's center. Many Mormons go to the temple grounds when they are troubled or when they are dating and want to talk about their future, just like any other "sacred place."

Regarding single women asking for help. Some things are more easy to get than others. If you need something fixed that's a danger, or help loading for a move, you can call the elders quorum and they will come even if you are not a temple recommend holder or even if you are not active. If you need food, that is also usually ok esp if you have children and are active. If you need money, unless it is winter and you are freezing, that is much harder to get.

Jodi Arias believed in the Law of Attraction and the principle of "Acting As If." Mormon converts do not talk like Jodi. Their journals are full of things like, "I read Section 132 in the Doctrine and Covenants today and realized that the polygamy is a true principle given to Joseph Smith by the Lord himself. This is so exciting! Just think--I will be pregnant in heaven and get a chance to bear spirit children which will be clothed in human bodies here on earth. I realize now that I lived close to my Heavenly Father and MOther before I was born on earth. Wow that is such an exciting concept! I brought this up at Family Home Evening and...."

Jodi Arias should have been learning these new concepts at church and writing/talking about them. As a convert, she should have been excited at learning about Jesus walking the earth in the Americas after his crucifixion. These are all unique Mormon perspectives and when I was Mormon we talked about them constantly.

I never, ever met or knew anyone in the Mormon church who talked about the Law of Attraction or any of the other MLM principles Jodi apparently got from Travis. Also, journals in Mormonism are kept "to edify your posterity" rather than for personal mental health reasons or personal growth. That's why hers is so phony. Between the Law of Attraction and Edify Your Posterity, and speak what you want to happen not what is happening, she was blocked at every turn.

This is why she said she was a shadow of her former self. Her identity had been absorbed into a facade and, in the end, even that wasn't good enough for Travis. She had "killed" herself for him and he not only threw her away, but he was going to ruin her chances of scoring another Mormon PPL rich guy.

LaViolette's testimony brought out that Jodi said to Travis that she would not be showing up at the future PPL functions. This was a lie, a test. Travis was supposed to say, "NO! There's no need for you to give up the conferences, you and I will still go. The principles are good salesmanship principles no matter what business you are in and we always have a great time."

When he failed to encourage her to keep coming, she knew he was out to ruin her there as he had already done with the Mormon ward.

He would either shut up or she would eliminate him. He had to die.

Anyhoo, that's my theory.

 

[seguek9]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked (i can't keep up!) What date and year did JW get to before ALV became sick?

Iirc it was march 2008....

 

[Sleuth5]

OK you guys I am thoroughly upset and must share with you what has led me to this level of anxiety.. I just returned home from my Dr's office, just regular check up, and saw the (FNP) Nurse Practioner.. she is a lovely woman, mid-forties, married with twin boys that are Juniors in high school..and I have always thought highly of her..until now...

She brought up the Jodi Arias trial(yes, it was her that brought it up, not me) as I was exhausted and ready to leave and wouldnt have dared to broach such a subject that would only prolong my having to be there any longer than absolutely necessary.. anyhow she asked me what I thought about the woman who had "snapped" and killed her boyfriend..well, I quickly corrected her that first of all they were not, and had not been in a relationship, they were exes, and lived hundreds of miles away from each other.. she says OK, so why do you think she did it?.. I said plain and simple she could not AND would not allow this man with whom she was absolutely fatally attracted to in the most obsessive of ways..that she was not going to allow him to have rejected her and move on with his life..he had flat out called her out on who and what she was and for that Jodi decided he would have to die.

She then said, "well, you're not answering my question, why did she kill him?"..to which I said she is a psychopath thats why and the reasons will never make sense to a person with a non-pathological mind.. she tells me no, this girl is not a psychopath..this girl clearly "snapped" and this was a rage filled murder..his wounds indicate that she could not stop because in her mind she was saying you will never do this to me again..therefor the repeated stabbing and overkill.

I was astonished at what she was saying and told her she was mistaken.. she told me, "no, there are men in this world who prey on women, prey on a particular type of woman.. Travis was one of these men, and Jodi was one of these women who these predators prey on.. he clearly used her, manipulated and lied to her, all the while still being with other women and that when he was done with Jodi, and no longer had any use for her, and wanted to cut all ties with her, that it was at that point that Jodi "snapped"..the overkill happened from this "snapping" that occurred in this woman and the fury was her saying to him you will never ever do this to me or anyone else ever again!."

Let me tell you I was downright angry...very, very angry at this point in time and I just simply could not understand why or how this woman I have known for years, respected, and even liked..how could she be of this frame of mind WRT this psychopathic, cold blooded killer, Jodi... I told her that I respectfully did not at all agree with her and asked her was she really informed and aware of the facts of the case because I could see *possibly* how someone unaware of the facts could "possibly" come to a quick conclusion of Jodi being the victim.. she assured me she was quite aware of the circumstances and the facts of the case and that the DV witness that was now testifying was doing a great job of bringing these exact manipulations, emotional abuses, and predatory nature of Travis to light.. this showing that it was the combination and long term affect of having suffered those very real abuses at the hand of Travis that is what led to Jodi "snapping" and killing him in such a brutal fashion.. she said hormones are involved in that "snapping" and that any woman can absolutely be pushed to this "snapping" point where they could react in such a brutal nature towards their abuser..

Guys, I cannot tell you just how angry and sick that I became in hearing this from my nurse practitioner and was very, very short with her in my excusing myself and leaving the office without even making my follow up appt.. I can guarantee that my blood pressure was near stroke level and I knew that if I continued the conversation with her that I was going to accomplish nothing but make my own self sick, and not in any way convince this woman just how scarily wrong she was in her opinion of this case.. I am still sick about it right now well over an hour later and I'm still upset and angry..

My entire point for sharing is what IMO is making me the sickest is the fact that there are supposed highly educated, "normal" women who are actually buying the bull$hit for which this wicked pychopathic witch and her defense team are selling... that is truly, truly disturbing on every level.. it is sickening and I am truly fearful that my nurse practitioner is not the only person who is of this particular mindset..most importantly is the question of is there even one person on this jury that is of this mindset that my nurse practioner is?..because that is all it takes is JUST ONE!..JUST ONE PERSON on that jury can prevent justice from being served for Travis Alexander and his beautifully, strong loved ones who have endured more hell in just these last few months than most of us will endure in our entire lifetimes.. And I honestly just cannot bear to think of their having to be once again struck with the pain of not only having lost the bright and beautiful light that was their brother, Travis Victor Alexander..but to on top of that loss have to endure justice being stolen and stripped from them as well..

I do know and realize that my being forever affected by what happened with Caylee Marie Anthony and the Pinellas 12 is a factor of which makes me have much more doubt and fear of the outcome of this trial as well.. and IMO if it were not for experiencing that brutal, unjust reality I know I would not be near as fearful as I am right now, in this moment in time with Travis' case.. I am praying that I am just overreacting due to several of these factors and that much more likely than not that justice will prevail for Travis and his precious loved ones...but I cannot lie and say that I am not filled with more fear and anxiety after hearing this shocking opinion from someone who I have for many years thought of very highly(my FNP)..

I just needed to vent and to get others opinions and feedback on this and of course that is exactly why I came here to my friends at Websleuths:heartbeat:.. because one thing I do know is that you all know, truly know the actual facts of this case, not the bull$hit fed to the media thru the defense, but the actual facts of this case.. and I just have to hope that these jurors who have seen and heard the evidence up close and personal will see the truth as we do.. that truth being that Travis Victor Alexander IS, WAS, AND ALWAYS HAS BEEN THE ONLY VICTIM THAT THERE IS IN THIS CASE..and that Jodi Arias took his life in the most ultimate of heinous ways for NOTHING BUT PURE SELFISH GAIN AND SATISFACTION..COLD BLOODED BRUTAL SLAUGHTER IS WHAT SHE DID and my God how I am praying that this jury is seeing the TRUTH, and not being blinded by these overboard antics of deflecting and diverting attention away from the facts that this defense team has and continues to do..

My apologies for the long winded rant.. I just really, really needed to share with y'all my experience today at my doctor's office.. Thanks for listening:hug:

Guess you have to consider that most people really aren't paying the kind of attention folks like us are to this trial. We are actually doing a lot of thinking and bouncing thoughts off a very large community of really bright people. It's easy to form those kind of snap judgments based on a small amount of information. I think it would be difficult to come to those conclusions if she had sat through the entire trial thusfar and listened to the evidence presented. Sounds like a snap judgment to me and she really couldn't support the argument with solid facts.

 

[Isabelle]

I have low blood sugar, and I have met my floor , personally, more times than I can count. A glass of OJ or two tablespoons of peanut butter, and I am fine within a FEW minutes. I mean we're talking like MAYBE 10-15 minutes.

I also have low blood sugar or as the medicals not call it, hyperinsulinemia. My results from the intake of sugar, but can be quickly resolved with sugar and I usually add a protein too. I hate it, it is a pain in the you know what. I have not met my floor, i have come close, but not yet.

 

[katydid23]

I'm sorry if this has already been asked (i can't keep up!) What date and year did JW get to before ALV became sick?

IIRC, March of 2008.

 

[cricket49]

I think her desire to see the after pics was for a much colder reason. She was trying to create her story. I think as far as she was concerned TA was gone. She had no more use for him. I don't think she wanted to revel in what she did, she just wanted details of what the cops knew. I am sure she looks at those pics with absolutely no emotion. She was ready to move on, but had to deal with pesky little problem of being arrested for capital murder.

BBM

YEA, remember the tape with Flores, her head on the table and crying "It's Not Fair!!!" lease:

 

[SCSam]

Well time to get into the rush hour traffic and head to WalMart.


keep the good posts coming!!!

BEWARE....I went to Wally World this morning for 3 little things... wound up at checkout with $147 and change.

 

[Softail]

Dumb question but I do not know the answer. Why is it that ALL the evidence is not allowed for the jury to see such as the tapes etc???

:tos: of evidence and all that gobble-de-gook.

 

[Nhic]

I just cannot understand why ALV's bs testibaloney trashing a butchered victim she never met is allowed, but interrogation tapes depicting the truth about the defendant are not.

It makes no sense. What a crazy messed up world.:banghead:

 

[Maryann123]

Sorry if this has been answered, but can the parents' interrogation tapes be used in court? HLN just showed one of JA's mom and the mom says JA has a warped view of her childhood. That JA thought her parents were always snooping through her stuff. Sure doesn't sound like she was really abused in childhood.

This is an excellent post that has not gotten the attention it deserves. She most certainly did say Jodi had a warped view of her childhood. That goes to the "abuse" claim as well as the snooping. I'm sure Jodi's claims that Travis read her journals was another warped view, or wishful thinking on her part. I'm certain her mother would lie if called to the stand, so I would never want to see her there, but these tapes should be played.

 

[gngr~snap]

They say some of it is unduly prejudicial and irrelevant to the case. I know there are reasons for it, but I don't get it. I think anything that was truly said or done should be allowable.

Me too.
Someone on HLN state that is why the parents have NOT taken the stand.
It's because these tapes exist and JM would impeach anything they said
to defend JA based on the fact that neither were surprised or argued it could not have possibly been JA.

Her mom did try for a second stating JA"s hair and finger prints would be there because she cleaned his home.
Then Flores said both the hair and prints were bloody.

She got it immediately.

 

[livelife]

OK you guys I am thoroughly upset and must share with you what has led me to this level of anxiety.. I just returned home from my Dr's office, just regular check up, and saw the (FNP) Nurse Practioner.. she is a lovely woman, mid-forties, married with twin boys that are

....My apologies for the long winded rant.. I just really, really needed to share with y'all my experience today at my doctor's office.. Thanks for listening:hug:

Is your nurses first name Alyce by chance? :great:

 

[ragdoll316]

I MUST say. I do find sympathy for JA mom. I find her tears believable. I seriously think I am a human lie detector. I can practically smell someone lying. Some call me skeptical, but I think I am more a realist. Whatever, I don't buy bull. But I DO buy Sandy. I cannot make judgment on her dad yet, don't have a feel for him.

Even NG says that she would lie for her child if they committed a crime. Iremember years ago being shocked when hearing her say that, but I suppose many moms will do anything, even for a crazy azz disconnected child who appreciated nothing.

My best friend has a son who is a crazy disconnected criminal. Her other son is a very sweet successful businessman. The good son was an accident, the other son was very much wanted with her husband and love of her life. He was like he is now all of his life, from birth. She had always wanted more kids...until she had him. She had her tubes tied. However, it is not within her to turn him away. No matter how many times he's stolen from her or pulled some crazy pscho episode.

We live near each other and not long ago he broke into my window in the middle of the night. He almost got himself shot. Really my dog saved him because he wasn't barking and I took a second look and recognized his jacket. I told my friend about it and she said he would have deserved getting shot...he has been before...but dont kill him. But in the dark, in a panic, who knows. I am just glad it didn't happen.

He claimed he got locked out and was just trying to get inside and lie down which was a lie like pretty much everything out of his mouth. I think he was looking for money or maybe the gun I almost shot him with. I don't know. He has stolen from me before. We both have to walk around with any and all valuables on our person when he is around. It drives me insane and I don't know how she lives like that but he would be in jail or on the street without her.

She has had no problem calling the cops on him if he is acting crazy but I have no doubt she would try to save his life if he got himself into a situation like Jodi.

 

[The Farm]

They say some of it is unduly prejudicial and irrelevant to the case. I know there are reasons for it, but I don't get it. I think anything that was truly said or done should be allowable.

Thanks. I don't get it either.

 

[fifteen89]

Sandy Arias says that Jodi never allowed her to visit her at Jodi's place in Monterrey because she was afraid that her mom would snoop through her stuff.

Is this the first post about these tapes? I just got back home and wanna know if I need to go back farther to find out what all is on these tapes. TIA!

 

[snowcat]

Dumb question but I do not know the answer. Why is it that ALL the evidence is not allowed for the jury to see such as the tapes etc???

I'm only speculating and would also appreciate a legal expert's opinion but -

I'm guessing because it's a death penalty case, great leeway is given to the defense? The tapes are probably deemed "too prejudicial" to Arias because they show her in a negative light..while the victim's family ( and the rest of us) must endure ridiculous, unsubstantiated prejudice towards the victim Travis -such as possibly manufactured, ripped out journal pages that are produced by the murderer and paraphrased and offered as hearsay evidence by a 2nd party that Travis was pedo, abuser :furious:

 

[TexasMother]

You are absolutely right. Jodi going to the temple parking lot might be as close as she could get, but I think I remember her saying she went through the visitor's center. Many Mormons go to the temple grounds when they are troubled or when they are dating and want to talk about their future, just like any other "sacred place."

Regarding single women asking for help. Some things are more easy to get than others. If you need something fixed that's a danger, or help loading for a move, you can call the elders quorum and they will come even if you are not a temple recommend holder or even if you are not active. If you need food, that is also usually ok esp if you have children and are active. If you need money, unless it is winter and you are freezing, that is much harder to get.

Jodi Arias believed in the Law of Attraction and the principle of "Acting As If." Mormon converts do not talk like Jodi. Their journals are full of things like, "I read Section 132 in the Doctrine and Covenants today and realized that the polygamy is a true principle given to Joseph Smith by the Lord himself. This is so exciting! Just think--I will be pregnant in heaven and get a chance to bear spirit children which will be clothed in human bodies here on earth. I realize now that I lived close to my Heavenly Father and MOther before I was born on earth. Wow that is such an exciting concept! I brought this up at Family Home Evening and...."

Jodi Arias should have been learning these new concepts at church and writing/talking about them. As a convert, she should have been excited at learning about Jesus walking the earth in the Americas after his crucifixion. These are all unique Mormon perspectives and when I was Mormon we talked about them constantly.

I never, ever met or knew anyone in the Mormon church who talked about the Law of Attraction or any of the other MLM principles Jodi apparently got from Travis. Also, journals in Mormonism are kept "to edify your posterity" rather than for personal mental health reasons or personal growth. That's why hers is so phony. Between the Law of Attraction and Edify Your Posterity, and speak what you want to happen not what is happening, she was blocked at every turn.

This is why she said she was a shadow of her former self. Her identity had been absorbed into a facade and, in the end, even that wasn't good enough for Travis. She had "killed" herself for him and he not only threw her away, but he was going to ruin her chances of scoring another Mormon PPL rich guy.

LaViolette's testimony brought out that Jodi said to Travis that she would not be showing up at the future PPL functions. This was a lie, a test. Travis was supposed to say, "NO! There's no need for you to give up the conferences, you and I will still go. The principles are good salesmanship principles no matter what business you are in and we always have a great time."

When he failed to encourage her to keep coming, she knew he was out to ruin her there as he had already done with the Mormon ward.

He would either shut up or she would eliminate him. He had to die.

Anyhoo, that's my theory.

Always interesting posts! Thanks!