trial day 41: the defense continues its case in chief #122

[pufnstuf]

I just have a hard time believing that a couple of heated arguments between people who dated for FIVE MONTHS and then a final "eff you" text message series from the one who was being stalked could have caused PTSD and Battered Woman Syndrome in the accused. Just really finding it hard to believe... color me silly, I guess.

 

[thefragile7393]

Well I do. I hope you never ever have to go through what those of us have to go through. I would want JM every single day/year/century in that courtroom speaking for me and my family. Say what you will. Until you have walked in my shoes, you may think differently..

Considering his win record, I would be glad to have someone fighting so passionately for my side. I don't care if I don't like everything he does...he is extremely competent. That's all that matters, not his personality. Unfortunately many people can't see the big picture. It's about justice. It's not pageant with Mr. Congeniality as one of the winning titles. It's not a popularity contest.

 

[ClosArgs]

So let's say ALV is dt's last witness, get thru juror question, redirect and rebuttal.

Now Juan's Rebuttal: We know there is a computer forensics expert, Demarte the psych expert, who else do you think he has?

 

[Beaglemania]

I'm glad that you're giving voice to an unpopular opinion. I agree with you that the text messages, emails, etc. show evidence of emotional and verbal abuse toward Jodi. Even if Travis had a good reason to be angry with her, he was very ready and able to be cruel. His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger. The words he wrote were meant to not only to reject her--which was his right--but to annihilate her completely.

Why is this so hard to accept, even with the proof in black and white? Why do people seem to think that acknowledging the truth of Travis' emotional violence automatically means excusing Jodi's exteme violence? It doesn't and it won't. She killed a man, and it doesn't look at all like she did it in self defense. But, if Jodi is a sick woman who got sicker because of this relationship, this is something that has to be heard. The truth still matters. Hatred for the liar, the killer, however natural that may be, can't negate the evidence. And, yes, even the fact that she did the worst thing possible can't negate the evidence. It is a deliberate act of intellectual dishonesty to allow hatred to blot out facts.
Take Jodi out of the equation, and what we're left with here is a lot of people saying that the only "real" abuse there is is the kind that leaves physical marks; the rest, though equally damaging, is being minimized or denied. People say that Jodi herself is insulting victims of intimate partner violence, but I see the insult happening right here, on these boards.

Totally Absurd PERIOD. Jodi getting "sicker because of this relationship"? LMAO!!! Jodi= "A Bad Seed".

 

[dbranam]

I'm glad that you're giving voice to an unpopular opinion. I agree with you that the text messages, emails, etc. show evidence of emotional and verbal abuse toward Jodi. Even if Travis had a good reason to be angry with her, he was very ready and able to be cruel. His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger. The words he wrote were meant to not only to reject her--which was his right--but to annihilate her completely.

Why is this so hard to accept, even with the proof in black and white? Why do people seem to think that acknowledging the truth of Travis' emotional violence automatically means excusing Jodi's exteme violence? It doesn't and it won't. She killed a man, and it doesn't look at all like she did it in self defense. But, if Jodi is a sick woman who got sicker because of this relationship, this is something that has to be heard. The truth still matters. Hatred for the liar, the killer, however natural that may be, can't negate the evidence. And, yes, even the fact that she did the worst thing possible can't negate the evidence. It is a deliberate act of intellectual dishonesty to allow hatred to blot out facts.

Take Jodi out of the equation, and what we're left with here is a lot of people saying that the only "real" abuse there is is the kind that leaves physical marks; the rest, though equally damaging, is being minimized or denied. People say that Jodi herself is insulting victims of intimate partner violence, but I see the insult happening right here, on these boards.

How can one be subject to emotional and verbal abuse when they are not living under the same roof as the alleged abuser? If Ms. Arias wanted to end the abuse she could have just stopped responding to the victim's emails, texts etcetera. The problem with you trying to equate emotional abuse with murder is that victims don't get a chance to stop the violence. One shot to the head, stab to the chest or knife cutting through the throat and it is over. Ms. Arias is the person who committed this act not Travis. She is the only abuser.

 

[Lorelilly]

Did I hear somewhere that the defense has another witness after Alyce? Please tell me that isn't true. Also, does anyone know the schedule for next week? Thank you!

At the start of trial this morning, after Nurmi threw the jury under the bus, he told the judge his witness needed to testify asap due to his schedule or some such bull. So yes, the DT has at least one more horror to throw at us. God help us.

 

[StephanieHartPI]

Some clarification on some things.

1. ALV was the SIXTH DV person the defense tried to hire and have as their witness. ALV testified to this one of her many days on the stand during direct.

2. The Judge DID talk to ALV after court today. I was listening to the court proceedings and made special note of the Judge dismissing the jury then asking the lawyers if there was anything else, to which Juan reminded her that she was to talk to ALV in private. Now, it could have been about ALVs attitude while on the stand OR it could have been about ALV not only approaching Samantha but also speaking to her during one of the court breaks OR it could have been about both.

Hope this helps and clear up any confusion.

I love this information, this tells me clearly, 5 prior DV Experts did not find her the victim of abuse (we call that doctor shopping)

 

[MistyM]

I'm glad that you're giving voice to an unpopular opinion. I agree with you that the text messages, emails, etc. show evidence of emotional and verbal abuse toward Jodi. Even if Travis had a good reason to be angry with her, he was very ready and able to be cruel. His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger. The words he wrote were meant to not only to reject her--which was his right--but to annihilate her completely.

Why is this so hard to accept, even with the proof in black and white? Why do people seem to think that acknowledging the truth of Travis' emotional violence automatically means excusing Jodi's exteme violence? It doesn't and it won't. She killed a man, and it doesn't look at all like she did it in self defense. But, if Jodi is a sick woman who got sicker because of this relationship, this is something that has to be heard. The truth still matters. Hatred for the liar, the killer, however natural that may be, can't negate the evidence. And, yes, even the fact that she did the worst thing possible can't negate the evidence. It is a deliberate act of intellectual dishonesty to allow hatred to blot out facts.

Take Jodi out of the equation, and what we're left with here is a lot of people saying that the only "real" abuse there is is the kind that leaves physical marks; the rest, though equally damaging, is being minimized or denied. People say that Jodi herself is insulting victims of intimate partner violence, but I see the insult happening right here, on these boards.

i respect your opinion, but please remember, for one thing, do NOT just go on what the defense is presenting, they are picking through things and twisting it around to make travis look really bad, and two, everything that alyce is saying is based on what jodi said, and she is very much proven to be a very big liar.

i don't hate jodi, i think she really screwed up. i think she was really pretty and a great artist and could have done a lot of positive things with her life. but she was screwed up, way before travis. she was not in a first time relationship, she'd had many before. maybe the guys, including travis weren't perfect, but neither was she. i don't believe for one moment she was a victim. she's only playing the part to explain why she killed someone in cold blood. she went to mesa with a plan. there is no doubt in my mind. look at the concrete evidence, not the psychobabble by paid 'experts'.

 

[Truth Detector]

Confusing Snow White with someone else:

 

[BeachGirlFromPA]

Some clarification on some things.

1. ALV was the SIXTH DV person the defense tried to hire and have as their witness. ALV testified to this one of her many days on the stand during direct.

2. The Judge DID talk to ALV after court today. I was listening to the court proceedings and made special note of the Judge dismissing the jury then asking the lawyers if there was anything else, to which Juan reminded her that she was to talk to ALV in private. Now, it could have been about ALVs attitude while on the stand OR it could have been about ALV not only approaching Samantha but also speaking to her during one of the court breaks OR it could have been about both.

Hope this helps and clear up any confusion.

Not to disagree with you but as to #2.... The Judge clearly said that she wanted to see counsel in private and mentioned the hallway.... If my ears are clogged, I apologize in advance but that is what I heard.

 

[TartLemon]

I thought the laughter was completely rude and disrespectful to the FACT there is a dead victim. This is not a Broadway play for entertainment. It is a trial seeking justice for a VICTIM who was stabbed, butchered and shot.

Those who laughed should be banned from the courtroom.

 

[Applejack]

I'm glad that you're giving voice to an unpopular opinion. I agree with you that the text messages, emails, etc. show evidence of emotional and verbal abuse toward Jodi. Even if Travis had a good reason to be angry with her, he was very ready and able to be cruel. His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger. The words he wrote were meant to not only to reject her--which was his right--but to annihilate her completely.

Why is this so hard to accept, even with the proof in black and white? Why do people seem to think that acknowledging the truth of Travis' emotional violence automatically means excusing Jodi's exteme violence? It doesn't and it won't. She killed a man, and it doesn't look at all like she did it in self defense. But, if Jodi is a sick woman who got sicker because of this relationship, this is something that has to be heard. The truth still matters. Hatred for the liar, the killer, however natural that may be, can't negate the evidence. And, yes, even the fact that she did the worst thing possible can't negate the evidence. It is a deliberate act of intellectual dishonesty to allow hatred to blot out facts.

Take Jodi out of the equation, and what we're left with here is a lot of people saying that the only "real" abuse there is is the kind that leaves physical marks; the rest, though equally damaging, is being minimized or denied. People say that Jodi herself is insulting victims of intimate partner violence, but I see the insult happening right here, on these boards.

No one said emotional/psychological abuse isn't "real" abuse. He said some nasty stuff during a few arguments where he expressed he had een hurt worse than he ever had been, and Jodi did not seem to understand or care and he was stuck trying to communicate this through texts. Most people have. It does not equate to "domestic violence." A few text/email arguments is not enough, I'm sorry. I think they were in a mutually destructive relaionship. I do not see proof of domestic violence. I would probably call someone who refused to stay out of my life, contacted every potential partner, slashed my tires, peeped through my windows, crawled through a doggy door, hacked my email, and creeped out in my closet, plenty of names myself. It would be completely justified.

 

[gloomy]

Gloomy...your animals are precious and my blood pressure just fell at least 10 beats a minute. Thank you.

Awww... hugs...:grouphug:
Yeah, this thread is kinda strange right now.

p.s. they're not my animals but they are precious! :beats:

 

[BritsKate]

I'm glad that you're giving voice to an unpopular opinion. I agree with you that the text messages, emails, etc. show evidence of emotional and verbal abuse toward Jodi. Even if Travis had a good reason to be angry with her, he was very ready and able to be cruel. His words dehumanized her more than they expressed his own feelings of betrayal, pain, and anger. The words he wrote were meant to not only to reject her--which was his right--but to annihilate her completely.

Why is this so hard to accept, even with the proof in black and white? Why do people seem to think that acknowledging the truth of Travis' emotional violence automatically means excusing Jodi's exteme violence? It doesn't and it won't. She killed a man, and it doesn't look at all like she did it in self defense. But, if Jodi is a sick woman who got sicker because of this relationship, this is something that has to be heard. The truth still matters. Hatred for the liar, the killer, however natural that may be, can't negate the evidence. And, yes, even the fact that she did the worst thing possible can't negate the evidence. It is a deliberate act of intellectual dishonesty to allow hatred to blot out facts.

Take Jodi out of the equation, and what we're left with here is a lot of people saying that the only "real" abuse there is is the kind that leaves physical marks; the rest, though equally damaging, is being minimized or denied. People say that Jodi herself is insulting victims of intimate partner violence, but I see the insult happening right here, on these boards.

You're aware that some on this board who disbelieve Jodi's accounts of alleged abuse - and instead believe Travis was a victim of intimate partner violence culminating in homicide - are themselves survivors of psychological (aka emotional abuse), right?

It's actually one of the reasons I'm pretty vocal about my experiences, to dispel the myth that abuse starts and stops with physical violence, among many others.

Travis shows absolutely no red flags consistent with an abusive personality apart from the claims of the defendant and her entourage. There are a very rigid set of behaviors common in almost all abusers. But I think this is something you either see or you don't and no matter how many times I pull out my baggage of personal history to attempt to illustrate a point, it'll sometimes be moot.

So, goodnight everybody!

 

[thefragile7393]

Wait until we get to the Stalker Wolf and the Three Little Pigs!

Rumpelstiltskin! Actually that one is kinda creepy...

 

[coup de grace]

I'm finally getting a chance to watch the footage from today. Jennifer Willmott made herself look like an even bigger fool than she ever has before when she made that dig at Juan, asking whether ALV had a memory problem or if she any had feelings for JA. It was so obvious that she thought it was her big huge punchline, and she almost seemed nervous to say it. What an idiotic thing to do. She brought up the books ALV sent to JA for NO OTHER PURPOSE than to get a random dig in at the Prosecutor!

Seriously, what an awkward moment. Too bad whatever school JW graduated from can't take back her law degree. I'd wager a bet that they sure don't want her representing their alumni association!

Props to you, but I think she took a little steam out of him using the "memory loss card" again. He will just have to improvise.

 

[SuperTmo]

I'm shocked at how often the lady who sits behind the DT is smirking and smiling in response to things the witness says. It's very professional. When ALV asked if Juan was angry w/ her, the lady practically had to hide her face to cover up her laughing. Idiot.

 

[Applejack]

Not to disagree with you but as to #2.... The Judge clearly said that she wanted to see counsel in private and mentioned the hallway.... If my ears are clogged, I apologize in advance but that is what I heard.

At what point today did she approach the sisters? Was it on tape? Thanks

 

[TigerBalm]

Regarding a question on why the defendant chose to leave her parents home.

Willmott: Objection, relevance, speculation, it's a FAIRYTALE
:laughcry:

Second most honest thing you have said Willmott, right after Jodi Arias killed Travis Alexander, there is no question about it.

Objection, it's a fairytale

 

[Smelly Squirrel]

I agree. I LOVE Mark, but his trial strategy is sometimes deficient, imo.

One example, was that he thought that Juan should have cut his cross of the killer to a couple of hours in total. he claimed that ALL Juan needed to do was to impeach her on all of her public lies, and then sit down. I strongly disagreed.

The jury might cut her a break on the lies, seeing as how she was trying to protect herself from being arrested for Capital Murder. Who woudn't lie in that situation?

Juan KNEW he needed more than that. And he stuck to it and got a lot more important ammo than just her being a liar. We saw her strong aggressive demeanor, which conflicted with her earlier defense crafted persona of a meek
survivor. We heard her ADMIT that she loved the sex and it was mutual and consensual. And we saw her try to explain the murder while under fire from the prosecutor, and not while being hand held by Nurmi. Much different way to see her try and sell that fabricated scenario.

Mark also advised him to just ignore Dr Samuels and not really do a strong cross. Again, I think Juan proved him wrong. It was very productive to go after Samuels and show what a joke that PTSD diagnosis was. JMO

His criticisms are monotonous, and monotonously off base. He keeps saying that JM never varies his tone. That's blatantly false. JM mostly talks with a calm, cordial voice. He occasionally affects hostility or impatience, but in suitable moments when the witness has it coming because of evasiveness. And the Snow White angle makes perfect sense, even if the THs are too stupid to get it.