trial day 45: the defense continues its case in chief #137

[Sleuth5]

<modsnip>

One thing that really bothered me yesterday was ALV's very rehearsed answer to whether or not she believed JA is a liar. She said something like, we'll she would have come up with a good lie if she was a liar but she didn't. (Paraphrased)

I have known liars and they always come up with terrible, stupid lies!

Just such a dumb answer it bothered me to no end.:banghead:

Bad, transparent lying is a strong indicator of narcissistic personality disorder. People with the disorder need to carefully control their immediate circle of contacts in order to manage their self-image as projected to that group. This always includes damage control for lies that are revealed by side conversations. Unfortunately for them, they are so enamored with themselves that they are unable to recognize how transparent their lies are to others -- particularly to those outside of their immediate control. This is why most narcissists do not have long term friendships of any kind, as long association will result in others detecting inconsistencies and eventually revealing the narcissist as a liar.

She cannot see, even now, that her silly "self-defense" story is as transparent as glass. However, we should not doubt that if she could limit the group involved, she might be able to convince them that it was true. Unfortunately for her, the worst thing that can happen to a narcissist is to have their books opened to a large group of strangers -- in that instance, they are transparent and obvious, even clumsy liars.

:cow:

 

[concernedmother]

She couldnt be serious when she said he wasnt being honest with people about his virginity keeping it from the church, his friends, family. Seriously, when you have sex the first time do you tweet it, fb it, call all your family and friends and announce it? That had to be the most moron thing said during this trial.
That really isnt anyones business. Also, all religions I am familiar with all discourage premarital sex. Doesnt mean that every unmarried person sitting in church is a virgin.

 

[TigerBalm]

TigerBalm, looking at the pigtail pics. in your signature, there is another one out there where she looks to be well into her twenties, wearing a cap. I don't know where to find it now, but it adds to the fact that she liked herself in pigtails.

 

[molly333]

Yes, I meant double life..But, it also seems like they are making a mockery out of his life too.. Nice to meet you Molly!

I think the Defense has no choice because these things have to come out for their case to be argued and understood.

However, the more I see of this trial, the more I think the Prosecution should have cut a murder two deal with the Defense and just put a longer time period on it--maybe 25 years to life.

Maybe everybody's wishing they did that now.

Nice to meet you, too!

IMO

 

[JustJudy]

Respectfully snipped for length, by me

.....And she means that literally and figuratively. I think *she* has family of origin issues re: abuse and I think she may have had abuse in previous relationships, perhaps her marriage.....

.....She could even somehow see Jodi as representative of what she wishes she could have done to a man who truly abused her (or even behaved in a way that she defines as abusive) or maybe she wishes her mother had been able to take action against her father ... whatever the issues are with DV Lady, there is no arguing the issues are there. And glaring.......

I'm sure you're not suggesting ALV wishes Travis' fate for her own father; all the same, just a friendly reminder from yesterday's moderator cautions:

"If you have made disparaging remarks about the defense team or their witnesses, go back and delete your comments or alert the post and ask that a moderator delete it for you."

 

[kayice]

IN my opinion the comment Travis made was in reference to a girl pleasuring herself and reaching climax for the first time. Icky, of course but not far outside of average dirty phone sex talk, Especially if Jodi liked to play the little girl.
It's the only recording of their intimate discussions that we've heard. We have no idea of how their fantasies came about. He made no reference to wanting to have sex with a child or to see a child sexually:moo:

They were role playing in my opinion and in that role play Jodi was the dirty little girl.

Maybe Jodi told Travis about her first time and she wanted to turn back time. We are not privy to conversations in person these two had in their sex life and dear Jodi had been setting up/gas-lighting Travis wayyyy before she killed him for blackmail purposes. Imho, every time Travis spoke or even looked at another woman, Jodi seethed with rage.

 

[Liebchenmutti]

They are not making a mockery of it.

They are pointing out he was leading a 'double life.'

ALV said yesterday, one half to two thirds of abusers are leading a double life, and the implications of that.

IMO

He was only living a double life after he met the sexually aggressive, stalking, obsessed. lying, murdering Jodi Arias. Travis dated Mormon girls from his Ward. Their testimony was that this "dating" was not sexual--the most they did was "grind"--a far cry from the sex that Jodi introduced. SHE introduced "tossing the salad"--oral stimulation on her anus, anal sex, KY lube, . Jodi used her vagina as a means to live a parasitical existence.

Also: There is absolutely NO EVIDENCE to suggest Travis was an abuser. NONE. Jodi effed her finger up KILLING TRAVIS. She's a pathological liar. And the jury agrees with me.

Travis was a real human being. Jodi is a sick sociopath with no empathy.

 

[nursebeeme]

And I seriously ask this. How was it a double life. He lived with other people. Did JA turn to vapor so noone saw her as she was coming in and leaving. Yeah, they might not have known the first few times what was going on, but please...those roommates knew what was going on bedroom number one.

K

not to mention all the interviews with the PPL friends on HLN to include the one of the video with Jodi lying in Travis's lap. He wasn't trying to "hide" her per his friends and it is even shown on video that he was openly affectionate with her in public.

 

[Sunny_In_AZ]

They are not making a mockery of it.

They are pointing out he was leading a 'double life.'

ALV said yesterday, one half to two thirds of abusers are leading a double life, and the implications of that.

IMO

They are also forgetting to point out that Jodi was also living this same double life. She was also supposed to be chaste but I guess her deception doesn't matter do the defense. Was she letting the guys know on the Mormon Linkup that she was having sex?

 

[raisincharlie]

:seeya: Good Morning.

Looks to me like Juror #5 may not have been the problem after all! :floorlaugh:

If I were Ms. Wilmott, once the remainder of the jury questions are answered, I would say 'no questions, your honour', and get that woman off the stand ASAP

That would appear to be the smart course, betting my cup of tea it won't happen though.

 

[Snoods]

I also enjoyed the question about how many of the 18 forensic cases she testified in was a man the victim? I'm watching her count on her fingers again, and she comes out with the number 2. I LOL'd thinking "you really need your fingers to count to 2?"

In fact, including this one it would be 3.

And one of her examples was a man against man case.

 

[beeshie]

IMO once it's clear the sex tape is completely, absolutely, indisputably consensual and mutual, I don't get why it's even relevant?? I realize it might offend the sensibilities of some but it has nothing to do with abuse (except to prove the sex was mutual) and it has nothing to do with the murder.

Again, imo, it actually supports the prosecution. IF it could somehow be suggested, it could even be evidence Jodi was blackmailing TA. :twocents:

Are you kidding? It was GREAT for ratings.

 

[YESorNO]

Yes, I meant double life..But, it also seems like they are making a mockery out of his life too.. Nice to meet you Molly!

:Welcome1: I'm :newhere: too. Great forum.:seeya:

 

[BritsKate]

BBM

Alyce LaViolette's methodology sucks. I'm not talking about the fact that she only interviewed Arias, has been both duped by Arias' Journals and verbal claims, and - maybe unwittingly - encouraged/influenced Arias to even greater excesses.

I can well understand why relatives and friends of TA would not want to talk with Ms LaViolette. It would interest me to know if she made any attempt to do so, though. It's inconceivable that she didn't talk with Arias' family and friends. Again, I'd like to know if she even tried.

It's her 'analysis' of the written materials that gets me. She keeps emphasizing, over and over again, just how much 'reading' she has done. She 'read' oh so many of Travis Alexander's and Arias's texts, emails and IM's, (much of the time not sure of which title went with which form of communication).

Now she's telling everyone what she 'thinks' and what she 'believes' some of the written material means/signifies, but has entirely missed out the method she used to evaluate it all.

'There was a lot of written material', is where her analysis began. 'I read a lot of it' is where it apparently ended.

I agree and I believe it's a dangerous slope when someone (and most definitely an advocate) relies solely on abusive behaviors to define an abusive relationship. They're totally different animals. Abuse is very subjective but an abusive relationship follows a very well known pattern of behaviors meant to establish and maintain control over the victim.

One can be abusive and not be an abuser. And, in the same vein, one can be an abuser without such abuse being overt. (Like removing the distributor cap from one's car so they are unable to leave; denying a victim access to money; guilting a victim over seeing friends and family, etc.)

The fact that Travis expressed anger does nothing for me to establish him as an abuser because abuse is never about anger itself. In fact, the rages and anger used by an abuser are often not even real - they're deliberate to cause fear and intimidation in order to keep the victim complacent and in the relationship. (This is also why abuse escalates so rapidly, often violently, when a victim is leaving the relationship or shortly thereafter.) The control they have over their victim is slipping and they have to keep 'upping the ante' in an attempt to re-establish control.

MOO

 

[LambChop]

so did she kick her mother when her mother went to mesa to help her move back to CA?

the jurors obviously know the answer, even if i don't!

Let's hope JM gets a chance to bring that to her attention before she get's off the stand.

 

[Arabian Girl]

She couldnt be serious when she said he wasnt being honest with people about his virginity keeping it from the church, his friends, family. Seriously, when you have sex the first time do you tweet it, fb it, call all your family and friends and announce it? That had to be the most moron thing said during this trial.

Oh come on...that's exactly what EVERY juror did!!! :great:

 

[VALee]

:seeya: Good Morning.

Looks to me like Juror #5 may not have been the problem after all! :floorlaugh:

If I were Ms. Wilmott, once the remainder of the jury questions are answered, I would say 'no questions, your honour', and get that woman off the stand ASAP

Why do that, ALV is a great witness for the state's case, so I say keep her up there as long as needed.

IMO, She has earned the honor of being a cornerstone speaker for the state's case :fence:

 

[camcneishg]

so did she kick her mother when her mother went to mesa to help her move back to CA?

the jurors obviously know the answer, even if i don't!

yes, April 2008
I am thinking that the "hitting her mother" prob took place when the dad knocked her out(as a teen)....my hubby would have done the same, if I didn't do it first....just sayin

 

[Sleuth5]

Okay which one of y'all sent the bomb to sherrff Joe? (Just saw news story on Tv)

Wonder if it was meant for JA?

I say, a smashing good morning to you, Seque! How is that massive bear problem this fine morrow? I hope your trusty companions have kept the brute at bay. :seeya:

 

[Nosey Parker]

Or a "coincidence" that Dr. DeMarte's home was burgled and her laptop stolen? *singing* ... Things that make you go hmmmmm ... *singing*

It's Juan that I worry about, if you know what I mean.