trial day 45: the defense continues its case in chief #137

[molly333]

I really think it was Jodi who came up with it, and I even suspect that Jodi even made such accusations directly to Travis before she murdered him. We'll never know, but I have a feeling that might have had something to do with the long ranting text messages he sent her on May 26. Jodi may have accused him of pedophilia and mentioned the phone sex tape and what he said about braids and the 12 year old girl comment and threatened to tell his friends and colleagues. Who knows?

I just really have a feeling that this was an issue that Jodi tried to hold over Travis before she killed him.

Then why isn't the Prosecution telling us this?

 

[PrincessSezMe]

Thanks!! You're in NS? I'm in MB, and it's still cooooold here! :seeya:

I'm in MB too! Hi there neighbor :seeya:

 

[oceanblueeyes]

It's because nobody understands domestic violence. The Defense doesn't even understand their own case. Alyce tried to explain it from the stand but it went right over everyone's head.

Twenty years ago a therapist told me men express guilt as anger. It went right over my head. I had no idea what he was talking about.

But, that's the key. That is why domestic violence escalates. The more the man leads the double life, the more guilt he feels, the more guilt he feels, the more he acts it out as anger, the more he acts it out as anger, the more guilt he feels. IT'S LIKE A SNAKE EATING ITS TAIL.

That is why Alyce said on the stand--it is ok to feel anger, but it's what you do when you feel that emotion that is the problem. And, she pointed out that Travis anger, as demonstrated in the texts, was now over the top as RAGE, and not only that, but a rage which was not quickly abating.

There's a lot going on here, and nobody seems to be getting it, including the DT.

IMO

I think there a lot of jurors who are 'getting it' and realize this case has nothing to do with an a male abuser. This case is about a very dangerous female domestic violence abuser who murdered her victim when she realized he no longer wanted her in his life. By the questions asked by the jury they absolutely know who the abuser was and its JA.

We will never know why Travis was in such a rage at the end of May, 2008 shortly before she murdered him but IMO JA did something very serious to Travis to make him become so upset. I think he had finally reached the end and couldn't tolerate JAs emotional and psychological abuse anymore. Just like all victims........there will be a point in time in their lives when they will finally strike out at their abuser when they cant hold up under the abusive acts anymore.

When he dared stand up to his abuser.. she did like a lot of domestic violence abusers and came to his home and horrifically murdered him. Many victims of DV have died at the hands of their abuser when they wanted to be rid of the abuser for good. Its that time that is most dangerous and Travis became another homicide statistic due to being a victim of DV by JA.

Psychopaths don't just get 'even' they do horrific things that make them far ahead such as murder. Murdering Travis meant she was the one that controlled his destiny in the end.

IMO

 

[MyTinkieGirl]

well, that's the debate...

The thing is that at no time that we know of did Travis take steps through legitimate means to keep her out of his life. And, three weeks before his death, he is carrying on hours of sex tapes with her and saying loving and flattering things to her.

Do the men you represent do that? Do they continue to have sex with the woman who is abusing them even though they are not married and living in separate homes and even separate states?

Do they refuse to take out restraining orders? Or to report violations to the police?

When did Travis decide that Jodi was a problem? Because I don't see him doing anything to protect himself from her.

IMO

Yet, again, how CAN we find out aything??
Travis is no longer with us, and we are to take a PROVEN liars word AND a supposed "unbiased" expert who may or may not be taking Travis' too literally.

 

[prima.facie]

well, that's the debate...

The thing is that at no time that we know of did Travis take steps through legitimate means to keep her out of his life. And, three weeks before his death, he is carrying on hours of sex tapes with her and saying loving and flattering things to her.

Do the men you represent do that? Do they continue to have sex with the woman who is abusing them even though they are not married and living in separate homes and even separate states?

Do they refuse to take out restraining orders? Or to report violations to the police?

When did Travis decide that Jodi was a problem? Because I don't see him doing anything to protect himself from her.

IMO

lol. what can a person do to force a person from their life? even restraining orders do NOT work! crazy person is going to do what crazy person wants to do.

and to say he did NOTHING to get her out of his life is disingenuous at best.

first, we have information of private conversations that went on between them face to face. next, he changed his garage code so she didn't have it. next, he told her off which, this sane woman would take as: go away. how the hell did he know she would end up killing him? most of the crap she did, he probably didn't even know about or have tangible evidence he could take to the police!

and please substitute man for woman. your bias against men is showing. how many women stay in abusive relationships and NEVER tell anyone?! MANY. ive done it myself. im an example of one who never got the restraining order and stayed with him too long.

 

[ShadyLady]

They are brutal questions.

ALV did worse on these questions from the jurors than even cross with JM. Some of her answers were so painfully ludicrous....JA isn't a liar even though she lied about the 'killing', Bill Clinton, Lance Armstrong (notice, all men!) have lied so it's ok to lie and cover up?, no evidence of physical abuse yet she believes JA, Travis was over the top, extreme??? She really came across as out of touch with reality.

Alyce said Travis' actions were extreme when she was answering the question about Travis "ordering" that Jodi clear her messages. It's so obviously to the jurors now that Alyce does not miss any opportunity to bash Travis.

And trying to shame/humiliate the prosecutor during first minutes of questioning by wanting to give him a timeout, shows she thinks she's the only adult. Condescending, passive/aggressive and arrogant...just like Jodi Girl.

No wonder Alyce and Jodi bonded so quickly. Like birds. IMO.

 

[Chester_from_THM]

I really think it was Jodi who came up with it, and I even suspect that Jodi even made such accusations directly to Travis before she murdered him. We'll never know, but I have a feeling that might have had something to do with the long ranting text messages he sent her on May 26. Jodi may have accused him of pedophilia and mentioned the phone sex tape and what he said about braids and the 12 year old girl comment and threatened to tell his friends and colleagues. Who knows?

I just really have a feeling that this was an issue that Jodi tried to hold over Travis before she killed him.

I think so too, Minor. This kind of accusation would bring out the worst in anyone. I think she threatened to blackmail him, or perhaps even told TA she had already gone to his Bishop and that is why his text(s) that were so rage-filled. That would be an appropriate response, IMO.

I really wish a juror would ask something to that effect. "If" someone was blackmailed with pedophilia accusations, what type of response would you expect the blackmail victim to have, and would that blackmail be a form of abuse."

 

[lil_buddy]

Can someone please <modsnip> tell me what it means to "cork" someone? Is it just a synonym for "f'ing" them?

Corking is not an expression nor is "corking/porking the pot". Period.

I base this on the fact that
a) I pride myself on knowing many obscure euphemisms for naughty things.
b) Urban Dictionary has nothing (verification of purported definitions - thumbs up)
c) Google searches for the phrases "porking the pot" and "corking the pot"
turn up nothing.

I really don't know what the heck ALV is talking about but here's my theory....
ALV was provided with a transcript of the sex tape. In that transcript the DT used the phrase "corking the pot" for some part that was unintelligible. ALV aske JA what that meant. JA told her it was something naughty - a phrase that all the hip Mormon's use or something.

 

[rose222]

I really think it was Jodi who came up with it, and I even suspect that Jodi even made such accusations directly to Travis before she murdered him. We'll never know, but I have a feeling that might have had something to do with the long ranting text messages he sent her on May 26. Jodi may have accused him of pedophilia and mentioned the phone sex tape and what he said about braids and the 12 year old girl comment and threatened to tell his friends and colleagues. Who knows?

I just really have a feeling that this was an issue that Jodi tried to hold over Travis before she killed him.

If JA had this on her mind before the murder then she would have made sure to conduct pedophilic searches on Travis' computer (at least on the day of the murder) to make it look like Travis was in fact a pedophile. She didn't do that. This leads me to believe that she thought of this nasty accusation only after she realized that her previous two versions of what happened on June 4, 2008 did not fit in with the physical evidence.

I think she recorded the sex-tape in order to blackmail Travis.

 

[JustJudy]

Good morning all! Question for all the informed sleuths here:

When Travis said he was scammed, are we sure it was the sex tape and not a financial thing? Him threatening to sue her would send her over the edge. Was it ever proven that money wasn't the root of her "snapping"?

Verrrrrry interesting....and .LE found a check from her to him @ the crime scene. She asked Det Flores if she could get it back.

 

[seguek9]

Out here in the Northwestern wilds, we often roast our own coffee over the campfire, near to our wagons.

We ain't got none of them fancy wagons up in these here Montana mountains ... :bud:

:giggle:

 

[InALandFarFarAway]

Maybe to better state my point: If you force the Defense to put on a case, and you know the case they will put on [which the Prosecution most certainly did], then there is really no complaint to be made--because the Defense hand has been forced.


IMO

Hmmm, I would say the Prosecutor's hand has been forced because the defense team's client committed murder.

The prosecution is under no obligation to give in to what amounts to blackmail.

The outrage is indignant and for good reason. The prosecution can't be forced to allow dangerous criminal to roam free simply because the criminals have buckets of fecal matter to toss around in a courtroom.

JMO

 

[BritsKate]

It's because nobody understands domestic violence. The Defense doesn't even understand their own case. Alyce tried to explain it from the stand but it went right over everyone's head.

Twenty years ago a therapist told me men express guilt as anger. It went right over my head. I had no idea what he was talking about.

But, that's the key. That is why domestic violence escalates. The more the man leads the double life, the more guilt he feels, the more guilt he feels, the more he acts it out as anger, the more he acts it out as anger, the more guilt he feels. IT'S LIKE A SNAKE EATING ITS TAIL.

That is why Alyce said on the stand--it is ok to feel anger, but it's what you do when you feel that emotion that is the problem. And, she pointed out that Travis anger, as demonstrated in the texts, was now over the top as RAGE, and not only that, but a rage which was not quickly abating.

There's a lot going on here, and nobody seems to be getting it, including the DT.

IMO

Myth: Abusers are violent because they can't control their anger or frustration.

Reality: Abusers use anger as an excuse to rationalize their abusive behavior; anger is not a cause of abuse, it is a conscious choice by the abuser. Typically, their violence is targeted to certain people at certain times and places...Abusers tend to choose their tactics strategically according to what is the most effective way to gain power and control.

http://www.law.arizona.edu/clinics/...ls/myths_and_realities_of_domestic_abuse1.pdf

Further, I would argue a great many people on this forum 'get' domestic violence in a major way and still cannot see themselves in Jodi - but many do see their abuser in her. Myself included.

 

[~Lyric~]

Good morning to you, too. It's been raining here in NYS- computer gets screwy because of the rain.

I'm going out now to pick up some ciggy's and Chinese food- chicken with broccoli, fried rice, egg roll- to prepare for the trial this afternoon.

:seeya:

I'll be hit n miss with the trial today! I will be with all of you tho in Spirit!!

 

[minor4th]

well, that's the debate...

The thing is that at no time that we know of did Travis take steps through legitimate means to keep her out of his life. And, three weeks before his death, he is carrying on hours of sex tapes with her and saying loving and flattering things to her.

Do the men you represent do that? Do they continue to have sex with the woman who is abusing them even though they are not married and living in separate homes and even separate states?

Do they refuse to take out restraining orders? Or to report violations to the police?

When did Travis decide that Jodi was a problem? Because I don't see him doing anything to protect himself from her.

IMO

A big resounding YES to every question you asked. The power of denial is so incredibly strong, and for men in these situations who are not accustomed to thinking of men as victims of abuse or as women as abusers -- the denial is even stronger.

Most of these men do not even realize they are victims of abuse until they have been out of the relationship a while and gain some perspective. They do not believe they are in danger, and it is extremely rare for a man to call the police to report abuse or to get a restraining order because they think they can handle it, because they are ashamed, because they have mixed feelings of love and fear, because they have been beat down and have bought into the messages delivered constantly by their partners -- that they're bad, selfish, abusive, worthless, etc.. Men also don't call the police because their abusive partners threaten to make false reports of rape and DV and child abuse against them and they fear they will be arrested - a legitimate fear, by the way.

 

[katydid23]

well, that's the debate...

The thing is that at no time that we know of did Travis take steps through legitimate means to keep her out of his life. And, three weeks before his death, he is carrying on hours of sex tapes with her and saying loving and flattering things to her.

Do the men you represent do that? Do they continue to have sex with the woman who is abusing them even though they are not married and living in separate homes and even separate states?

Do they refuse to take out restraining orders? Or to report violations to the police?

When did Travis decide that Jodi was a problem? Because I don't see him doing anything to protect himself from her.

IMO

I think you are conflating and confusing various elements. His final anger towards her was at the very end of May. He was murdered on June 4th. So it does not matter what he was doing 3 weeks earlier. In fact, that sex tape that SHE SECRETLY TAPED, might have been the reason he was ready to call it quits.

He had no reason to take out a restraining order--she lived thousands of miles away. He underestimated her rage.

 

[gauntlet]

The seal is up on WAT. :great:

 

[LambChop]

Well she has always interpreted the situation to fit her preconceived notions, so all of her experience was gained with a closed mind. Her experience with DV is little more than her confirming her biases against men, evidently.

I think when ALV back-peddled on her first "misspeak" she was in trouble. At the end with JW questioning her about the shooting taking place in the closet and the gun being placed by Jodi on the nightstand she went over the top and showed the jury her testimony was for sale and ALV was not interested in the truth.

 

[kscornfed]

Just saying
I truly believe nurmi, gave birth to the pedophilia story, It's his specialty. I just wonder how many families have been falsely accused because of his need to win at all costs and that's what this trial has been for them.

she certainly didn't do it by herself. i don't buy the 'she had a breakthrough' story samuels told AT ALL.

the defense does this: 'what can we ARGUE against the state's evidence?'

it doesn't have to be true. that's the prosecutor's job. so they came up with this because it's all they had left.

they'd been through: 1. she didn't do it, wasn't there. 2. she WAS there but some other people did it.

what's left? insanity? that won't work. she did too much to cover her tracks. so here we are. SELF DEFENSE, which is just as unbelievable as 1. and 2., but they had to go for it anyway.

 

[zoozoo]

BBM

THANK YOU. That was exactly what she was doing, imo. Trying to enrage him, and then her reply= ' Have a nice day.'

It was so disingenuous for the DV expert to pretend that Jodi said ' have a nice day' as a way to DE-ESCALATE. I call BS. That was a passive-aggressive way to upset him even more.

BBM. Notice in the recently publicized JA tweets she says something about flipping the bird being for NG and ends by telling NG to "have a nice day". The sarcasm and passive aggressive tone is SO obvious and confirms that she used this same expression to dig at Travis whenever she wanted to goad him. In true sociopathic form, if one was to call JA on this she would swear up and down that there was no sarcasm intended and she truly meant she wished NG and Travis would go on to have a nice day because she is just that forgiving and sweet a person.