trial day 50: REBUTTAL; #153

[MickyTwoShade]

Hey, Turn, I got it, lol! Sociopaths are not in the DSM-IV; BPD is. In simplistic terms though, they are very much the same. So, therefore, I would agree.

Sadly, BPD is a form of sociopathy/psychopathy, and is a debilitating and frightening dx.

Sociopathy is a lay term for Anti Social Personality Disorder... BPD is not a form of sociopathy.

 

[PPKik]

My interpretation of the tiger/bear question was that it was slightly "hostile" to Dr.D in the sense that it seemed rhetorical (i.e., "Trauma is trauma, why are you saying that it isn't?"). But I've said from the beginning that these juror questions are useless for reading the jury because 1) The questions are submitted only by some subset of jurors who self-select, and we have no way of knowing what percentage of jurors are represented in the questions and 2) The questions are further screened by the officers of the court. both factors contribute to a process that shapes the questions, both as a body and individually, in ways that preclude them from telling us anything meaningful about where "the jury" as a body is at. JMO

The comments at WS on this question seem to be mixed, and I have not read/heard any questions yet, so could you possibly clarify what you are saying about screening and "a process that shapes the questions"?

I am confused when you say "where the 'jury' as a body is at." Each juror has a vote. So if there is one juror who buys this fabricated, insulting self-defense garbage, I don't understand why these question are not indicative of the way certain a person is thinking. What is the "subset of jurors who self-select"? TIA

 

[popsicle]

If JA had used her IQ and became something in life, married and had children....what would her life be like??

A Missouri woman who manages hundreds of millions of dollars for her clients spent some $26,000 on private investigators seeking to make life miserable for the college student who broke up with her daughter two years ago.

Mom pleads guilty in Memphis to revenge stalking of daughter's ex-boyfriend

http://www.commercialappeal.com/news/2013/apr/12/financial-adviser-pleads-guilty-to-stalking-of/

 

[tlcya]

Quoting myself, guess I am getting desperate. Please someone answer my question or point me in the direction of the questions. PLEASE. No after dark or NG allowed at my house, bummer.

reviews are mixed on the juror questions. The majority of posters seem to feel, as do I, that the questions were good ones, showed the jury was paying attention. I did not pick up any snark or hostility in them. They asked her to clarify some points of her testimony. To me they seem to be giving her an opportunity to more fully answer questions than when she was cut off by JW with her "yes or no" impersonation of JM. There were very few juror questions as compared to the number posed to Dr. S and ALV defense experts.

There are some members who feel there was a bit of snark in one question relating to if you are traumatized by a tiger attack but claim it was a bear attack could you still indeed by traumatized. Obvious reference to JA and her lies about what took place the day of the murder. Murder/self defense ninjas/DV.

Overall, I think the questions were insightful, interested and showed the jury is paying attention.

Very telling to me is that some of the questions asked her (or gave her a chance) to elaborate on Dr. S and his testing, computing answers methods and how they are outside of the protocol demanded for unbiased evaluation.

Some members feel there may be at least one pro-defense leaning juror.

Most seem to feel that the question and Dr. D's answer were good.

 

[panthera]

I feel so at ease, I know she's been exposed and the truth has come out about her now. Juan has won his case. Kudos to him.

BBM

All her "dirty little secrets"...

 

[bznbear]

I know bad etiquette to bring my post over but did want some feedback as the thread closed.

It was interesting listening to a TH today. She said it's important to have the jury know the difference between PTSD and Borderline Personality Disorder.

Defendants with PTSD can be rehabilitated, but those with BPD can not be rehabilitated. They fall in the same line as Serial killers. That's why JW and the defense are fighting so hard against the Borderline Personality Disorder.

According to the TH's a jury is more inclined to go for a stiffer sentence when a defendant cant be rehabilitated.

It seems this is why JW was fighting so hard.

Thoughts ?

It's true, PTSD treatment is more varied, but there is now treatment for BPD, called dialectic therapy. It's not widely used, yet, but it should be, as it's about the only hope BPD sufferers have at this time.

It has been a lifesaver for my family.

 

[TartLemon]

Jodi's coming across as being inconvenienced by this trial as though it's just something else that will pass.

Makes me wonder what other egregious things she's done but never been held accountable.

 

[Truth Detector]

Anyone else think that JA stealing TA's ring is a huge deal?

And after this, JA even had the nerve to fabricate marriage proposals from TA that she rebuffed!

He wanted to put a ring on it, but she said no?

 

[hindsight2020]

Because your triggers would be different for one.

Yes, but both would cause trauma. Maybe, I am missing something or I just don't understand.

 

[Angelina Frost]

There is a pro Jodi juror. I know it. And to be honest, he/she doesn't sound very bright. They ask silly questions that validate their non sense opinions (Jodi killed Travis because she saw no way out even though she lived 1000 miles away and could have chosen not to see him) and ignore logic. Maybe once Juan is done it will be even clearer that this was premeditated. Hopefully this juror is quickly swayed by the much more intelligent jurors or even better they are left out. And hopefully a really bright and strong willed juror does make it. Ugh, I hate this jury lottery system. But I'm scared now.

At best, there is someone who may not be fully through the premeditation door yet. This is okay. That's the crux of deliberations.

Second, think about that statement for a second. "Pro Jodi." That would mean someone was in support of a person who stabbed an ex boyfriend 29 times, nearly decapitated him and shot him in the head. The term "Pro Jodi" and the crime I've described are mutually exclusive worlds, unless the juror is completely insane. After JM put in the time to voir dire these people, I don't think there is a chance of that.

I've got a pysch degree plus years and years of work in the entertainment industry, which allows me to get a real handle on subtext and the motivations of a wide range of people. I wouldn't say a word if I didn't believe it. I swear to you, this person is NOT "Pro Jodi." Willing to listen and include all possibilities? Absolutely.

Remember, they are a part of a group that will decide the fate of another human being. It could be death. Many don't take that responsibility lightly. Try to relax. All will work out in the end. :hug:

 

[moonshyne]

Just gotta say I loved it today when JW was trying to trip up the witness with emails or IM's and when Dr D asks to see them Wilmott wanders around for a good few minutes and unable find them, gives up and then gets REALLY snotty with Dr D (like it's HER fault that JW doesn't have her stuff organized) JW really lets her frustration show and instead of tripping up the witness, trips herself up and comes across looking incompetent.

[video=youtube;GS1rL9-Ydxc]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GS1rL9-Ydxc[/video]

It starts at 11:10 and the demeanor change in JW is unreal! She gets REALLY catty to the point of being completely unprofessional and it only gets worse as the witness continues to call her out on different points and I cannot decide who made JW look worse..the witness or JW herself!! LOL.

 

[nwmouse]

Jodi's coming across as being inconvenienced by this trial as though it's just something else that will pass.

Makes me wonder what other egregious things she's done but never been held accountable.

Yes, me too. How many other animals has she hurt/abused, and people has she hurt and never been found out? I cannot tell you how much disgust and horror I feel for this woman. The only thing I hope for is that she will not be able to harm any more living beings again.

 

[MeeBee]

Hey, Turn, I got it, lol! Sociopaths are not in the DSM-IV; BPD is. In simplistic terms though, they are very much the same. So, therefore, I would agree.

Sadly, BPD is a form of sociopathy/psychopathy, and is a debilitating and frightening dx.

Sociopathy is in the DSM. It's called anti social personality disorder now. BPD is NOT sociopathy.

 

[kscornfed]

I don't want to bag out Jeff Ashton, but watching Juan Martinez has made me see why the Casey case came back with a not guilty verdict, also Baez did a good job of shutting Casey down as far as communication went too. We didn't hear a peep from her after the first few conversations with her parents in jail.

I can't believe I am saying that, but there it is.

Words can't express what I feel towards Jose Baez. But he was a better attorney than this DT, IMO.

 

[Nali87]

I agree with this assessment. This question worries me as well. What difference does it make if a bear or a tiger attacked me, I'd be just as scared all the same, thus the outcome would be the same. MOO

I hope they focus on the simple fact that Jodi Arias is a proven liar and since she lied about the trauma, I'd disregard the results or of that tests or give them less weight since chances are she lied about everything she wrote down.

 

[gauntlet]

ya i hear you, just want to say that i don't think they are trying to make us believe she has it because of the murder, rather, that ptsd is her excuse for her constant lying and not remembering"fog" the most important parts that incriminate her ( i know she remembers, it's just a convenient excuse to forgive her memory and avoid her having to explain ) they want us to believe she got it from being abused and then, after $amuels got busted for basing his tests on lies, he added that it doesn't matter what the trauma was, the ptsd diagnosis would've came out the same, whatever is convenient to the defendant and her groupies

Yes exactly. I thought I'd added more to the post than that but forgot to hit enter so it's updated now. We still agree

 

[Softail]

I don't regularly watch Dr.Drew, but realize that his co-host is from TLC. I thought I recognized her.

Teresa Lynn Strasser (born June 8, 1970)[1] is an American writer and television personality known for hosting the first season of the home makeover show While You Were Out on TLC.

Teresa Strasser - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[LadyEdith]

I have a feeling this trial is going to be all about the closing arguments:
JM can move fast, and he is going to have to be clear and concise, about what we know, all the facts we have, and really breaking down all of the DT 'fogs, cant remembers, and scenario testimony.

JM is awesome at cross, but I think this jury is really going to want it all connected, and pointed out; especially since i still believe there will be a few that won't accept knife first. Based on TA size alone they will assume he overpowered her, which is why it will be vital that JM make them understand that that is exactly the reason we KNOW this was planned; there is no other way she would have walked away unscathed if she had not planned it very carefully. Did she make some mistakes in her escape plan, obviously, but we all can agree she succeeded at BRUTALLY killing him.

I am still in awe that she succeeded in overpowering and killing this man. I don't want to argue if she is smart or dumb, but it took some foresight to imagine and create a scenario where Travis was vulnerable with very little power, and she was in power.

I also marvel how sneaky and insidious she was, to gain entry as a friend, have sex (likely), all while knowing she are a black widow lying in wait, waiting for the opportunity to slaughter your friend and lover.

 

[Bernina]

When that question was asked, it sounded to me as if they were implying she was comparing apples to oranges and I didn't like that. lol

I like your explanation better.



And now I'm back to my original worry ... I thought the same thing. I am thinking this is one issue on which that particular juror and Juanderful/Dr. D are not seeing eye to eye.

I really think we have a juror with PTSD, because if you don't have PTSD, you would think the trauma would be the same.
If you take the apples and oranges approach, "A" is attacked by an apple, "A" claims it was an orange, "A" has triggers from apples juice NOT oranges, "A" becomes panicked around apple orchards but NOT orange groves, "A" get's nauseated by the smell of apple butter but puts orange marmalade on their toast.........
I hope that explains it better!

 

[Candy_Pickletoes]

Beginning at 15:05...JW is finishing a question to the witness, JM objects, Judge sustains objection, JW laughs at the ruling:

[video=youtube;9XS86_9QJGY]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9XS86_9QJGY[/video]

Probably one of the most unprofessional things I've ever seen from a trial attorney and I watched every minute of the Casey Anthony trial. Yep, that's right Baez, you've been outdone.

Speaking of Baez, I bet he's loving this case, takes the focus off of him being the epitome of sneaky defense attorneys and places it squarely on the backs of Wilmott and Nurmi.