Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[Pisto_lius]

I think he tailored his original affidavit around facts that were known at the time. He had to have his own screaming in his version so it would match what was heard by witnesses. So in his version he was screaming to Reeva. In the witness version he was screaming while fighting with Reeva. I thnk his entire affi was written in this manner.

BIB - Not *he* (OP) but his lawyers tailored the affidavit around the version OP told them and around the few facts that were known at the time.

I don't want to know how often OP's lawyers kicked oneself for creating this affidavit before the knowledge of relevant evidence. It was good enough for the bail application but now it seems they start to flap

 

[Feynman]

I think that he had his prosthetics on the entire time.

Like someone else said, I don't think they had ever prepared to go to sleep.

I find it harder to believe he would have had the upper-hand had he NOT had his prosthetics in. I don't see that he could have made Reeva feel so threatened that way. I think he had them in.

According to the below, even the prosecution has backed off the "prosthetics on" claim.

http://www.enca.com/south-africa/exclusive-documents-expose-prosecution-case-against-pistorius

 

[shane13]

Excerpted:
Well, there is another possibility: There are no inside lights on, it was pitch black in the bedroom (blinds, curtains closed), but not in the bathroom (open bathroom window, ambient light from outside).

Could be.
I've written on this myself and the next question arises; What could be the source of any alleged outside light. I was unable to ascertain the position of the (crescent) Moon at that time. And security lights probably would have been aimed downward. So it is an an open question I believe.

Of course ths matter assumes truth in his affidavit.

If an argument in the bedroom--as seems to have been overheard from circa 2 AM to 3 AM--led to him chasing her, as she fled to the bathroom, lights were probaly on in the bedroom while they were arguing for that hour, and he would have merrely flipped the switch in the bathroom before he started shooting. Alas he had fairly accurate aim, so plenty of light likely while he shot her 4 times. Likely more light than would have occurred from a dimly lit room.

We will see what unfolds and what the Pros alleges happened.

 

[shane13]

excerpted quote:
Clearly, OP expected the intruder to dive out of the toilet window!

Det Botha has said the window was too small for that. (Vertically challenged folks excluded.)

 

[Pisto_lius]

and the high security fence, but he felt safe enough to leave his balcony door open until the middle of the night when he felt the need to go retrieve a fan

BIB

And he felt safe enough to

- go to a shooting range in the middle of the night (when he can't sleep)

- take an afternoon nap in the car
http://instagram.com/p/U_MHYroR1_/
.
.

 

[shane13]

The Issue of

It's been leaked that the Pros has found that OP surfed sites that night (and also used car sites as well IIRC) on his mobile, from recent other MSM pieces.

http://www.news.com.au/world/oscar-...edia-reports-say/story-fndir2ev-1226835570382

it will be interesting to see just when that night this occurred, if the reports are true.

And recall that Reeva was killed while wearing outer shorts. All this indicating possibly
1. neither went to sleep that night
2. no physical intimacy between them that night (possibly ever.)
3. the great discrepancy between OP's friends and Reeva's family and friends as to how close they really were may finally be resolved at trial.

 

[Estelle]

I believe it was on CNN this past week-end, a synopsis of this case just prior to the trial starting. For the first time I heard Reeva was not dressed in night clothes. she was dressed in shorts and a top. It was alluded to that Reeva was dressed to leave, not sleeping in the bed. Also heard about her lunch with her previous boyfriend the day prior to the killing. He too is on the prosecution witness list. Waiting to hear what/if any calls or texts were made or attempted to be made from the phone/s in the toilet with Reeva.

That is HUGE. First of all, obviously arguing would explain the escalation. Secondly, it proves that Oscar was lying. Why would he lie? He says they were sleeping, he woke up to get the fans, etc.. No, they were not sleeping, according to the witness. It's her words against his, and you all are already uncovering other lies he has told (bail statement vs. trial). So on the one hand you have a witness who has no reason to lie, on the other a defendant who has already lied about other aspects of the night.

Could be.
I've written on this myself and the next question arises; What could be the source of any alleged outside light. I was unable to ascertain the position of the (crescent) Moon at that time. And security lights probably would have been aimed downward. So it is an an open question I believe.

Of course ths matter assumes truth in his affidavit.

If an argument in the bedroom--as seems to have been overheard from circa 2 AM to 3 AM--led to him chasing her, as she fled to the bathroom, lights were probaly on in the bedroom while they were arguing for that hour, and he would have merrely flipped the switch in the bathroom before he started shooting. Alas he had fairly accurate aim, so plenty of light likely while he shot her 4 times. Likely more light than would have occurred from a dimly lit room.

We will see what unfolds and what the Pros alleges happened.

There has been a lot of discussion about whether the lights were on or off. I can remember distinctly that the guy who owned the ladder said that when he woke up about 3am, he saw lights on at OP's house.

Can anyone remember his name? I thought it was CM but google has not found him for me.

Is he on the witness list?

Also did Estelle mention that she saw OP's lights were on? Google says she did but could not find it on links.

 

[fruity]

I can't find the link but I read somewhere that reeva was wearing oscar's clothes. Did anyone else read this too?

 

[Feynman]

Burger suggests mockery:

"Burger also said that the man she heard — before the sound of the gunfire — was calling for help, a piece of testimony that muddied the prosecution's narrative that Pistorius was the aggressor. Challenged by Roux, Burger speculated that perhaps the voice was that of Pistorius ridiculing Steenkamp's calls for help. 'Was it a mockery? I don't know. I'm not Mr. Pistorius,' she said."

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio..._calm_witness_cries_at_pistorius_murder_trial

 

[Estelle]

I can't find the link but I read somewhere that reeva was wearing oscar's clothes. Did anyone else read this too?

Near the end of the previous thread, I posted the link to this story.

 

[Estelle]

Burger suggests mockery:

"Burger also said that the man she heard — before the sound of the gunfire — was calling for help, a piece of testimony that muddied the prosecution's narrative that Pistorius was the aggressor. Challenged by Roux, Burger speculated that perhaps the voice was that of Pistorius ridiculing Steenkamp's calls for help. 'Was it a mockery? I don't know. I'm not Mr. Pistorius,' she said."

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio..._calm_witness_cries_at_pistorius_murder_trial

I think that was a brilliant remark by MB!

 

[shane13]

Burger suggests mockery:

"Burger also said that the man she heard — before the sound of the gunfire — was calling for help, a piece of testimony that muddied the prosecution's narrative that Pistorius was the aggressor. Challenged by Roux, Burger speculated that perhaps the voice was that of Pistorius ridiculing Steenkamp's calls for help. 'Was it a mockery? I don't know. I'm not Mr. Pistorius,' she said."

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio..._calm_witness_cries_at_pistorius_murder_trial

Thanks.
Fascinating speculation re the mockery of Reeva's screaming, suffering and desperation by OP.

It fits though with other incidents where OP displayed schadenfreude or sadism, such as scaring his car passenger while going 155 mph in the rain and tailgating as with the NY TImes reporter Sokolove, and evenso with Reeva in the car having to call her Mom after OP would not listen to her to slow down.

 

[shane13]

I think that was a brilliant remark by MB!

Agreed.

IMO, while the MSM has marched in lockstep as to the brilliance of Roux,the truth here is that every extra minute he has had this brave, intelligent woman, Dr Burger testifying, she is coming up with brilliant and damaging interpretations as to what really happened--and damaging Roux' client's chances.

 

[shane13]

Anyone know the current best estimate for the trial's duration.
I recall 2 weeks being said months ago. Now I gather it will be longer.

Anyone know what is now being claimed for the trial's duration?
TIA

 

[Mountain Misst]

an awful lot hinges on these witnesses who heard the arguing ,/screaming/ wailing...

the case is about OP's state of mind.. its no mystery who shot Reeva.. its no mystery how many times she was shot, it's no mystery where she was shot, its no mystery what she was shot with..

Its all about why she was shot.. OP's story has to be perfect, and unarguable to friends and enemies alike..

The fans.. 1 or 2?? big worry for Oscar...the catalyst that provoked him to arm himself, and then , in the dark , decide it was the toilet inside the bathroom that required his attention, line up and fire the gun, 1 2 3 4 times, then return to the bedroom, put on his prosthetics, open the blinds... realize Reeva is missing.. drop the gun and pick up from somewhere a cricket bat, he assumes the door is locked... we don't know if , before firing the gun he jiggled the door and found it locked, but he decides its locked and runs back to the toilet inside the bathroom and hammers at the door with the cricket bat.

And.. its assumed he was successful in unlocking, or breaking the lock of the toilet door with the cricket bat.. then runs to the phone, is told to assist Reeva, runs back and now enters the Toilet thru the broken door.. ( the trajectory of those shots is crucial ) scoops Reeva up and carries her downstairs...no small feat..

those fans... that bat.. the blinds... the dark and the light, legs on or off, the first noise he hears that propels him along this continuum ... it all has to work. It has to be repeatable.

One more bit to add that I can think of - so when did OP unlock the bedroom door in order to take Reeva downstairs. Oh hang on, he had to find the key to that door as well didn't he. So much to do before he even got to think about trying to save Reeva.

Much to-ing and fro-ing of bloodied shoe prints I should imagine. And before I forget, he admitted that he had cleaned himself up/washed as well before the paramedics arrived, or did he take a shower?

 

[MeeBee]

Burger suggests mockery:

"Burger also said that the man she heard — before the sound of the gunfire — was calling for help, a piece of testimony that muddied the prosecution's narrative that Pistorius was the aggressor. Challenged by Roux, Burger speculated that perhaps the voice was that of Pistorius ridiculing Steenkamp's calls for help. 'Was it a mockery? I don't know. I'm not Mr. Pistorius,' she said."

http://bostonherald.com/news_opinio..._calm_witness_cries_at_pistorius_murder_trial

Now that is a very interesting suggestion. I've been trying to figure out why Pistorius would be screaming help, as well. That makes sense to me. And how cruel.

 

[Peliman]

Good discussion

One thing I'm having trouble reconciling is why did she lock the bathroom door just to use the bathroom. Did she lock it to protect herself from harm or was it her regular practice? Something seems to be going on before the shots were fired, not put my finger on it all yet.

 

[gajonka]

Hypothetical:

Looks grim.

With a land filled with murders and break ins (45 ppl are murdered every day in SAF, and over 60% say they fear a home break) Oscar - who carries a gun, and admits to have been threatened before.

Listen, he would have planned this excuse for years prior. "I'll just say I thought it was an invasion, that I needed to protect us, me and REEVA!"

It makes no sense. M Burger- the sharp witness, who finally took to English, she exposed defendants lies. It was Valentines Day - a time to commit.

Unknowing what rejection of a beauty would bring... def did not know how to deal.
He did what he had planned.

Appears obvious.

NO ONE, I repeat, no one is that dim, as to not know if they are shooting someone they live with. He is asking for the ultimate pity. Its gross.

The Gajonka

 

[Peliman]

Hypothetically speaking I can see something like this happening. I'm remaining open to listen as I'm not sure about pre-meditation or heat of the moment. I'm listening and have become curious about the door for some reason.

 

[MeeBee]

Hypothetically speaking I can see something like this happening. I'm remaining open to listen as I'm not sure about pre-meditation or heat of the moment. I'm listening and have become curious about the door for some reason.

Based on testimony, I'm gonna say there was an altercation going on and Reeva locked herself in the bathroom to hide from him. Seems logical.