Trial Discussion Thread #1 - 14.03.03-06, Day 1-4

[zwiebel]

Dale next door to Charl heard nothing that night, but told Charl she and hubby had air-con in bedroom.

 

[TigerBalm]

Calling the witness Mr. Pistorius, good job Roux.

 

[zwiebel]

Roux just called the witness Mr Pistorius. Apologised.

 

[Trooper]

I'm just curious how you cannot see the discrepancies in their statements and their collaboration and embellishment since their police statements.

It's not just me and Roux saying they have misinterpreted - it could not have factually occurred in the new embellished manner they are not describing. If they heard screams after the shooting stopped, it could not have been Reeva, although it is quite clear that is what they believe.

I 'm sorry. I don't have the curiousity you do as to why you cant see the discrepancies between Oscars story and the parade of witnesses... I am just not that interested... you are curious about my thought processes, and that's ok.. I don't mind.. you are free to do so. Carry on.

 

[zwiebel]

Still apologising!

 

[Trooper]

Charl is simply not budging by one iota from his stated belief.. Roux has been all around the world trying to distract and denigrate his testimony.. but . Charl wades thru Roux's tactics and proceeds on.

 

[zwiebel]

Roux - 'You said WE were concerned about security'

Think he is trying to stress both witnesses thought this was a break in, so almost turn them into defence witnesses that Oscar was justified in what he did and thought that night.

 

[Trooper]

I cant see that concept standing up either, Zwiebel.. but of course,, he has to try it..

 

[zwiebel]

Adjournment granted for witness to find laptop notes.

 

[minor4th]

I 'm sorry. I don't have the curiousity you do as to why you cant see the discrepancies between Oscars story and the parade of witnesses... I am just not that interested... you are curious about my thought processes, and that's ok.. I don't mind.. you are free to do so. Carry on.

Oh, I do see problems with Oscar's statements, and I'll be commenting on any discrepancies or embellishments when he testifies as well.

 

[zwiebel]

It seems a little odd that lawyers don't already have copies of all these notes that witnesses made at the time.

 

[minor4th]

It seems a little odd that lawyers don't already have copies of all these notes that witnesses made at the time.

Indeed. They seem unprepared -- it's like they are conducting discovery in the middle of the trial

 

[zwiebel]

A couple of times...Roux seemed to work up to making a point, then just dropped it and started another line of questioning altogether. Is he losing himself or is this a strategy?

 

[minor4th]

A couple of times...Roux seemed to work up to making a point, then just dropped it and started another line of questioning altogether. Is he losing himself or is this a strategy?

I think he is just laying down pieces of the puzzle that he will put together in summary. He is good at getting the witnesses to take a strong position so he can contradict it with other evidence, thus undermining their testimony

 

[Trooper]

Oh, I do see problems with Oscar's statements, and I'll be commenting on any discrepancies or embellishments when he testifies as well.

well..that's nice , Minor, and I really look forward to your contribution.. meanwhile, I'll just carry on with my critique of Roux plain and necessary agenda to get his client off, which so far, requires one witness after another to redact and change their testimony to the Oscar story.. which,, so far...no witness has taken up that invitation of Roux's .. they, against all the repetitive and redundant questioning have , it seems to me, stuck to what they believe they heard..

witnesses can be so annoying that way....

 

[zwiebel]

Indeed. They seem unprepared -- it's like they are conducting discovery in the middle of the trial

Yes. It's fortunate in a way that this isn't a jury trial as it would be difficult to keep up.

ETA: I hope the judge can

 

[minor4th]

If I may add, minor.. how can you be seriously suggesting that Roux knows more than the witness..?? Roux wasn't there.. his story comes from Oscar.. correct?? of course, Roux has to challenge this witness and others on their testimony.. doesn't mean he knows more than they do.. he HOPES he can persuade the judge that he does, and that all these witnesses with testimony of hearing cries before the shots are mistaken, or misinterpreting.. but this is his job to do.. you , claiming to be an attorney should know that.. doesn't mean its true though.. means that Roux is doing the job he is collecting a fee for..nothing more than that.

I didn't say the witnesses were mistaken or misinterpreting hearing shouts or screams before the shots. I'm saying they could not have heard Reeva screaming after the shots ended, but that is the story they are sticking to. Doesn't that make you wonder if the female screams they heard before the shot may have been Oscar's screams or shouts, but were thought to be a female? I know your answer will be - no, you don't wonder. And I guess that is my issue - there are discrepancies that cannot be reconciled.

Yes, Roux knows more than each individual witness because he has the benefit of having all the evidence and all the police statements from all the witnesses -- as well as the autopsy findings.

 

[zwiebel]

I hope prosecution gets witness to go over what he saw and heard in his own bedroom that night - Oscar claims he never noticed Reeva wasn't in bed because it was 'pitch black'. Witness didn't seem to have any problem knowing his wife was beside him when he woke with a start.

 

[Trooper]

"Yes, Roux knows more than each individual witness because he has the benefit of having all the evidence and all the police statements from all the witnesses -- as well as the autopsy findings. "


no..Roux wasn't in the house or near the house of Oscar and didn't hear what the witnesses heard..that is unarguable.. the witnesses are testifying to what they heard.. not what Roux doesn't want them to hear, or what any other witness heard.. they, as witnesses do.. as you should know. are stating what they heard that night and nothing else.. then.. as you should know, again.. the judge will give a weighting to each witness statement.. she wont be weighing up what Roux knows.. he isn't a witness. THEY are.

 

[zwiebel]

Fundamental differences;

Witnesses heard what they thought were gunshots and presumed it was armed burglary

Oscar heard something? nothing? in his bathroom, didn't check it wasn't the other person in the home and presumed it was an armed burglary.