Trial Discussion Thread #10 - 14.03.19, Day 13

[zwiebel]

Wouldn't Reeva have heard Oscar approaching on his stumps? I can't imagine he could be stealth quiet.

Those long hands in your sig look creepily familiar. It's not JA is it, please?

 

[james83]

Maybe Reeva got into the bath shortly after arriving, and that gave OP time on his own to do some browsing? It could explain why Reeva had (probably) changed from jeans into shorts, but doesn't explain her still being in the same vest/tank top (if it was the same one she arrived in).

Reeva ate very late. If she had eaten an earlier, heavy dinner I'd have thought that would have been present in her system too. It makes me think that for most of the night they were lovemaking, snacking and then rowing.

The more we hear the more confused i get by this case, it's one hell of a puzzle.
So much that just doesn't ring true.
The trouble for me so far is Oscar's statement about what happened that night isn't very detailed, we need to see him being cross examined because all we have heard so far is arrived home, had dinner, yoga/watched t.v, went asleep.

 

[zwiebel]

The Irish betting company have been 'rapped' over that dreadful bet they offered on this trial, by the way. Quite what the 'rapping' involves other than a ponderous announcement, I don't know.

http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/n...-offering-money-off-if-he-walks-30103274.html

 

[Trooper]

Thank you both for the question and answer. I was wondering that myself.

these particular ladies have been there from the first day, singing singing singing.. always a core group which changes in number by the day.. The National Women something something...

the only time they stopped singing, was the day Oscar vomited for hours.. even then they sang until they themselves started to dry retch..

 

[steveml]

maybe 2 ipads in synch means it was definitely op using them.

It could be to provide clarification that they were both OP's iPads. One was an iPad 3 and one an iPad 2, so there's a possibility that he got a new one, and simply transferred the bookmarks/favourites from one to the other.

Although there can be tons of information on these devices, there's no proof who actually used them. The bookmarks and type of websites visited would give you a balance of probability to suggest if the user was male or female. I wonder if there is going to be further evidence regarding these, as it all went a bit flat in the court session?

 

[Trooper]

I put it to you. . that the best is yet to come, if I may be allowed that undignified phrase.. Nel has left himself loads of time to go thru with a fine tooth comb all the defence witnesses.. he has his exhibits tabled, , about 80% of them. some more to come of a highly significant nature .. it will be Roux's turn to present and produce his witnesses, let them tell their story, then step back and hear Nel extract from them probably even more damaging testimony in its peculiar way..

Oscar himself will be front and centre.. after all, he is he defendant, the accused.. in his bail statement he made 30% of it about his feelings for Reeva.. the love and all that.. this will be explored by the prosecutor. among so many other things..

all thru the trial, nels has been laying the foundation for the other charges against him, presenting prima facie evidence as well. in the police witnesses testimony.. Fresco, Samantha et al. the owners of Tasha restaurant... the gun supplier..

charges to which he has to answer to.

 

[kittychi]

Thank you both for the question and answer. I was wondering that myself.

Sorry to be OT here:

Its the African National Congress Women's League.

Every time Oscar is around, this group comes out to protest to end violence against women. I can't help but notice that they are always black women. I don't know if I have ever seen a white woman in their midst.

I have been curious about that since Day 1 last year.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I put it to you. . that the best is yet to come, if I may be allowed that undignified phrase.. Nel has left himself loads of time to go thru with a fine tooth comb all the defence witnesses.. he has his exhibits tabled, , about 80% of them. some more to come of a highly significant nature .. it will be Roux's turn to present and produce his witnesses, let them tell their story, then step back and hear Nel extract from them probably even more damaging testimony in its peculiar way..

Oscar himself will be front and centre.. after all, he is he defendant, the accused.. in his bail statement he made 30% of it about his feelings for Reeva.. the love and all that.. this will be explored by the prosecutor. among so many other things..

all thru the trial, nels has been laying the foundation for the other charges against him, presenting prima facie evidence as well. in the police witnesses testimony.. Fresco, Samantha et al. the owners of Tasha restaurant... the gun supplier..

charges to which he has to answer to.

I put it to you and very reluctantly: you are too optimistic, aren't you? :smile:

 

[Really?]

Ok, so if that's pretty much the State's case other than a few loose ends they want to pull together this weekend ...I'm not impressed that they have proved beyond a reasonable doubt that this was premeditated murder. And they really did nothing to address whether Oscar reasonably feared imminent harm - did they?

Yes they did....imo....the neighbors testimony to screaming/screams/arguing

:moo:

 

[Really?]

Not completely consistent unless Reeva peed standing up and facing the door....

Good point !!...ah.... the things we forget when painting a picture

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Maybe Reeva got into the bath shortly after arriving, and that gave OP time on his own to do some browsing? It could explain why Reeva had (probably) changed from jeans into shorts, but doesn't explain her still being in the same vest/tank top (if it was the same one she arrived in).

Reeva ate very late. If she had eaten an earlier, heavy dinner I'd have thought that would have been present in her system too. It makes me think that for most of the night they were lovemaking, snacking and then rowing.

At some point it was claimed, that there was a loud argument just after the arrival of both OP and Reeva, lasted 1 hour.

 

[zwiebel]

At some point it was claimed, that there was a loud argument just after the arrival of both OP and Reeva, lasted 1 hour.

I didn't know about that one. I only knew about something being heard about an hour before the shooting. When the people across the road were woken up first time, and the lady put the pillow over head to block out the noise?

 

[zwiebel]

So that row must have been around 7.30pm? But by 8pm, I think? security guards on patrol said all was quite in the house.

 

[SMK]

At some point it was claimed, that there was a loud argument just after the arrival of both OP and Reeva, lasted 1 hour.

So, if they were having this terrible argument, one can envision that OP took out his gun, and she fled into the bathroom and locked herself in to escape his wrath. He, being unable to control his fury, fired through the locked door (what kind of a burglar would lock himself into the toilet area anyway, rather than fleeing?)

A second witness, another of Pistorius' neighbors, told the court Tuesday she also was awoken by shouting on the night Steenkamp was killed. In brief testimony, Estelle van der Merwe said she heard loud voices that went on for about an hour and put a pillow over her head to try to get back to sleep. She said she heard four sounds but could not be sure what they were.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/05/world/africa/oscar-pistorius-trial-third-day/

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I'm confused. I always thought it was OP who claimed Reeva died in his arms. Although, the pathologist said she'd have only taken a few breaths after the head shot, so it's highly doubtful that she died anywhere other than the toilet floor, exactly where he shot her.

After the "blood spatter specialist" today I would think, she really didn't die before carried to the end of the stairs?

 

[Really?]

Oscar himself says he approached tha bathroom door yelling, I think....

Funny how (assuming premed)...or...killed her during a row.....he has incorporated the things neighbors had heard....."get out of my house".....directed at Reeva....but explained away by the intruder story. Hence the jeans flung out the window.

Mocking her help help help cries as his own well intentioned pleas for helping his beloved Reeva

fingers down her throat to me was a silencing tactic....not CPRish

etc etc

 

[steveml]

I don't know why it would make anyone laugh? That was the search term investigators missed in the computer forensics of Casey Anthony - whom, of course, was acquitted for the 2008 murder of her nearly 3 year old daughter Caylee. They'd only searched IE history, not Firefox, which came to light post-acquittal.

My point is - one never knows what could be obtained. So best to be thorough.

Quite correct regarding search history. There can be thousands of clues within this information, prior to the murder. Information that may substantiate Oscar's story, movements and relationship. Both the state and prosecution would be foolish not to look at this information.

Examples: Looking at Valentines present websites might sway one to believe the relationship was closer than portrayed. Looking at forums visited may lead to previously unknown contact information between Reeva and OP. Browsing dates and times can show that somebody was not driving a car or playing golf when they alleged they were.

There's potentially a wealth of information that can be used for and against the accused.

 

[steveml]

I'm confused regarding the original witness list as 107 people were listed. It seems as though Nel only needs a handful more. Surely the remainder can't all be defence witnesses?

 

[Deleted member 102539]

I didn't know about that one. I only knew about something being heard about an hour before the shooting. When the people across the road were woken up first time, and the lady put the pillow over head to block out the noise?

My search was successful:

The neighbours have already told the police about the shouting and screaming they heard from the Pistorius home on Wednesday, and in the early hours of Thursday.

At least one set of neighbours has told the police about other days and nights when they heard commotion coming from the athlete’s home.

Security guards were called to the house on Wednesday evening to tell the occupant that the noise was disturbing neighbours.

http://www.iol.co.za/news/crime-courts/i-saw-reeva-die-1.1471707#.Uym7HIWXZVs

 

[zwiebel]

I wonder why the security guards didn't mention that other, Wednesday, call out in their evidence?