Trial Discussion Thread #10 - 14.03.19, Day 13

[Trooper]

in comparison to the lady interpreter who is emphatically dutch german (Afrikaans ) accented , our Colonel is pure Hackney.

 

[LemonMousse]

in comparison to the lady interpreter who is emphatically dutch german (Afrikaans ) accented , our Colonel is pure Hackney.

I'm from South London (although not Hackney) and he doesn't sound anything like anyone I've ever met. Definitely a SA accent, IMO.

 

[AlwaysShocked]

How long does tea usually take?

 

[zwiebel]

minor4th, the post has gone way back now, but where you said you thought an instinctive reaction is to hold protective hands over one's head...I agree.

But, I think that is only instinctive when expecting a general wound or blow, that a person can see coming. If one is already wounded, I think the natural inclination is to clutch or protect/double over that wound, wherever it is. I'm thinking of the photo of Lee Harvey Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby here, his hand automatically crossing to protect his body where the bullet hit, within milliseconds.

I'm doing a Roux. All I'm trying to say is that I find it strange that, having being hit in the hip, Reeva sinks to the floor and puts her hands to her head?? How did she realise so quickly she had been hit by a bullet, and that another one was coming - and coincidentally put her hands up to protect the very part of her body where the next bullet hit?

If somebody shot me in the toilet while I was going to pee, even with a bang it would take me seconds after collapsing to work out what might have happened. It's just not the sort of thing anyone expects....

 

[james83]

minor4th, the post has gone way back now, but where you said you thought an instinctive reaction is to hold protective hands over one's head...I agree.

But, I think that is only instinctive when expecting a general wound or blow, that a person can see coming. If one is already wounded, I think the natural inclination is to clutch or protect/double over that wound, wherever it is. I'm thinking of the photo of Lee Harvey Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby here, his hand automatically crossing to protect his body where the bullet hit, within milliseconds.

I'm doing a Roux. All I'm trying to say is that I find it strange that, having being hit in the hip, Reeva sinks to the floor and puts her hands to her head?? How did she realise so quickly she had been hit by a bullet, and that another one was coming - and coincidentally put her hands up to protect the very part of her body where the next bullet hit?

If somebody shot me in the toilet while I was going to pee, even with a bang it would take me seconds after collapsing to work out what might have happened. It's just not the sort of thing anyone expects....

It's the lack of screaming that seems implausible to me.

 

[zwiebel]

Back.

Col D and Nel going through Reeva's wounds again.

 

[MeeBee]

minor4th, the post has gone way back now, but where you said you thought an instinctive reaction is to hold protective hands over one's head...I agree.

But, I think that is only instinctive when expecting a general wound or blow, that a person can see coming. If one is already wounded, I think the natural inclination is to clutch or protect/double over that wound, wherever it is. I'm thinking of the photo of Lee Harvey Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby here, his hand automatically crossing to protect his body where the bullet hit, within milliseconds.

I'm doing a Roux. All I'm trying to say is that I find it strange that, having being hit in the hip, Reeva sinks to the floor and puts her hands to her head?? How did she realise so quickly she had been hit by a bullet, and that another one was coming - and coincidentally put her hands up to protect the very part of her body where the next bullet hit?

If somebody shot me in the toilet while I was going to pee, even with a bang it would take me seconds after collapsing to work out what might have happened. It's just not the sort of thing anyone expects....

Is it possible the first shot blew out a bit of the panel? I have also had the idea that he could see her based on the accuracy of the bullet's trajectory, especially the one to the head. If he was blindly firing through the door, why would he aim downward?

 

[Trooper]

Oscar isn't involving himself in this blither. he has put his head in his hands and dropped his head below the back of bench in front..

 

[zwiebel]

ColD: Two wounds I'd have expected arterial spurting.

The arm...and I think he said hip before that?

 

[Trooper]

he is not going to look at these photos.. no

 

[minor4th]

minor4th, the post has gone way back now, but where you said you thought an instinctive reaction is to hold protective hands over one's head...I agree.

But, I think that is only instinctive when expecting a general wound or blow, that a person can see coming. If one is already wounded, I think the natural inclination is to clutch or protect/double over that wound, wherever it is. I'm thinking of the photo of Lee Harvey Oswald being shot by Jack Ruby here, his hand automatically crossing to protect his body where the bullet hit, within milliseconds.

I'm doing a Roux. All I'm trying to say is that I find it strange that, having being hit in the hip, Reeva sinks to the floor and puts her hands to her head?? How did she realise so quickly she had been hit by a bullet, and that another one was coming - and coincidentally put her hands up to protect the very part of her body where the next bullet hit?

If somebody shot me in the toilet while I was going to pee, even with a bang it would take me seconds after collapsing to work out what might have happened. It's just not the sort of thing anyone expects....

I think it's also an automatic reaction to sudden, very loud noises.

 

[Forensics]

Arterial spurting could have been caused by the wounds to the head and right arm.

 

[zwiebel]

Col D: There was clothing that was photographed at post mortem.

Now Nel asks about 'the hair sweep'.

Col D: You can see the volume of blood in the hair. That would be a good source for the constant dripping of blood down the stairwell.

 

[zwiebel]

Col D says there are fine blood splatter, tissue, broken hair on inside of toilet lid that's open and up, resting against tank.

 

[MeeBee]

That is a SA accent mixed with something else.

 

[zwiebel]

Nel asks what's significant about broken hair?

Col D: Indication deceased sustained a wound to her head around the toilet area.

He says it's not fallen hair- it's been forced out, broken. Nowhere else in room are there indications of head wound. 'She must have sustained the wound somewhere in front of the toilet'

 

[zwiebel]

Two heavy blood flows - in toilet and in front, on floor. He thinks this is from the arm(floor) and the toilet shows blood stream patterns from hair.

 

[sorrell skye]

Zwiebel - you were right when you speculated a day or so ago that Reeva's head was over/near the toilet bowl when OP shot her in the head.

These photos break my heart, knowing how terrified she was and knowing how much she suffered as she was shot and died.

 

[zwiebel]

He tested walls too. He didn't see any spurting like this higher up. 'There was some staining inside the door but I couldn't make a definite conclusion'

He did not see any footprints or transfer patterns on the floor of the toilet.

 

[Trooper]

her head coming into contact with the toilet seat. she receives a wound to her head around the toilet basin area..

broken hair embedded in the tissue.. this is pieces of hair. .not strands.. its been removed with force.. tangled with brain tissue, bone ,

this would indicate the head was in the surrounds of the toilet basin. her head follows the direction of the bullet.. she received the wound in front of the toilet seat..

blood on the floor. heavy blood flow. on the toilet seat. flowing over the seat.. consistent with continual bleeding consistent with the head shot. its a specific type of hair mark. a definite association between the seat, the bowl the head and the blood residue.

your inspection of the walls of the toilet, ??

any spurting high up? no.. I didn't see against the walls.. there ws staining inside the door..

were there any foot makes in blood INSIDE the toilet??

no. Icouldnt find any marks of steps in the toilet.. any object standing on a bloody surface.. its a specific stain, a contact and transference stain

bluint trauma??

no wounds that I could recognize as blunt trauma. the blunt force was applied to the blood source.. ??