Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[04009margaret]

...and I see RS as a classic enabler: "RS: ....I like to think I do you proud at these functions.....I was just being cordial while saying goodbye while you tried to leave...trying to help. Didn't think you would criticize me so loudly that others could hear.....I realize you get harrassed.....I'm trying to help"

So sad. She probably knew deep down that she was in just the type of relationship that she was lecturing against, but wanted to be with him anyways. For fame? Fun things to go to? To be able to say she dated OP?

:silenced:

.

In the documentary on her it said she was in an abusive relationship with a jockey for 3-4 years

 

[MeeBee]

Your relationship with your husband is your business.

Reeva is dead. OP killed her. I won't pretend that his abuse of her was the natural manner in which men behave until we women remind them that it's not okay.

I strongly disagree that it's a common thing to tell men that their behavior scares us. As far as I'm concerned, if I find myself telling my partner that his behavior scares me, then I need to reevaluate my relationship with him. I would also tell my daughters the same thing.

I will not make excuses for violent behavior, no matter which form that behavior expresses itself - verbal, emotional, or physical.

Regardless of the form of abuse, it's still abuse.

I disagree that it's not a common thing.

And I hope that wasn't to imply that my husband is abusive (because don't) or that it's not normal for men to get over the top angry every once in a while. The anger is never directed at me, fwiw. It's just a way to let them know their behavior was uncharacteristic and you don't like seeing them that way. It doesn't imply actual fear. It means it was scary to see them not acting like themselves.

 

[graceholl]

Ive watched a few of vid clips, grace.. now. I am Australian so its probably not significant if I say her accent was pleasant, and pleasing and south African. . she was, well spoken, in comparison with her peers..

I mean she didn't have a malfunction of speech or an impediment ..


one thing. it wasn't a Pretoria accent. which is , to my ears harsher than a Capetowner, ..

Oscar has ironed out his accent by about 30%..

Thanks Trooper.

I lived in Aus as a kid (Sydney) and had quite a thick Aussie accent for many years. Apparently you can still hear it in some words I say :blushing:

I did watch the YouTube video of Reeva on the gameshow (name of which escapes me) and now you say it, do remember her having a milder accent - lovely tone to her voice. Bless her.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Not sure if you are taking the piss or what!

It is a well known fact that jealous controlling abusers in relationships can be oh so extremely loving and gentle a lot of the time and oh so very very sorry after an abusive episode, and can promise oh so faithfully, cross their heart and hope to die, swear on their life, on their kids lives, on their parents lives, etc that they will never ever ever every do it again which is one of the reasons the abused stay with them until... !!!

It unfortunately only very rarely works and only if the abuser recognises in full and without exception that they have the problem, that it is entirely theirs without trying to excuse it with he/she also does/saysthis and he/she also does/says that, and gets lots and lots of serious professional help.

I think the point he was making is merely there is no proof YET he got violent or physical with her. Also, not all men who have a controlling or jealous nature move on to murder.

 

[Trooper]

I disagree that it's not a common thing.

And I hope that wasn't to imply that my husband is abusive (because don't) or that it's not normal for men to get over the top angry every once in a while. The anger is never directed at me, fwiw. It's just a way to let them know their behavior was uncharacteristic and you don't like seeing them that way. It doesn't imply actual fear. It means it was scary to see them not acting like themselves.

how does this apply to Reeva ?? <modsnip>

 

[sorrell skye]

I believe you could well be right - I wonder if her impending speech on domestic violence was a catalyst in a possible decision. She was supposed to give the speech on Valentine's Day.

ITA

Many years ago, I was in a relationship with an abusive man. He flew into a rage when he saw me reading "A Woman's Worth" by Marianne Williamson.

 

[Val1]

considering the death Reeva experienced, its worth working backwards though.. if she hadn't been found bleeding and slaughtered on Oscars hallway, with her blood dripping all down the stairs, it could be easy to blow this stuff off, .. but she didn't just carry on, did she. no. she was plugged 4 times with a black talon bullet..

And the person who admitted doing it said he was "mortified".

 

[HauntsForHope]

Published on Mar 24, 2014
Another state witness in the Oscar Pistorius murder trial has testified about the horrific screams and gunshots heard on February 14th last year..She says they came from the paralympian's home on the morning of Reeva Steenkamp's killing.... text messages about infidelity, jealousy and emotional abuse.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nn96chV-kx4&list=UU8yH-uI81UUtEMDsowQyx1g

 

[G.bng]

BIB. That's funny! When he fired four bullets at her, what do you think his intention was? And just because he was jealous or upset or angry or drunk or scared or felt vulnerable or whatever does not mean he can use those feelings to justify murder. Further, just because he is famous and she was pretty does not mean that he can intentionally kill Reeva and it not be viewed as what it was, murder. Premeditation can take days, months, years, or simply as in this case, minutes or seconds.

Hold on, I'm not saying he wouldn't be guilty of murder even if my scenario is correct which is only my conjecture anyway. It's just that I don't see that he "willfully" murdered her or planned to murder her beforehand, because it doesn't make sense to me like that while it does make sense to me that if he is an abuser and has a short fuse that he got in a rage which got out of hand and he shot with the intention of opening the door which would I believe still count as murder as far as I read SA law.

 

[MeeBee]

Hold on, I'm not saying he wouldn't be guilty of murder even if my scenario is correct which is only my conjecture anyway. It's just that I don't see that he "willfully" murdered her or planned to murder her beforehand, because it doesn't make sense to me like that while it does make sense to me that if he is an abuser and has a short fuse that he got in a rage which got out of hand and he shot with the intention of opening the door which would I believe still count as murder as far as I read SA law.

I think if the state's version is true a US jury would be apt to convict him of second degree murder, which is heat of passion.

 

[Trooper]

I think the point he was making is merely there is no proof YET he got violent or physical with her. Also, not all men who have a controlling or jealous nature move on to murder.

yes, this is possibly true ...but in this instance, this particular event, with these two particular people, this man DID move on to murder, and this woman is dead..

this entire case is about the exception to the rule. .

although, that isn't quite correct either, because 56 % of deaths of women in South Africa are the result of murder by their intimate partner..

so in fact.. in statistics,.. Oscar ISNT an exception to the rule. he is over the odds of probabilities.

and the US isn't far behind.. the highest cause of death of pregnant women in the usa, is murder by their intimate partner.

 

[graceholl]

I think the headline of this thread could do with updating. It currently reads:

'Did the South African Olympic track star murder his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp?'

...um, yes! Maybe it should say 'Did the South African Olympic track star murder his girlfriend Reeva Steenkamp with premeditation?' or something similar.

But that might just be me being picky.

 

[Viper]

Not all may have followed the JailBreak thing. Apple iPhones will not accept applications that are not authorized by Apple, many techie type people don't like that so they JailBreak their iPhones allowing them to install unauthorized applications and do other things that Apple doesn't want they to do. What the officer did was he JailBreaked the phone and installed a police forensic application that discovered information that OP would not know was still on the phone, including deleted material.

All that said, this is the first that I have heard of this and it is very exciting! If OPs legal team did not know of this tool and OP did delete material related to this trial, well... I'm just really happy to learn that they have the capability to retrieve those things, so that hopefully OPs secreting it away from the crime scene will not have lost important evidence.

BTW. From the very start of the officers testimony OP was doodling on his paper and every time I saw him he was doing the same. It was clear from the start that he did not like what the officer was going to tell the court. It's going to get much worse I'm sure.

 

[G.bng]

I disagree that it's not a common thing.

And I hope that wasn't to imply that my husband is abusive (because don't) or that it's not normal for men to get over the top angry every once in a while. The anger is never directed at me, fwiw. It's just a way to let them know their behavior was uncharacteristic and you don't like seeing them that way. It doesn't imply actual fear. It means it was scary to see them not acting like themselves.

See your point about uncharacteristic behaviour and your not liking to see them that way, but iirc Reeva was referring to how he was acting with her.

(hope the transcripts of the messages are published or someone does them as they would give much better understanding)

 

[BritsKate]

I think the point he was making is merely there is no proof YET he got violent or physical with her. Also, not all men who have a controlling or jealous nature move on to murder.

And not all men who commit intimate partner homicide have a history of physical violence precipitating the murder. Many don't.

Laci Rocha, Lori Hacking, Michelle Young, Nancy Cooper (and still so many more ) - all were murdered by their significant other without any precipitating physical abuse or overt violence.

 

[Trooper]

Not all may have followed the JailBreak thing. Apple iPhones will not accept applications that are not authorized by Apple, many techie type people don't like that so they JailBreak their iPhones allowing them to install unauthorized applications and do other things that Apple doesn't want they to do. What the officer did was he JailBreaked the phone and installed a police forensic application that discovered information that OP would not know was still on the phone, including deleted material.

All that said, this is the first that I have heard of this and it is very exciting! If OPs legal team did not know of this tool and OP did delete material related to this trial, well... I'm just really happy to learn that they have the capability to retrieve those things, so that hopefully OPs secreting it away from the crime scene will not have lost important evidence.

BTW. From the very start of the officers testimony OP was doodling on his paper and every time I saw him he was doing the same. It was clear from the start that he did not like what the officer was going to tell the court. It's going to get much worse I'm sure.

particularly the secret phone, viper.. I wonder who it was secret from?? .. interesting, ey?

not a smart guy, our Oscar.. all façade, .. all that meat and no potatoes.

 

[kaos]

We can't forget about his 'itchy trigger finger' either. Shot one off in a full restaurant, shot off another after being pulled over by police and went into full combat mode when the washing machine came on in his own house. There may not be direct evidence of murder but there is circumstantial evidence of manslaughter. Still a couple of days to go too for a possible surprise witness.

 

[Patagonia]

RS mentioned OP's "tantrums in front of people," suggesting a pattern of acting out in public. How odd for someone like OP whose endorsements require a stellar public image.

Yes, and it further points to his severe lack of self control, and in such a degree that even the need to maintain his public image wasn't enough to prevent him from acting out in public, in front of other people!

This I find important, because if he lacked self control in such degree, it is consistent with him loosing self-control on that night... even though, rationally, he had 'nothing to gain and everything to lose' by killing her! Because it was simply a matter of loosing control while consumed with rage, imo...

 

[HauntsForHope]

Cell phone evidence starts at 17:00

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbYB_uFKE9I&list=TLah1uX0gZqUVoZ4Ehv2u_U2ec99KJcCVv

35,000 page report
2,731 messages
i-message
whatsapp

 

[MeeBee]

particularly the secret phone, viper.. I wonder who it was secret from?? .. interesting, ey?

not a smart guy, our Oscar.. all façade, .. all that meat and no potatoes.

The phone wasn't secret. It was out of service and hadn't been used in months. There's probably not going to be anything particularly interesting or relevant.