Trial Discussion Thread #12 - 14.03.24, Day 14

[Gbtaketwo]

I am more interested in Mrs Stipp's evidence regarding TIME.

Her 3:02 (on a clock 3 to 4 minutes fast) is at odds with other time points... whichever "side" you are on.

I am reluctant to disregard evidence simply because it does not fit my hypothesis.. I am critical when others do that, but I do question that time (lets call it 3:00) for the first set of bangs.

Coincidentally I got into the habit yesterday of typing "3:00" when I meant "3:10"

3:10 would make more sense for her evidence too.
Think I will read through her exact testimony again to be more attentive over timescales . I was kind of distracted by the light issue .
What did you make of her testimony of the toilet being dimly lit ? But the bathroom light on .
I agree from an evidence point of view some things don't sit we'll but on The other hand they were very close , did have a view of the house and gave very detailed statement before there were lots of details published in the press.

 

[Dmacky]

I hardly got a chance to glance at the screen, as Mrs Stipp spoke so fast and OW was...ponderous and long winded. But I have seen lots of tweets that OP was crying and was comforted by his sis as soon as session ended. Nothing about vomit, thankfully.

Hi Zwie :wave:

BBM ~

In my opinion OP was crying for HIMSELF. He knew that what Reeva had said in that text did not sound good about HIM. That is all.....

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I agree. If there is evidence in these messages it should be exposed. But private conversations read out (badly) is not evidence of much at all. Reading out the "bad bits" from messages conceded to be 90% loving messages is pushing a false notion. Selective evidence is always questionable. A few arguments in 1000's pages of loving messages.

I was listening and thinking of Reeva's private messages being exposed...

A bit like OP's selective memory don't you think .
Part of today was more about the earlier shooting ?
It is sometimes easy to forget the case has other charges that need to be proved .

I think there will be some big revelations tomorrow.

 

[soozieqtips]

Well, evidence that he has a history of being physically abusive. Evidence that there was a fight that evening. Evidence of threats he has made to her or to past girlfriends. Something along those lines.

Or anything that really proves that his version is impossible.

Reeva was older than OP and older than OP's previous teenage girlfriends, so it's possible she was harder to 'control' than his exes. He doesn't have to have been physically abusive to past girlfriends in order for him to have killed Reeva intentionally. Where's your position on all the witnesses who say they heard a woman screaming? Do you still maintain it was OP screaming? Could there be any doubt about that if you concede that some of his affidavit is a lie?

 

[steveml]

I get what you're saying, but is there any part of the totality at this point that speaks to you. We have:

1. A man who admittedly shot at his girlfriend 4 times through a locked, closed door. Claims he thought it was an intruder because the window was open, heard a noise and it was pitch black.

2. Multiple witnesses who heard fearful, blood-curdling screams of a woman prior to hearing gunshots (which silenced the noise).

3. Two neighbors confirming the bathroom light was on the whole time

4. Remember, Oscar states it was quiet and dark the whole time. He says he yelled out to Reeva and to the supposed intruder to get out, call the police. But come on... that is not the same as a blood-curdling scream. And there was no reason to be screaming fearfully (so much so that you sound like a woman) BEFORE the door was broken down. According to him, he didn't know she was in there. The defense posturing about Oscar making 100% of the noises that night is laughable. Nice try, but laughable.

5. A Medical Examiner who states it would be almost impossible for her not to scream under the circumstances. And puts in to question the time they went to bed based on food in her stomach.

6. A ballistics expert who pretty concisely explained how she was likely shot in the hip first, and then the subsequent injuries - in different parties of the body, from different angles. If she was shot in the hip, do you honestly believe she would not have screamed.

7. The ear witnesses state that these screams from the female went on for minutes.

8. Now we have text messages that show that as early as 6 days prior, Oscar and Reeva had some nasty fights. She expressed (her words, not mine) being scared, him being nasty, him being jealous, him mocking and making fun of her in public, etc.

9. Oscar's ex-girlfriend testifying about him not only screaming at her but screaming at many other women in their lives at the time.

At what point does the totality mean something?

Does this honestly sound like a mistaken intruder? Can ALL of this be discounted?

I cannot abandon my human common sense.

That's fair enough.

No.3 Mr and Ms Stipps disagree with each other on this and both gave statements. Are we to believe either, or go with the majority and include the other neighbor? Or is there enough probable doubt for us to be uncertain?

 

[Really?]

OK, fair point. However, Reeva specifically mentioned he's had loads of girlfriends, surely he must have come across potential jealousy issues many many times before. Why Reeva? Why none of all his other girlfriends?

The reply can't just be 'she was the unlucky one'. What's the motive?

Like any good work of an operatic piece of music.....

...there is the beginning.....ah....the build up...the crescendo ....the end.

:jail:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

Darren is now married but not to Sam Greyvenstein. I can't type out personal info about him, but you can check out Twitter to research.

Sam Greyvenstein was Reeva's best friend and was dating Justin Devaris, the guy who runs Daytona Group. Not sure if they are still together or not.

And yes, Reeva and Darren had been friends for a long time.

That whole group was quite intermingled.

Thanks, you are right and I'm not fit in my mind and confused JD + DF. :blushing:

 

[lisasalinger]

I am totally right about men and curtains, by the way. At least, no-one has contradicted me yet.

Totally off topic (well not totally)... I once had a roommate whose boyfriend made curtains for her. Found her sewing machine in the closet and actually made her curtains. He was such a tool. That would have been a deal breaker for me. Lol

Sorry, just a bit of levity there. Men take note: don't sew curtains for your women

 

[Viper]

Ok. Although the gun wasn't fired at Sam. OP's showing off and clearly irresponsible.
Driving a car at speed is irresponsible - we accept OP is clearly irresponsible.
Phone messages with no threats. Suggestion of control - nothing in texts - not even a threat. OP must have called many others to account and not intentionally murdered them.


Why Reeva? What's the motive? How does the above show premeditated murder and not murder?

I hope there's more. I want the state to give me something that really convinces me.

I know you have a sense of humor so I hope you will laugh at this:

They gave you a body, the murder weapon, and the confessed murderer; what are you waiting for, a video captured in the bathroom of the actual murder taking place? :smile:

 

[steveml]

Reeva was older than OP and older than OP's previous teenage girlfriends, so it's possible she was harder to 'control' than his exes. He doesn't have to have been physically abusive to past girlfriends in order for him to have killed Reeva intentionally. Where's your position on all the witnesses who say they heard a woman screaming? Do you still maintain it was OP screaming? Could there be any doubt about that if you concede that some of his affidavit is a lie?

A bit confused with that. Is that a suggestion that all OP's previous girlfriends before Reeva were teenagers?

 

[screecher]

I think it's very very very likely that the root cause of Reeva being killed was jealousy.
JMO.

And OP realizing he was losing his power, control over Reeva.

 

[Rumpole]

Remember... Nel PROMISED to rest his case "early next week"... that's this week.... so what is "early"?

Tomorrow (tonight)?

Only one or two more tea breaks and Nel is done?

If not tomorrow, then it HAS to be by Wednesday to even sneak in as "early"

 

[Gavel Rash]

Well, well, well.....I think I feel a Gavel Rash coming on....

You have got to admire Nels composure and his listen and watch the slow motion train crash prosecution style. Makes for a great crescendo type script for a Reeveting TV series sponsored by Apple. Lol.

Can't wait to witness Oscars data manipulation of the evenings events. I must say I always find the criminal mind extremely amazing in its ability to completely believe their own reality and be able to perpetually lie, before, during and after an event, mind boggling! I can't lie straight in bed!

The fear that Reeva and many other women/girls face daily around the world from ego centric manipulative, abusive males is something, I personally believe, should be wiped permanently from our culture. The fact that Oscar has some obviously serious personality defect, perhaps from his psychological pain of being disabled and dealing with taunts and bullying throughout his life, is IMO to be given due, but only in regard to our understanding why he would snap like that. However, this alone is no excuse nor good or acceptable, reason to take another life.

 

[steveml]

I know you have a sense of humor so I hope you will laugh at this:

They gave you a body, the murder weapon, and the confessed murderer; what are you waiting for, a video captured in the bathroom of the actual murder taking place? :smile:

I need to see more doors!

:smile:

Seriously though, some of the theories have been great, I'm half-way through compiling the fiction novel. Just still trying to fit the ******* jeans in somewhere.

 

[lisasalinger]

That's fair enough.

No.3 Mr and Ms Stipps disagree with each other on this and both gave statements. Are we to believe either, or go with the majority and include the other neighbor? Or is there enough probable doubt for us to be uncertain?

If I am remembering correctly, I believe they both saw the main bathroom light on but they are at odds on the toilet room light. He says off but she says on (although it was dimmer than the main bathroom). I believe that's how I heard it.

If I heard it correctly, then I think the main bathroom light being on is the important point, as an intruder would likely not switch on a light when they busted in to your home. Plus, the bedroom would likely not be totally pitch black if there was some light emanating from the bathroom area.

Interestingly enough, the defense wants to show that the toilet room light was broken that night. It would be convenient because it surely looks bad that Reeva was in there with a locked door AND the light out. If they have proof, they just need to bring it to court and we'll see.

BTW, did you notice our blonde buddy making faces again? Her and the grey haired guy next to her looked like they were in pain last night during OW's cross.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

That's fair enough.

No.3 Mr and Ms Stipps disagree with each other on this and both gave statements. Are we to believe either, or go with the majority and include the other neighbor? Or is there enough probable doubt for us to be uncertain?

I thought Mr Stipp's said the bathroom light was on as well but didn't see the dim light in the toilet .

 

[Gbtaketwo]

I need to see more doors!

:smile:

Seriously though, some of the theories have been great, I'm half-way through compiling the fiction novel. Just still trying to fit the ******* jeans in somewhere.

Let me know when the book is published lol
I am not sure I would be flippant about the jeans just yet.....They might just come back and bite you :laugh: or me for that matter !!

 

[Insp.Dots]

As far as I know, Darren is the bf/fiance of Reeva's model-girlfriend SG. Reeva knew D longer than she knew OP.

He is a close friend but SG is with J Divaris, OP's friend. Correct she had known DF for years before OP.

 

[steveml]

If I am remembering correctly, I believe they both saw the main bathroom light on but they are at odds on the toilet room light. He says off but she says on (although it was dimmer than the main bathroom). I believe that's how I heard it.

If I heard it correctly, then I think the main bathroom light being on is the important point, as an intruder would likely not switch on a light when they busted in to your home. Plus, the bedroom would likely not be totally pitch black if there was some light emanating from the bathroom area.

Interestingly enough, the defense wants to show that the toilet room light was broken that night. It would be convenient because it surely looks bad that Reeva was in there with a locked door AND the light out. If they have proof, they just need to bring it to court and we'll see.

BTW, did you notice our blonde buddy making faces again? Her and the grey haired guy next to her looked like they were in pain last night during OW's cross.

You got me thinking about the lights a bit more now.

Yep, I think she has specific places written down during cross where she's supposed to show her absolute disgust. It's quite funny to watch. Her and the guy will have their own little side show soon. Imagine her getting the wrong soup in a restaurant? :furious:

 

[steveml]

I thought Mr Stipp's said the bathroom light was on as well but didn't see the dim light in the toilet .

Thanks. Having a look as I'm a bit curious about the lights now.