Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[zwiebel]

Oscar told reporters outside court 'it is a tough time. 'We have a lot of stuff ahead of us'.

https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexCrawfordSky

 

[steveml]

WOW!!

That would be great... could make a fortune pay-per-view.

Barry Roux V Juan Martinez

Haha. One of OJ's lawyers Robert Shapiro is heavily into boxing. He could be on the under-card with Gerrie Nel.

 

[Rumpole]

'Nel's cross of OP will be crux of case..'

http://www.news24.com/Multimedia/Vi...nation-of-Oscar-will-be-crux-of-case-20140324

I agree with that.

OP's testimony itself is critical.

 

[patCee]

Is it the prosecution that has set the trial process? Not sure what else the defence can do. The various witnesses and professionals involved have been cross examined plus time lines for phone calls etc. There may be sound tests for cricket bat/gunshots/screams, add character witnesses for OP and his relationship with RS. Other than professionals to undermine the initial police investigation, plus OP what more can the defence do.

 

[kittychi]

Didn't OP come back after some friend's realtor party he had been at most of the afternoon?

He'd probably already eaten what he was allowed for the day and after all the msg's back and forth between them, telling her she was welcome to stay the night, her offering to cook the day or so before and what he was allowed etc. that could certainly have started an argument. Especially after RS had commented on her facebook or some medium like that how important Valentine's supposedly was to OP and all her running around to get a nice gift together for him, then no evidence of any kind of gift for her from him.

And drank

 

[zwiebel]

There was a long, consoling text that Reeva sent OP. I think it was on Feb 14th? I only caught a tiny bit, but she was saying what a s''''' thing to happen and really bolstering him up and saying how worthwhile he was etc?

We never seemed to get to hear what had happened, and why he was upset. I thought that might have had some bearing. If anyone sees full transcripts of those msgs, can you post them please?

 

[zwiebel]

OP kissing Reeva on store cctv ten days before shooting. It is the video Nel was so annoyed about being sprung on his witness and demanded to know the 'basis' for it. He did not know about though because he mentioned youtube and Roux hadn't, so he must have known where it surfaced.

This is the video that Roux made dataman read out all the loving msgs for, that matched that day. Here is a still.
https://mobile.twitter.com/AlexCrawfordSky

 

[TorisMom003]

If Reeva was killed in the early morning hours of Feb 14, then the text about her consoling OP and cooking him dinner was on Feb 13.

I can't find that text, or any from today's trial, yet but I seem to recall that Reeva said something about OP needing and/or wanting to be consoled by friends and family.

If something was already wrong with OP, to the point that Reeva was concerned about not only herself but others consoling OP then it makes it easier to see that an argument later on would have pushed him over the edge, IMO.

Even in the "normal and loving" texts it still seems that Reeva was walking on eggshells with OP. Asking him if it was ok for her to wear a specific dress? Not normal unless she knew that if she wore the wrong thing it would set him off. The saying that she had plans with a friend (ex?), but could do it another day? Again not normal unless she knew that it could set him off. It makes no sense that she appears to always need his permission in not only what she wears but what she does, who she sees and what she cooks.

I still believe that the defense and OP have a hard uphill battle after the State has presented their case. To many things that they (OP) will have to try and explain away. It is also going to be very important for OP to take the stand and stick to his story. Whichever one he decides to finally go with, he needs to stick with it. The female screams intermixed with male voice is going to have to be explained. If the defense continues with the first shot hitting Reeva in the head, then the judge may look at the rest of their case as hot air and smoke blown to cause confusion.

MOO

 

[Cherry]

To me in the video OP seems to be the possessive type constantly pulling her into him. I don't see a loving couple at all; I see something else.

 

[screecher]

Good point.. it was before he saw her.

However, I still believe that he did the screaming that sounded like a woman. It certainly was not Reeva, since the evidence proves that the sounds of screaming were after she was dead (ish)... heart beating but brains blown out.

Sooo, you don't believe she screamed after first plug in her hip? Don't believe the ME? :facepalm:

 

[zwiebel]

At 3.20 am OP rang an ambulance
At 3.21am OP rang security
At 3.21 OP rang his own voicemail.

This is the call I couldn't figure out. Racing around calling security, relatives, ambulance, and in between he stops to check his voicemail? WTH for? He's just shot someone!

(I have missed out the seconds on those calls. They were not made simultaneously).

 

[TorisMom003]

To me in the video OP seems to be the possessive type constantly pulling her into him. I don't see a loving couple at all; I see something else.

This video is also of them in a store, out in public, with his "adoring fans" watching them. I would love to see video of them together without OP knowing that it was recorded or that anyone was watching them.

 

[TorisMom003]

At 3.20 am OP rang an ambulance
At 3.21am OP rang security
At 3.21 OP rang his own voicemail.

This is the call I couldn't figure out. Racing around calling security, relatives, ambulance, and in between he stops to check his voicemail? WTH for? He's just shot someone!

(I have missed out the seconds on those calls. They were not made simultaneously).

Before the call for an ambulance, OP called Stander (unsure of spelling) correct? OP also stated that he asked Stander to call for an ambulance. So then why, one minute later, would OP call for an ambulance himself? And why had the ambulance not arrived before Dr. Stipp left OP's house to go home if OP and Stander had both called for one? Why was it said again to call for an ambulance?

So we have three calls for an ambulance? Something isn't adding up here.

MOO

 

[zwiebel]

If Reeva was killed in the early morning hours of Feb 14, then the text about her consoling OP and cooking him dinner was on Feb 13.

I can't find that text, or any from today's trial, yet but I seem to recall that Reeva said something about OP needing and/or wanting to be consoled by friends and family.

If something was already wrong with OP, to the point that Reeva was concerned about not only herself but others consoling OP then it makes it easier to see that an argument later on would have pushed him over the edge, IMO.

Even in the "normal and loving" texts it still seems that Reeva was walking on eggshells with OP. Asking him if it was ok for her to wear a specific dress? Not normal unless she knew that if she wore the wrong thing it would set him off. The saying that she had plans with a friend (ex?), but could do it another day? Again not normal unless she knew that it could set him off. It makes no sense that she appears to always need his permission in not only what she wears but what she does, who she sees and what she cooks.

I still believe that the defense and OP have a hard uphill battle after the State has presented their case. To many things that they (OP) will have to try and explain away. It is also going to be very important for OP to take the stand and stick to his story. Whichever one he decides to finally go with, he needs to stick with it. The female screams intermixed with male voice is going to have to be explained. If the defense continues with the first shot hitting Reeva in the head, then the judge may look at the rest of their case as hot air and smoke blown to cause confusion.

MOO

That 'leopard' dress - or leopard print, I hope - I did notice Reeva mentioned how often she had worn it before. I think it may have been that celebrity thing people have to be careful about, or they find themselves on the front page of magazines with 'She wore this dress just last week!' headlines.

It seemed to me she might just have been checking with OP because he was more experienced with media appearances than her, or had more experts to advise him?

 

[TorisMom003]

At 3.20 am OP rang an ambulance
At 3.21am OP rang security
At 3.21 OP rang his own voicemail.

This is the call I couldn't figure out. Racing around calling security, relatives, ambulance, and in between he stops to check his voicemail? WTH for? He's just shot someone!

(I have missed out the seconds on those calls. They were not made simultaneously).

BBM

Why not? After all, when Dr. Stipp pronounced Reeva dead OP didn't bother to stay with the woman that he loved and shot by "accident". No, OP decided that would be a good time to go back upstairs, by himself, for whatever reason. I guess he hung around to make sure she was dead, since dead people don't talk, before he went to take care of whatever business there was left to tend to upstairs.

MOO

 

[TorisMom003]

That 'leopard' dress - or leopard print, I hope - I did notice Reeva mentioned how often she had worn it before. I think it may have been that celebrity thing people have to be careful about, or they find themselves on the front page of magazines with 'She wore this dress just last week!' headlines.

It seemed to me she might just have been checking with OP because he was more experienced with media appearances than her, or had more experts to advise him?

Reeva was a model. I do not accept that OP had more experience about not wearing the same thing more than once and being photographed in it as it could be the talk of the town. The asking if the dress was acceptable plus the other things add up for me and show that OP was indeed controlling and that Reeva was trying to keep him happy to keep his temper at bay.

MOO

 

[zwiebel]

OP's records do show he called and asked Johan Stander to call an ambulance first, at 3.19am, before calling one himself at 3.20.

So there were multiple calls to the service, but I have no idea why it took so long to arrive.

Amend that; OP's records show he called Stander, but do not indicate any of what was actually said of course.

 

[Mango33]

At 3.20 am OP rang an ambulance
At 3.21am OP rang security
At 3.21 OP rang his own voicemail.

This is the call I couldn't figure out. Racing around calling security, relatives, ambulance, and in between he stops to check his voicemail? WTH for? He's just shot someone!

(I have missed out the seconds on those calls. They were not made simultaneously).

I thought this was mentioned in cross examination but maybe not...but on the iphone the voicemail button is right next to keypad button which is right next to the contacts button. (those who have iphones know what I mean

If you are fumbling between your contacts and the keypad, it is pretty common to hit voice mail by mistake.

 

[DebinGA]

Reeva was a model. I do not accept that OP had more experience about not wearing the same thing more than once and being photographed in it as it could be the talk of the town. The asking if the dress was acceptable plus the other things add up for me and show that OP was indeed controlling and that Reeva was trying to keep him happy to keep his temper at bay.

MOO

RS's msg "I am not a stripper or HO" + his jealousy issues may indicate OP had told her she dressed like a trying to entice other men.

 

[zwiebel]

Reeva was a model. I do not accept that OP had more experience about not wearing the same thing more than once and being photographed in it as it could be the talk of the town. The asking if the dress was acceptable plus the other things add up for me and show that OP was indeed controlling and that Reeva was trying to keep him happy to keep his temper at bay.

MOO

You're probably right. I guess OP must have expressed some opinion about her clothes before, or she'd hardly have bothered asking. My own other half has so little interest in clothes he can't even recognise his own if they get mixed with someone else's. He also has trouble with colours. I wouldn't dream of mentioning my choice of clothing to him - he wouldn't have any idea or any opinion to offer and would think I'd gone mad.