Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[zwiebel]

I thought this was mentioned in cross examination but maybe not...but on the iphone the voicemail button is right next to keypad button which is right next to the contacts button. (those who have iphones know what I mean

If you are fumbling between your contacts and the keypad, it is pretty common to hit voice mail by mistake.

Ah! I thought they meant the second call to security was the mistake.

 

[nastasya]

OP's defense is precisely that?

I do not understand what you are objecting to?

My position is that I don't know if he is telling the truth or not.

The case presented by the State is mainly their contention that OP is lying. And (IMO) they failed to prove that beyond reasonable doubt.. in fact they failed well short of that standard.

The state does NOT have to prove OP is lying.

That would be an idiotic burden of proof. At no time in the history of criminal law was the state ever required to prove a defendant was lying. Once the state presents a prima facie case, the burden shifts to the defense.

 

[screecher]

I agree with that.

OP's testimony itself is critical.

BBM

Do you mean how well he's able to lie...hence, being convincing?

Because IMO, if he tells what really, really happened, the man is up **** creek without a paddle.

IMO, what's critical is the prosecutions cross.:drumroll:

 

[soozieqtips]

At 3.20 am OP rang an ambulance
At 3.21am OP rang security
At 3.21 OP rang his own voicemail.

This is the call I couldn't figure out. Racing around calling security, relatives, ambulance, and in between he stops to check his voicemail? WTH for? He's just shot someone!

(I have missed out the seconds on those calls. They were not made simultaneously).

Where's his call to Stander and Netcare. Are they from different phones? Also, I thought OP said he hadn't called an ambulance, but had asked Stander to call one.

ETA - okay, I see other people asked the same question and it's been kind of resolved :smile:

 

[zwiebel]

I am still wondering why OP's housekeeper and gardener were never called. They lived in the grounds of the house, surely they must have heard something?

 

[nastasya]

There is only ONE "reality"

It is not decided by a vote... even a unanimous vote

An illusion (an error in perception) can, and often is, "mis-seen" by EVERYBODY... even after knowing that they are perceiving something that is false.

IF the screams were heard by one person as a woman, despite it really being OP... it may well be a false impression perceived by everybody.

Or maybe it was a woman screaming because she was being attacked and about to be gunned down by a man who terrified her.

Just sayin'.

 

[Mango33]

Ah! I thought they meant the second call to security was the mistake.

Yes, that too. My understanding was that the FIRST call to security (according to the phone records) was the one that may have been a mistake b/c the call was really short.

 

[Interested Bystander]

At 3.20 am OP rang an ambulance
At 3.21am OP rang security
At 3.21 OP rang his own voicemail.

This is the call I couldn't figure out. Racing around calling security, relatives, ambulance, and in between he stops to check his voicemail? WTH for? He's just shot someone!

(I have missed out the seconds on those calls. They were not made simultaneously).

I have a feeling OPs call to Netcare only lasted 9 seconds but possibly I misheard. If I am correct, I am not sure there is enough time for them even to take down an address. Also, the telephone timings, do they show the time OP dialled, perhaps not getting through, or does it mean the timing starts from someone answering his call?

 

[Interested Bystander]

I am still wondering why OP's housekeeper and gardener were never called. They lived in the grounds of the house, surely they must have heard something?

I am cynical - money, money, money - and unexplained instant deafness.

 

[TorisMom003]

Feb 14 Internet connections OP's phone. Don't need to add two hrs. All silverlakes tower
01.48.48. Lasted 309 secs
03.18.45. Lasted 75 secs
03.19.03. OP made call to number named Johan, silverlakes.
03.20.17 Internet connection.

03.20.05 OP called ambulance. 66 secs.
03.21.22 Internet
03.21.53. Outgoing voice call to estate security
03.21.47. Outgoing call to voicemail ffor listening to his voicemails
03.22.05. Incoming call from security.
Then internet connection
03.55.02 Outgoing call to Justin Devaris. 123 secs.
Then internet connection
04.01.58 Outgoing call to Deco. (Andre Pistorius) NO. It was brother Carl. I misheard.

three outgoing calls to Biet
04.09.03
04.09.42
04.10.21

These calls lasted just seconds

04.11.05 Incoming call from that number

Then internet connections

THEN PHONE LEFT THAT AREA AT 8am that morning!

After call to Biet no other outgoing voice calls but there were other incoming calls that went to voicemail.

Bringing this post forward as it has the times of the calls and who was called when.

So is the ambulance service the same as Netcare? or whatever the name of that was that OP claimed to have called and they told him to bring Reeva to the hospital instead of waiting for an ambulance?

And if OP was really told that, why did he then make at least 2 or 3 calls after that instead of getting her into a car and to the hospital ASAP?

 

[Viper]

I am cynical - money, money, money - and unexplained instant deafness.

It was said that her quarters were in the front, and she slept near an outdoor water feature.

 

[Interested Bystander]

It was said that her quarters were in the front, and she slept near an outdoor water feature.

I don't think the housekeeper lives on the property but in a hut in/near the back of the garden. The gardener, I read, lived in the house in a back room. I will see if I can find more.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Originally Posted by zwiebel
Feb 14 Internet connections OP's phone. Don't need to add two hrs. All silverlakes tower
01.48.48. Lasted 309 secs
03.18.45. Lasted 75 secs
03.19.03. OP made call to number named Johan, silverlakes.
03.20.17 Internet connection.

03.20.05 OP called ambulance. 66 secs.
03.21.22 Internet
03.21.53. Outgoing voice call to estate security
03.21.47. Outgoing call to voicemail ffor listening to his voicemails
03.22.05. Incoming call from security.
Then internet connection
03.55.02 Outgoing call to Justin Devaris. 123 secs.
Then internet connection
04.01.58 Outgoing call to Deco. (Andre Pistorius) NO. It was brother Carl. I misheard.

three outgoing calls to Biet
04.09.03
04.09.42
04.10.21

These calls lasted just seconds

04.11.05 Incoming call from that number

Then internet connections

THEN PHONE LEFT THAT AREA AT 8am that morning!

After call to Biet no other outgoing voice calls but there were other incoming calls that went to voicemail.

Bringing this post forward as it has the times of the calls and who was called when.

So is the ambulance service the same as Netcare? or whatever the name of that was that OP claimed to have called and they told him to bring Reeva to the hospital instead of waiting for an ambulance?

And if OP was really told that, why did he then make at least 2 or 3 calls after that instead of getting her into a car and to the hospital ASAP?

Thank you for reposting that. I must have misheard as there appears not to be a call to Netcare for 9 seconds.

 

[DebinGA]

Do y'all think OP would likely help himself by testifying? I don't. His courtroom theatrics have been so over the top that I now see them as defense strategy contrived to affect the judge and allow Roux to claim "the incident" left OP too emotionally shattered to take the stand.

If OP does testify, I expect he'll amp-up his antics and add loud wailing and visible shaking to his repertoire.

 

[TorisMom003]

Is there an estimation as to how long it would take to call Netcare, explain the injuries Reeva has sustained, ask for an ambulance to be sent, give them the address where the ambulance is needed and listen to them tell a person (OP) that it would be best to put Reeva in a car and drive her to the hospital instead of waiting on an ambulance?

Also, do we have any nurses, doctors or other medical personnel on this thread that can explain if it is possible that when being requested for an ambulance, that upon hearing the injuries that Reeva had, that a medical professional would advise to move her into a car and drive to the hospital instead of waiting on an ambulance?

 

[Viper]

I don't think the housekeeper lives on the property but in a hut in/near the back of the garden. The gardener, I read, lived in the house in a back room. I will see if I can find more.

Ok, but I remember chasing that rabbit and what I posted is where it ended; the room is to the left on the front of the house with a small patio facing the neighbors front yard water feature. She was the furthest from OP that she could be and still be in the house IIRC.

 

[Mango33]

Bringing this post forward as it has the times of the calls and who was called when.

So is the ambulance service the same as Netcare? or whatever the name of that was that OP claimed to have called and they told him to bring Reeva to the hospital instead of waiting for an ambulance?

And if OP was really told that, why did he then make at least 2 or 3 calls after that instead of getting her into a car and to the hospital ASAP?

Are we sure he did make any more calls after netcare? Looking at the list, it doesn't seem so. The only phone activity is

One automatic connection by his phone to the internet, one mistake/buttdial to Baba, one mistaken call to voicemail (Moller said he believes it was a mistake) and then answering Baba's callback, all within 1 minute.

Seems to me he hung up with netcare and fumbled with the phone as he went to try to pick up RS.

 

[TorisMom003]

Are we sure he did make any more calls after netcare? Looking at the list, it doesn't seem so. The only phone activity is

One automatic connection by his phone to the internet, one mistake/buttdial to Baba, one mistaken call to voicemail (Moller said he believes it was a mistake) and then answering Baba's callback, all within 1 minute.

Seems to me he hung up with netcare and fumbled with the phone as he went to try to pick up RS.

Perhaps. What time did Dr. Stipp arrive at the house? What time did Stander arrive at the house? What time did the friend and his daughter arrive at the house?

ETA: I just did some checking. So if OP had his phone "accidentally" make those phone calls after his call to Netcare, then the phone was in his hand or on his person correct? So instead of immediately dropping the phone, so both hands are free to carry Reeva downstairs and not in a pocket of his shorts (if there are even any pockets in his shorts) that would make it awkward to bend over and pick Reeva up, he has the phone in his hand/on his person for at least 42 seconds after he ends the call with Netcare. I am not including the call from security to him in that time frame.

 

[Viper]

Do y'all think OP would likely help himself by testifying? I don't. His courtroom theatrics have been so over the top that I now see them as defense strategy contrived to affect the judge and allow Roux to claim "the incident" left OP too emotionally shattered to take the stand.

If OP does testify, I expect he'll amp-up his antics and add loud wailing and visible shaking to his repertoire.

IMO that is what this 2 day break is all about, the DT is pondering what to do about that. They know it would be best for him to take the stand, but he may not have done very well in the practice preparations and mock trial so???

 

[Viper]

Are we sure he did make any more calls after netcare? Looking at the list, it doesn't seem so. The only phone activity is

One automatic connection by his phone to the internet, one mistake/buttdial to Baba, one mistaken call to voicemail (Moller said he believes it was a mistake) and then answering Baba's callback, all within 1 minute.

Seems to me he hung up with netcare and fumbled with the phone as he went to try to pick up RS.

Yes there are more, Zwiebel was fantastic at posting the details as they were revealed this morning, InterestedBystander reposted them near the top this page - post #454.

The one call that is important is the one he made at about 1:48AM, a five minute call. That call coincides with when Reeva had a snack so again op lied in his affidavit hence the need to change his story about getting in bed at 10:00PM and calling it a day.