Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Val1]

Oh lol sorry...I would imagine she was killed after the volley of shots heard by burger just after 3 ( also heard by Mr babas colleague at the same time). Shots starting anywhere between 2.55-3.05 depending on witnesses clocks. 4 shots heard, and there is absolutely no dispute there were only 4 shots fired.

Only 4 shots into the toilet room, or 4 shots that whole night were agreed on? It was my understanding that the police could only confirm the 4 in the toilet room because of the cartridges they found, that doesn't mean there couldn't have been more, just that we can't consider them as evidence as having been used to murder RS.

I'm waiting to see if the bedroom door still has a role, or all the broken tiles in the bathroom in the corner by the toilet room, as well as the dented metal plate on the tiled tub and the broken window downstairs. So many questions... like did forensics do dna testing on the blood on the watch case, or the wall above the head board, or on the duvet and what were the results, did the air rifle have any evidence of having been shot that evening, how about the metal baseball bat, also, why were they both dressed if they had been sleeping in such heat that the paranoid OP left his patio doors open but his bedroom door locked, why was the bedroom door locked, was that normal...

Also, who told OP he could go wash up before he'd been photographed or tested, why did he go back upstairs to the crime scene before the police got there, why were all those people that were there allowed to not only stay as long as they did in the crime scene but weren't searched before they were allowed to leave... why in the world would you let the confessed killer's family go up into the bloody crime scene to collect anything, let alone have a safe opened up and let them walk out with possibly incriminating evidence...dang i hate loose ends.

 

[Carol70]

Not if there had already been reports that a witness had heard a man and woman just before everything went south... they probably thought that would cover it.

Really, after the news broke of the shooting, the stories floating around were astounding. By day 2, it was established that there had been a massive argument, furniture and trophies strewn about the house, alchol abuse, a smashed valentine present and Reeva had been raped and then bashed in the head with a cricket bat!!

I was surprised his affidavit was as descriptive as it was (I myself have never heard such a statement at bail with as much details) and concluded he gave that statement because he had nothing to hide. This is MY opinion!

 

[kittychi]

It is of course not just an issue of height when any amputee is on their own legs, though that is part of it. It's also one of speed, stability, agility, confidence etc. It's not reasonable IMO to not acknowledge this would be on his mind.

It is reasonable IF his story is true.

 

[minor4th]

Oh lol sorry...I would imagine she was killed after the volley of shots heard by burger just after 3 ( also heard by Mr babas colleague at the same time). Shots starting anywhere between 2.55-3.05 depending on witnesses clocks. 4 shots heard, and there is absolutely no dispute there were only 4 shots fired.

Burger didn't hear that first volley. Mr and Mrs Stipp did

 

[Carol70]

The problem with this theory is that there was nothing to perceive as threatening. There was a woman sharing his bedroom. He went outside. He came back in and heard the sounds of the woman in the bathroom.

Where is the perceived threat? Do you think OP never heard RS use his bathroom before?

Yes WE know that, OP didn't/ couldn't have known that during that minute/s of hearing a noise and shooting if we go by his statement.

Surely you can appreciate that maybe, just possibly, he didn't stand around scratching his head wondering what to do and if he was actually hearing what he thought he was hearing. He heard noise, grabbed gun, moving quickly, shouting and shot before even wondering wth was going on.

 

[Carol70]

Burger didn't hear that first volley. Mr and Mrs Stipp did

It would imagine that it could be concluded that all the witnesses heard the shots at the same time but the timing of clocks/watches with the various witnesses differs??

Thanks for all who rectify me if I make errors with testimony, I can only follow here and on twitter so its easy to get lost in translation!

 

[Carol70]

Only 4 shots into the toilet room, or 4 shots that whole night were agreed on? It was my understanding that the police could only confirm the 4 in the toilet room because of the cartridges they found, that doesn't mean there couldn't have been more, just that we can't consider them as evidence as having been used to murder RS.
//respect. snipped
.

This is not directed at you Val but I think it would be a complete waste of anyones time to try find any evidence at this stage that there was anything but 4 shots fired. The entire evening. That's trying to find evidence that's simply not there!

 

[Val1]

This is not directed at you Val but I think it would be a complete waste of anyones time to try find any evidence at this stage that there was anything but 4 shots fired. The entire evening. That's trying to find evidence that's simply not there!

Perhaps and since the prosecution has rested a futile exercise I'm sure, but like I said, I hate loose ends.. especially when there are so many pics that were submitted to the court that haven't been explained:
http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-11/

 

[lisasalinger]

Perhaps and since the prosecution has rested a futile exercise I'm sure, but like I said, I hate loose ends.. especially when there are so many pics that were submitted to the court that haven't been explained:
http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/03/20/oscar-pistorius-trial-day-11/

That's my blog. I am Juror 13

 

[Lyra500]

The witness testified her husband told her it was OP's voice. <modsnip> We don't "know" that Van der Merwe mis-identified hearing a woman scream as the voice of Pistorius.

She was not talking about the screaming at that point anyway. The screaming had stopped after what she heard as four shots. She was talking about loud crying after the shots, so the whole argument that we can infer that none of the witnesses heard a woman screaming is completely invalid.

I should have added in my opinion!

 

[Val1]

That's my blog. I am Juror 13

Cool! Thanks very much for all the pics, I can never seem to get a clear ss, even if we may never know what they all mean.:/

 

[Interested Bystander]

Does anybody know if the curtains were open when the police got there or were the curtains opened for the purpose of photographing the scene?

I was also thinking about the bathroom light that Roux says they can show wasn't working at the time and think the only way that could be proved would be some sort of paperwork detailing a faulty fitting. I don't know if Stander's company would be responsible for the upkeep of the properties on the estate but I'd doubt it.

OP, after he had killed RS, said that he shouted help from the bedroom balcony.

From that, one would assume the police found the doors open. I have to say I wonder whether his scream from the balcony was to cover the fact that the doors had never been closed. He made such a point of saying in his Affidavit that he closed the doors, the blinds and the curtains but did not include that he had to complete the reverse action in order to scream from the balcony. He had 5 days to concoct his alibi, it only being verified at 7.30am on the day of the Bail Hearing. I will go back and check his Affidavit and confirm or otherwise.

Apologies MY BAD he did say he slid the doors open but he did not include opening the blinds and curtains.

 

[steveml]

What makes this even worse IMO is the fact that Reeva had said to him in a text before that OP was "the one person I deserve protection from".

Double meaning?? Protection FROM him harming her. Or from him, protecting her from others??

When I heard this, I presumed it was him protecting her from him.

This type of sentence is called syntactic ambiguity, and occurs when a piece of text can be read in more than one way.

It's quite interesting, and shows a classic example of how most of us would probably select the preferred meaning to suit our desired outcome.

Well spotted Gryffindor. :thumb:

 

[Deleted member 102539]

But WHAT did he nip upstairs to do when Stipp arrived????

May be, OP went upstairs to immediately take his own life per gunshot in the bathroom, but then decided not to do it. May be, therefore the gun had been ready to fire, laid down on the towel. Instead of killing himself, he washed his hands and face and went downstairs?

Thank you! - to all WS' for great posts!!!
My program is working very sloooowly and baaaad, so I'm not able to thank you individually, sorry! :smile:

 

[Carol70]

That's my blog. I am Juror 13

Oh wow, great!! Just saw a load of pics I haven't seen yet!!
Will book mark!

 

[Carol70]

When I heard this, I presumed it was him protecting her from him.

This type of sentence is called syntactic ambiguity, and occurs when a piece of text can be read in more than one way.

It's quite interesting, and shows a classic example of how most of us would probably select the preferred meaning to suit our desired outcome.

Well spotted Gryffindor. :thumb:

That's so true, I read it as if anyone should be protecting Reeva, it should be OP protecting her from others>

 

[MeeBee]

That's so true, I read it as if anyone should be protecting Reeva, it should be OP protecting her from others>

There were so many things that were said that didn't have a clear meaning. She sometimes had a confusing way of writing. And there were things said that have caused people to go the worst possible place that didn't really read as bad to me. That's why I think it's so important not to make snap judgements or jump to conclusions. There's so much wild speculation going on based on little fact that it's crazy.

 

[Mango33]

There were so many things that were said that didn't have a clear meaning. She sometimes had a confusing way of writing. And there were things said that have caused people to go the worst possible place that didn't really read as bad to me. That's why I think it's so important not to make snap judgements or jump to conclusions. There so much wild speculation going on based on little fact that it's crazy.

I agree. I also feel that text message/ whatsapp type communication tends to be inherently difficult to understand without the greater context known to the writers. it is typed out on a phone or tablet and often has more stream of consciousness type sentences. I felt that the texts we have seen so far could be interpreted several ways, depending on the context you imagine.

 

[Carol70]

There were so many things that were said that didn't have a clear meaning. She sometimes had a confusing way of writing. And there were things said that have caused people to go the worst possible place that didn't really read as bad to me. That's why I think it's so important not to make snap judgements or jump to conclusions. There so much wild speculation going on based on little fact that it's crazy.

Yep, that's true..also, south Africans have their own version of the English language..if someone tells you they are coming "just now", could mean anything from now until next week haha

 

[Gryffindor]

I don't think the rubber handle has any bearing...not all bats have rubber handles and I dont think his bat was one that was actually used for cricket since it had a few autographs of famous cricketers.

They removed the rubber handle covering for forensics testing x