Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Really?]

It depends on the context of the question. She could be merely asking for his opinion, not his permission. There is a big difference here.
Maybe Reeva was like a lot of women when it comes to animal print clothes, it can be dodgy. I know women who have never worn animal print and who never will, because they believe it can look cheap and nasty. Many women are aware of this and are reluctant to wear it. Not that Reeva would have looked cheap and nasty in anything she wore, but she would be aware of other peoples opinion of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by seattlechiquita
From CNN's article on today's proceedings: http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/25/world/...storius-trial/



From seattlechiquita:

dafuq?!?!? ASKED HIM if she could wear this or that? What kind of crazy controlling relationship was this?


Thank you sooooo much Weeva.......I was just going to look for this post from SC....I wanted to quote it myself........I love it.........I am still laughing now........hours after I first read it ......this post is spot on ......sums it up .......my reaction as well.

 

[Interested Bystander]

All due respect, if that is indeed the dress which it appears to be, I don't blame her for asking OP if it would be ok to wear it to a formal function where they would more than likely be photographed together!

What does surprise me a little is that he seems very happy that she wears a dress that, IMO, lacks decorum. Is that how he wants her to be perceived? Maybe I am a bit old fashioned but putting one's body on display is a bit tasteless. I would prefer to be known for my good works, intelligence etc, and not for wearing what we would call in the UK a Page 3 dress. Page 3 being the page in a UK rag that shows scantily or provocatively dressed women.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

That's my blog. I am Juror 13

Have just been and had a look at the photo's on your blog and feel quite sick . I hadn't fully comprehended the horror in that house. I had wild theories before seeing a lot of them but now my mind has gone into overdrive thinking how much I believe Reeva may have suffered. I think that she may not necessarily have been shot and killed at the same time. I have a strong feeling she was maybe assaulted shot and injured and then shot again fatally . I know this may sound irrational to some but I do think some of the witness testimony points to this( two sets of shots ) as well as the physical evidence in the house.How do you stand on this ?
Also I just cannot understand why more hasn't been made of all the damage around the house .
Even if the staff have confirmed to the prosecution that lots of it was done before the night of the fatal shooting then it must surely be proof of person having a violent temper.
The damaged area's do not look like they could have been damaged accidentally by anyone .Why would the prosecution ignore all these things ? Again your thoughts
The other thing that has struck me this morning about OP 's version of events is that I just don't see how he could have failed to see Reeva walking to the bathroom. He states he went out onto the balcony to pick up a fan whilst Reeva must have gone to the toilet . The balcony is tiny only 1.4m wide by about 4.5m wide meaning he had very little distance to walk and pick up a fan .He would have turned immediately the second he picked it up to take it back inside and as the curtains were open or partly open at this point he couldn't have failed to notice Reeva walking towards the toilet . I don't believe she could have had time to thrown the covers back ,swing round stand up and walk round the bed ,through the bedroom and then through the dressing area in the time it would have taken him to grab a fan even if I were to say she got up the second he stepped out on the balcony .from the balcony door he came back through he would have had a clear view of the bedroom and dressing room even if it was still fairly dark outside. For his version to be true she would have had to have got up walk approx 12 metres to the toilet closed and locked the door before he got back inside from picking up a fan when he was already outside on his tiny 1.4m balcony .
Can't believe the prosecution haven't introduced a re enactment of this .
Have added room plan . Reeva was supposed to be on the right hand side of the bed nearest the balcony doors not on the left .
Just thought I would also add that another reason that I think he may well have shot twice is the fact that one of the neighbours testified that in the hour before the shooting they had heard banging (not gun shots )therefore it could be that he had split the door then but not pulled the panels out out of the door which he subsequently shot through and I don't think Mr stipp's reported more noise after he heard him OP shouting for help on the balcony? OP himself admits that he did this before breaking the door down.

TIA

 

[MeeBee]

All due respect, if that is indeed the dress which it appears to be, I don't blame her for asking OP if it would be ok to wear it to a formal function where they would more than likely be photographed together!

Well, I tend to think leopard can look tacky or inappropriate at formal events. That's what I thought when I first read the text, she was asking his opinion on whether the dress would be alright. And if he told her it might not be right for the occasion, there's nothing wrong with that. I am definitely one of those women, as weeva mentioned, who've never worn or liked animal prints at all because I think it looks tacky. This isn't a knock on women who like them, it's just a preference. So it wasn't odd to me that she asked if she should wear that dress to the event.

 

[kaos]

He went towards the danger not away from it.

IMO under SA law the questions will be whether that was a reasonable response. Then whether it was a reasonable response to shoot blind 4 times into a door and whether it was reasonable to assume it was an intruder, and whether it foreseeable that shooting 4 times through a door knowing a person was on the other side could possibly cause death.

I'd also add to that his gun being loaded with black talon bullets and not ordinary standard ones.

Sorry i just don't see these mitigating circumstances that some speak of.
In his own words He chose not to wake his girlfriend and escape downstairs, he chose not to stand his ground, he chose not to put on his prosthesis but to go into the dark on his stumps, he chose not to identify who was in the toilet, he chose to fire 4 times instead of 1.
there are no mitigating circumstances.

Thinking about this too and why wouldn't you wake your partner? As presumably if it was an intruder, then her life would be in danger too if they also had a gun and you'd want your partner as far away from any trouble as possible.

 

[kaos]

Well, I tend to think leopard can look tacky or inappropriate at formal events. That's what I thought when I first read the text, she was asking his opinion on whether the dress would be alright. And if he told her it might not be right for the occasion, there's nothing wrong with that. I am definitely one of those women, as weeva mentioned, who've never worn or liked animal prints at all because I think it looks tacky. This isn't a knock on women who like them, it's just a preference. So it wasn't odd to me that she asked if she should wear that dress to the event.

There was a picture of her on Sky News this morning with a leopard print dress on and it didn't look the same as the one in the post and actually looked quite nice on her.

Looks like I was wrong and could have been the same one. They both appear to have the same black straps.

It can be seen here @ 2.07 into the video http://news.sky.com/story/1231424/pistorius-trial-hears-messages-from-baba

 

[james83]

I'd also add to that his gun being loaded with black talon bullets and not ordinary standard ones.



Thinking about this too and why wouldn't you wake your partner? As presumably if it was an intruder, then her life would be in danger too if they also had a gun and you'd want your partner as far away from any trouble as possible.

Exactly, one of the lines he used was i had to protect Reeva, yet in his story he charges off on his stumps with his "limited mobility" into the dark, if he would have been overpowered/killed, Reeva would have been totally exposed, nothing in his story makes any sense what so ever.

 

[james83]

He went towards the danger not away from it.

IMO under SA law the questions will be whether that was a reasonable response. Then whether it was a reasonable response to shoot blind 4 times into a door and whether it was reasonable to assume it was an intruder, and whether it foreseeable that shooting 4 times through a door knowing a person was on the other side could possibly cause death.

Yep, and this is why for me Sean Rens(the firearms dealer's) Testimony was the most damning of all for Pistorius.

 

[Carol70]

What does surprise me a little is that he seems very happy that she wears a dress that, IMO, lacks decorum. Is that how he wants her to be perceived? Maybe I am a bit old fashioned but putting one's body on display is a bit tasteless. I would prefer to be known for my good works, intelligence etc, and not for wearing what we would call in the UK a Page 3 dress. Page 3 being the page in a UK rag that shows scantily or provocatively dressed women.

Yep I agree, and looks like she actually wore the dress to the text message engagement party that OP ruined after all! I wonder if that was one of the private functions she mentioned.

http://instagram.com/p/TQpebxwPTX/#

 

[steveml]

So what's with the Avatar change? Are you trying to tell us that you have been posting as two different characters.

I've been rumbled. :smile:

I struggle to post as one character, never mind two. It'd be like arguing with yourself, and then catching yourself out lol. :scared:

I had to use my background pic at first as avatar wasn't working. Sorted now and first avatar was just a tester.

It's good you noticed - shows you don't miss a trick. :thumb:

 

[MeeBee]

I also found A video of Reeva in a leopard dress at the bottom of this link.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-MURDER-model-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

She does look lovely but I can see how it might not be appropriate for certain events.

 

[Insp.Dots]

Why are you intentionally misstating the facts?

Didn't Mrs Van Der Merwe herself say herself that her husband corrected what she said she heard and it was in his opinion Oscar?

 

[Really?]

And all of this without OP hearing any noises. No noises of a body falling to the floor nor the clatter of it crashing onto the magazine rack, no thud as the head falls on the toilet seat, no moans, grunts, gurgles, thuds or splats. So unless OP testifies between vomits and howls either that he did hear noises and describes them in full, that would leave his defence with a somewhat noisy but invisible intruder/burglar (he heard a window latch from the bedroom and noises in the loo when he entered the bathroom) but a completely silent falling and crashing agonising Reeva. Just not credible.

Snipped by me.....

I love this post.....very informative and well thought out. I have a question about OP hearing anything during or after the shots. I ask this because previous posts have described dbs levels of a 9mm......adding an enclosed marble tiled (I'm guessing about the material of the tiles) room.....
any thought on ringing ears?

 

[Carol70]

I don't know why but its the first time Ive looked properly at her instagram account...some interesting pics, she was very beautiful. I see she also spent a lot of time at Tasha's (the gun shooting restaurant). Im guessing that the owners knew them very well, she even got gift vouchers from the owner for her birthday and lots of different pictures of her there are different times.

 

[MeeBee]

You can see the dress in the video here. Scroll right down. She was such a lovely girl she did not need to do this. She seemed to be going down the glamour girl road.

She had a brain, was beautiful and could have done such good works. I will stop there because I am a bit uncomfortable about posting my feelings when the poor girl is dead.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...-MURDER-model-girlfriend-Reeva-Steenkamp.html

She was an incredibly beautiful woman. What a light about her!. It's just such a horrible, tragic thing.

 

[Carol70]

Snipped by me.....

I love this post.....very informative and well thought out. I have a question about OP hearing anything during or after the shots. I ask this because previous posts have described dbs levels of a 9mm......adding an enclosed marble tiled (I'm guessing about the material of the tiles) room.....
any thought on ringing ears?

Thanks, Ive wondered about this too...is it at ALL possible she did maybe shout out but with the volley of shots, OP couldn't hear or didn't realize it was her?

 

[MeeBee]

Thanks, Ive wondered about this too...is it at ALL possible she did maybe shout out but with the volley of shots, OP couldn't hear or didn't realize it was her?

The other day we were discussing decibel levels and such and found that the db of a gun fired is at a level that can cause great pain and damage no matter how long the exposure. It's possible that fired in an enclosed space that reverberates sound, the gunshots left OP temporarily deafened or affected his hearing and he couldn't hear her scream if she did.

ETA: here's the chart I found:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

 

[Interested Bystander]

The other day we were discussing decibel levels and such and found that the db of a gun fired is at a level that can cause great pain and damage no matter how long the exposure. It's possible that fired in an enclosed space that reverberates sound, the gunshots left OP temporarily deafened or affected his hearing and he couldn't hear her scream if she did.

ETA: here's the chart I found:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

The noise must have been horrendous in that bathroom.

 

[james83]

For Oscar's story to work, he needed to be running around screaming like a woman between gunshots and bat sounds(before he discovered Reeva).
I personally question whether a Man can scream like a woman at all, let alone to the decibel level required to be heard at the burger's house.
Personally i still say a man's scream is more of a roar and find this scenario unlikely.
If you listen to Oscar's speaking voice, i find it very hard to make the jump that he screams like a woman. JMO.

 

[james83]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5aGSHKaiWb4

Honest opinions, can you imagine a man with his voice screaming like a girl?.
for me i just can't imagine it.