Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Interested Bystander]

She was an incredibly beautiful woman. What a light about her!. It's just such a horrible, tragic thing.

I have removed my post as I realised that the link has already been posted. I cannot keep up with these speedy posters :floorlaugh:.

 

[Carol70]

The other day we were discussing decibel levels and such and found that the db of a gun fired is at a level that can cause great pain and damage no matter how long the exposure. It's possible that fired in an enclosed space that reverberates sound, the gunshots left OP temporarily deafened or affected his hearing and he couldn't hear her scream if she did.

ETA: here's the chart I found:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

Thanks, that's very interesting!!

 

[Cherwell]

Deleted - already covered by earlier posters.

 

[Cherwell]

Deleted. double post

 

[james83]

Does anyone else find it ludicrous that the only man who knows exactly what happened that night doesn't have to testify if he or his team don't want him to?, surely it can't be right that ordinary people have taken the stand about something that's nothing to do with them and get put through hell yet it's not mandatory for him to have to do it, totally wrong.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Exactly, one of the lines he used was i had to protect Reeva, yet in his story he charges off on his stumps with his "limited mobility" into the dark, if he would have been overpowered/killed, Reeva would have been totally exposed, nothing in his story makes any sense what so ever.

And according to judge Judy if it doesn't make any sense then it probably isn't true lol

I really do dread to think what might really have happened that night and feel so sad for poor Reeva loosing her life .

 

[steveml]

For Oscar's story to work, he needed to be running around screaming like a woman between gunshots and bat sounds(before he discovered Reeva).
I personally question whether a Man can scream like a woman at all, let alone to the decibel level required to be heard at the burger's house.
Personally i still say a man's scream is more of a roar and find this scenario unlikely.
If you listen to Oscar's speaking voice, i find it very hard to make the jump that he screams like a woman. JMO.

If a man can sound like that, it cannot be denied that Michelle Burger heard it.

She either can hear from her house or she can't. Otherwise her testimony is inaccurate.

In her testimony she says she heard OP shout help help help, therefore she would hear a scream. It can't possibly work both ways.

 

[Mango33]

Does anyone else find it ludicrous that the only man who knows exactly what happened that night doesn't have to testify if he or his team don't want him to?, surely it can't be right that ordinary people have taken the stand about something that's nothing to do with them and get put through hell yet it's not mandatory for him to have to do it, totally wrong.

The right to remain silent is a standard and ingrained legal right in most of the countries we posters come from (US, Germany, South Africa, Australia etc).

Personally I would feel it much more likely we would get truthful testimony from an accused who chooses to testify voluntarily rather than is forced to. (And how would one force the truth out of someone anyway. )

I hope he chooses or feel compelled to testify.

 

[james83]

If a man can sound like that, it cannot be denied that Michelle Burger heard it.

She either can hear from her house or she can't. Otherwise her testimony is inaccurate.

In her testimony she says she heard OP shout help help help, therefore she would hear a scream. It can't possibly work both ways.

Michelle Burger heard, female screams, man call for help, gunshots.
Defence say she heard, Oscar scream for help, Oscar call for help, bat hitting door.
She is not denying she heard those thing's, she just insists she heard female screams and gunshots.
For Oscars story to be true, The burgers would have to have slept through the gunshots and have been woken by oscar screaming.

 

[steveml]

Thanks, Ive wondered about this too...is it at ALL possible she did maybe shout out but with the volley of shots, OP couldn't hear or didn't realize it was her?

It's very difficult to say. The noise would be ear-piercing, but it really depends on the order of the shots, where the first shot hit and the gap between the shots.

Johan Stipp's testimony was:

I was awakened by three loud bangs that followed each other quickly, almost on top of each other - Bang bang bang. [FONT=&quot]
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[Gryffindor]

Thanks so much, just saw a clear close-up pic of the bat and saw that it appears to be a used bat with tape where the rubber should have been!

You're very welcome. It's lots to remember and piece together isn't it? X

 

[steveml]

Michelle Burger heard, female screams, man call for help, gunshots.
Defence say she heard, Oscar scream for help, Oscar call for help, bat hitting door.
She is not denying she heard those thing's, she just insists she heard female screams and gunshots.
For Oscars story to be true, The burgers would have to have slept through the gunshots and have been woken by oscar screaming.

Yes, I can see where you're coming from with that.

It's so essential to the case to ascertain how accurate The Stipps testimony is, as it can determine the whole sequence of events.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

You're very welcome. It's lots to remember and piece together isn't it? X

Sure is . Now I know why lots of people here keep notes and then post here for others to reference.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yes, I can see where you're coming from with that.

It's so essential to the case to ascertain how accurate The Stipps testimony is, as it can determine the whole sequence of events.

I suppose we have to wait to hear the defences before making a firm decision .
To be honest as Reeva is dead and can't be brought back I would almost prefer for her sake that it did happen as OP says rather than think of a Terrified Reeva cowering in a toilet and screaming for someone to either stop shooting or save her . It is a heartbreaking case .

 

[james83]

Yes, I can see where you're coming from with that.

It's so essential to the case to ascertain how accurate The Stipps testimony is, as it can determine the whole sequence of events.

Yes seeing as they are the only one's who heard 2 set's of bangs there testimony is arguably the most important.

 

[DebinGA]

"The state’s 20th witness was a crime expert, who said he found no record in police records of Pistorius having been a victim of crime despite the athlete telling his bail application he had been a victim “on many occasions” previously." [Sydney Morning Herald]

From OP's bail application: "I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime, including violent crime. I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9 mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night."

Wasn't OP's bail application a legal document whose facts he swore were true? And would a "reasonable man" fearful of intruders keep a 9 mm Parabellus under his bed but sleep with his balcony doors open?
​

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Yes seeing as they are the only one's who heard 2 set's of bangs there testimony is arguably the most important.

Yes I agree .
It is their testimony that is the most interesting to me because of that very fact ,correct me of I am wrong, but they were quite convinced that they had heard two sets of shots not bangs ?

 

[Gbtaketwo]

"The state’s 20th witness was a crime expert, who said he found no record in police records of Pistorius having been a victim of crime despite the athlete telling his bail application he had been a victim “on many occasions” previously." [Sydney Morning Herald]

From OP's bail application: "I am acutely aware of violent crime being committed by intruders entering homes with a view to commit crime, including violent crime. I have received death threats before. I have also been a victim of violence and of burglaries before. For that reason I kept my firearm, a 9 mm Parabellum, underneath my bed when I went to bed at night."

Wasn't OP's bail application a legal document whose facts he swore were true? And would a "reasonable man" fearful of intruders keep a 9 mm Parabellus under his bed but sleep with his balcony doors open?
​

Ah that explains why the prosecution puta police officer on the stand to confirm statistics ,thought at the time it was just pertaining to his quote fear being over the top but now I realise it was also about proving that he may of lied on his statement . I bet the judge picked up on this immediately .

 

[Gryffindor]

Plus if he genuinely feared for his life, why didn't he put his prosthetic legs on in the 1st place???? It takes him seconds . . . .

 

[Carol70]

You're very welcome. It's lots to remember and piece together isn't it? X

I know right! Ive got so many screen caps and links of the case for reference but can never find anything when I need it lol.

I only recently took note of the time line thread that Minor and the moderators are keeping updated, which is a great help when you need a recap of who heard what and when!!