Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Insp.Dots]

So........

We have unanswered questions, most especially photos
1. Jeans outside
2. Blood splatters in bedroom
3. Broken window downstairs (beneath bathroom)
4. Various other damage

Is SA the same as here, as in after charges are laid questioning of the accused stops?
I am thinking Nel has left those photos in evidence for a reason.
Is it to swoop down on OP in the witness box...and say this, this and this happened OR are we going to be sat here in a years time saying "what was the point in that?"

They say " The truth will out " but will it????

 

[Carol70]

Lol sorry, I see I'm replying to questions that have already been answered...I'm just catching up!

 

[james83]

We keep mentioning that OP left his bedroom sliding doors open though I cannot find anything in print that confirms this. Maybe it was because in his affidavit he only commented on closing everything up.

If they were not open, can you imagine the noise of opening curtains, blinds and doors and closing them again? I cannot think anyone being able to sleep through that. Of course, in his trial statement he has added that he spoke to Reeva, an addition that would allow him to say that the doors were closed and he opened them, ie he will claim that Reeva was awake and heard him do this. However, by adding to his affidavit I am sure the judge will see what he was attempting to do.

from the bail hearing last year

The prosecuting lawyer, Gerrie Nel, asked why Pistorius would sleep with his balcony doors open if he was so scared about crime.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing-day-two-live-coverage

 

[Carol70]

Agreed, it could be he couldn't hear after the first shot, but then wouldn't that make him even more reckless to pump a full 4 bullets into such a tiny space without any warning and without even stopping to listen whether the intruder/burglar had been hit, was calling stop, groaning etc. Surely if that were the case then OP's claim he just wanted to scare the intruder/s/burglar/s (he needs to claim this if he aims to get the charge reduced to culpable homicide) doesn't make sense because 1, at most 2 bullets through the door would have been more than sufficient to scare anyone trapped in such a tiny space and even one shot in the air and/or a verbal warning would have achieved the same. And I recall OP in his statement says he thought there could be two intruders/burglars, so how the heck could anyone not foresee at least one of the these getting mortally hit from one of the 4 soft nosed bullets considering that two in such a tiny toilet would have had even less space to take cover and therefore it would be even more foreseeable that at least one would be killed. jmo.

I doubt he would think about warning and scaring any intruder if he assumed there might be someone on the other side of that door with an AK47 waiting to blast through the door just as he, himself was about to blast through said door.

 

[Interested Bystander]

from the bail hearing last year

The prosecuting lawyer, Gerrie Nel, asked why Pistorius would sleep with his balcony doors open if he was so scared about crime.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing-day-two-live-coverage

Brilliant, that settles the doubt. I was starting to wonder whether I was imagining things as the whole time I have been working on the assumption the doors were open. Quite how OP is going to get round that I don't know. He made an issue of the bathroom window not having burglar bars on it but leaves double sliding doors open, giving far easier access to his property.

 

[steveml]

I doubt he would think about warning and scaring any intruder if he assumed there might be someone on the other side of that door with an AK47 waiting to blast through the door just as he, himself was about to blast through said door.

I agree.

Many people have handguns in their houses, handbags, etc., and we can safely assume that none of them have them just to make a noise like a starting pistol, or to wave around to scare someone.

A gun is a very capable killing machine. Anyone that has a gun for self-protection has the intention to kill with it if it has to be used.

There is no such thing as a civilian using a gun and attempting just to maim a target by carefully selecting a part of the body. That job is for trained professionals.

 

[Mango33]

from the bail hearing last year

The prosecuting lawyer, Gerrie Nel, asked why Pistorius would sleep with his balcony doors open if he was so scared about crime.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/blog/2013/feb/20/oscar-pistorius-bail-hearing-day-two-live-coverage

The line in the affadavit is

"During the early morning hours of 14 February 2013, I woke up, went onto the balcony to bring the fan in and closed the sliding doors, the blinds and the curtains."

It is unclear to me if that means they were open previously or were opened when the fans were collected.

I think Gerrie Nel's question was based on this sentence as he had nothing else to go on. He chose the "already open" interpretation. It is still not clear to me which is correct.

 

[Insp.Dots]

I doubt he would think about warning and scaring any intruder if he assumed there might be someone on the other side of that door with an AK47 waiting to blast through the door just as he, himself was about to blast through said door.

Good point........I was thinking about this. It is well reported that Reeva and her Mum already escaped with there lives following an intruder. They had a lot of counselling to get over it. If OP knew that (which is likely) and did indeed adore her then he would do anything to stop her having to go through that again. Some so called jealous or possessive personalities would also protect they loved one at any cost!

 

[DebinGA]

I agree it seems like a contradiction and he may not be able to convince the judge that fear was a factor here.


However, I have to confess the open second floor doors on a hot night when the AC is broken does not seem that odd to me, even in high crime countries. It is what people do when it is hot, even people who freak out easily.

Hot night + ac broken, yet fans outside on balcony. Why?

 

[minor4th]

That's my blog. I am Juror 13

Very cool! You have done a great job with those pictures. Impressive

 

[patCee]

And not immediately repair a broken window pane downstairs ?

Does anyone know when the downstairs window was broken. I'm curious whether or not it was done the same day as RS was killed.

 

[TorisMom003]

I doubt he would think about warning and scaring any intruder if he assumed there might be someone on the other side of that door with an AK47 waiting to blast through the door just as he, himself was about to blast through said door.

OP claimed that as he was walking to the bathroom with gun in hand, he yelled to Reeva to call police. Once in the bathroom OP claimed he then yelled to the "intruder" to get out of his house. IF those two things are true, then the "intruder" already knew he was on his way to the bathroom. Doesn't make sense does it? OP also stated that he didn't want to turn on the bathroom light because the "intruder" would see it (or something to that effect).

 

[Mango33]

Hot night + ac broken, yet fans outside on balcony. Why?

No idea! Didn't feel it was so hot that he needed them until the time he went for them, maybe.

 

[TorisMom003]

Does anyone know when the downstairs window was broken. I'm curious whether or not it was done the same day as RS was killed.

No we don't. This was not explained in court.

 

[minor4th]

There was a picture of her on Sky News this morning with a leopard print dress on and it didn't look the same as the one in the post and actually looked quite nice on her.

Looks like I was wrong and could have been the same one. They both appear to have the same black straps.

It can be seen here @ 2.07 into the video http://news.sky.com/story/1231424/pistorius-trial-hears-messages-from-baba

 

[Carol70]

So........

We have unanswered questions, most especially photos
1. Jeans outside
2. Blood splatters in bedroom
3. Broken window downstairs (beneath bathroom)
4. Various other damage

Is SA the same as here, as in after charges are laid questioning of the accused stops?
I am thinking Nel has left those photos in evidence for a reason.
Is it to swoop down on OP in the witness box...and say this, this and this happened OR are we going to be sat here in a years time saying "what was the point in that?"

They say " The truth will out " but will it????

Oohhh, I missed jeans outside????
The window is not such a huge issue I think, the house was being renovated and more than likely on the verge of being fixed and there is no possible way to tell how long it had been broken for, OP can easily state it was broken the day before.
Blood splatter in bedroom..he actually doesn't state in his affidavit when he grabbed the phones to call Stander, could have been after he had pulled Reeva out the loo who was drenched in blood, and I'm sure he would have had blood on him...runs to bedroom to get phone next to bed transferring blood....not sure here, just surmising.
I've wondered about the bedroom door...if he had a habit of shooting off his gun unsafely, I'm wondering if he wasn't one of those idiots that would lie in his bed and shoot bullets at his door either with the air rifle (what is that btw?? Does it shoot bullets??? ) or his own gun. Lol, don't slam me, it's a stretch but a thought I guess.

 

[DebinGA]

I doubt he would think about warning and scaring any intruder if he assumed there might be someone on the other side of that door with an AK47 waiting to blast through the door just as he, himself was about to blast through said door.

Speaking of OP giving warning, iirc his friend Darren testified that OP's anger-fueled shot out the sunroof came without warning. Darren, who I assume was driving, yelled something afterward like, "Are you crazy!?!" and OP only laughed. I think OP's former gf, who was in the backseat, has repeated the same tale.

 

[Gryffindor]

That's an interesting thought but not so sure it would sound the same as 1 shot. Double tap shooting is something that requires training and practice. It's not a skill everyone that shoots has. Will be interesting to see if this comes up in the defense strategy. If so, we should hear from trainers, friends or at least someone from the gun range of his ability to so.

Defense has already put forward double tap nonsense. Merely to discredit Reeva screaming, him not hearing the screams and to attempt confusion over order of shots.

Total hogwash! And ballistics, Reeva's injuries, trajectories and ear witnesses are proof that it was 4 individual shots. Weak argument by a desperate defense team!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

We keep mentioning that OP left his bedroom sliding doors open though I cannot find anything in print that confirms this. Maybe it was because in his affidavit he only commented on closing everything up.

If they were not open, can you imagine the noise of opening curtains, blinds and doors and closing them again? I cannot think anyone being able to sleep through that. Of course, in his trial statement he has added that he spoke to Reeva, an addition that would allow him to say that the doors were closed and he opened them, ie he will claim that Reeva was awake and heard him do this. However, by adding to his affidavit I am sure the judge will see what he was attempting to do.

Yes it is quite right that his statement states that he closed the doors blinds and curtains after he brought the fan in therefore the doors ,blinds and curtains must have been opened for him to be able to close them again . Whether they had been opened all night or just opened isn't something I can think about at the moment as It has just occurred to me today that Reeva could not have got out of that bed without him noticing because he was just too close to her where she was laid on the right side of the bed . The door was open ,the blinds were open and the curtains were open and it must have been a wide gap to bring in such a large fan .
Here is the picture showing the cramped space at the side of the bed and the size of the fan he purports to have brought in . His balcony is so small that if she had got out of bed whilst he was on it then they could still have almost brushed shoulders .
He can here faint noises behind solid walls 9m away but cannot see or hear noise and movement literally right next to him .
( Unless of course it was the aliens who threw the jeans outside the bathroom window that also teleported her into a locked toilet :floorlaugh
You have quite rightly pointed out that Reeva was awake so why wouldn't she have put at least a bedside light on knowing that OP was awake as he had just spoken to her and just stepped to the other side of the threshold .
I am thinking OP will be hit with this when he takes the stand or it will be introduced into closing arguments .

 

[DebinGA]

OP claimed that as he was walking to the bathroom with gun in hand, he yelled to Reeva to call police. Once in the bathroom OP claimed he then yelled to the "intruder" to get out of his house. IF those two things are true, then the "intruder" already knew he was on his way to the bathroom. Doesn't make sense does it? OP also stated that he didn't want to turn on the bathroom light because the "intruder" would see it (or something to that effect).

That whole scenario is ludicrous. I so hope OP testifies, because his lies will surely find him out.