Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[lisasalinger]

AK47 ??? I thought we were talking about OP suspecting it was a burglar or two not a terrorist attack !!!

And if OP shot thinking the intruder/burglar was carrying an AK47, I dunno about you, but if I were OP I wudda sure got the hell outta there fast taking Reeva with me in case he had a bomb with him as well... and on my stumps!

Ok, that just made me laugh. We are a creative bunch. :giggle:

 

[Carol70]

AK47 ??? I thought we were talking about OP suspecting it was a burglar or two not a terrorist attack !!!

And if OP shot thinking the intruder/burglar was carrying an AK47, I dunno about you, but if I were OP I wudda sure got the hell outta there fast taking Reeva with me in case he had a bomb with him as well... and on my stumps!

Lol hehe,sorry..was not being literal although AK47's are very popular here. It was the only gun I could think of in conjunction with me using the word blast..sorry :blushing:

 

[Carol70]

I wonder why Nel did not call Mr. and/or Mrs. Nhlengthwa to testify, especially because they called security. I was looking forward to knowing what they heard and possibly saw. Any ideas on that?

I know right....I'm surprised they were not called up. Maybe they had nothing of value to add to the pros.

 

[Insp.Dots]

BBM

IMO, exactly why he should be put away and keep away for life. Does SA have the death penalty?

Fair enough, I was only putting a view not defensive ending him!


Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[lisasalinger]

Wonder if they are going to testify for the defence or just didn't want to get involved .
When you listen to what some go through in the witness box you couldn't really blame them.

They don't really have a choice if they get subpoenaed. Although... not sure if SA has a subpoena process like we do.

But they certainly could be very reluctant witnesses which doesn't help the lawyers. If the State or the Defense thought they would be more of a liability, then they just wouldn't use them.

I really want to hear from them too. Maybe we will.

 

[G.bng]

Good point........I was thinking about this. It is well reported that Reeva and her Mum already escaped with there lives following an intruder. They had a lot of counselling to get over it. If OP knew that (which is likely) and did indeed adore her then he would do anything to stop her having to go through that again. Some so called jealous or possessive personalities would also protect they loved one at any cost!

But Reeva was just a 3-month girlfriend and even had to ask permission to stay over, and from even those few texts he picked on her, criticising her accent, her chewing gum, etc., so it seems a bit of a stretch to think he would have that much love and protection in him at that stage. And don't forget he slept with balcony windows open, ladders under them, two pit-bull type guard dogs he clearly didn't trust to do their job i.e. bark and guard, and he didn't repair a window pane down on the ground floor. And Reeva knew how to use a gun so she wasn't such a delicate flower either. Now I don't know about where you live, but here in the UK, when we get talks or there is a police or Gov. publicity campaign about deterring burglars, ladders and broken window panes are precisely the main things they warn about.

 

[G.bng]

Does anyone know when the downstairs window was broken. I'm curious whether or not it was done the same day as RS was killed.

I don't know but it would certainly be another great coincidence, no burglar but yes a broken window pane on the same day he claims to have heard a burglar. Add it to the coincidence the light of the loo wasn't working, his forgetting the code to his phone, and talking to Reeva shortly before he got up to get the fans so he knew she was in bed. Too many maybe ?

 

[Viper]

We don't know yet. The only detail that we do know from testimony is there were no glass shards found anywhere on the ground. Which means, somebody cleaned them up at some point.

I think most are making the assumption that it was not likely cleaned up on Feb 14, as there was a lot of chaos going on that morning. It probably happened at an earlier time, the glass was cleaned up and the window had not been repaired yet. This would be a very easy entry point for any intruder.

Nel made reference to many things that point to a fight. Wouldn't it be hilarious if Mr. Nel questioned OP about the strewn trophies and broken window in the downstairs and then walked OP through the crime scene asking him about every one of the indications that there was a domestic violence that night that lead to Reeva locking herself first in the bedroom and then after OP made his way past those doors she hid in the WC. Domestic violence ending in homicide.

 

[weeeva]

IMO, Oscar's action's if his story is to be believed don't come across as this deep fear and terror that he talks about, to me they come across more like this is his opportunity to use his gun for real.
I don't buy his story, but if i did i wouldn't buy into this fear and terror business.
And it doesn't depend on anything, it is murder however you look at it, 4 bullets is murder.
JMO.

You could be right.

 

[Mango33]

Yeah, but then why sleep with balcony windows open (curtained ones at that), ladders on the ground below, not immediately repair a broken window pane on the ground floor, and have large pit bull type guard dogs that don't bark and that you can't trust to guard... doesn't seem like the actions of a fearful or burglar conscious individual to me.

I don't know. Individually those examples don't seem to be that significant to me, but maybe enough of them and it becomes convincing that he was chronically lax about security.

As I posted earlier, I think the open second floor doors are pretty normal in summer and the high up broken pane doesn't look like it would help an intruder - that window would be easy to access regardless.

The ladder thing does seem a bit sloppy to me,though.

I can't comment on the dogs much b/c I really don't know what they were supposed to do or what they were trained to react to, if anything.. They do seem to probably be pets, as all the screaming did not appear to faze them.

 

[Gbtaketwo]

They don't really have a choice if they get subpoenaed. Although... not sure if SA has a subpoena process like we do.

But they certainly could be very reluctant witnesses which doesn't help the lawyers. If the State or the Defense thought they would be more of a liability, then they just wouldn't use them.

I really want to hear from them too. Maybe we will.

And the live in staff .
By all accounts the gardener lives in a shed in the back garden which overlooks the bathroom window . Why were neither of them in attendance first ? I understand they were on the premises that night ,could be wrong though .
Thanks for your blog ,it was enlightening and upsetting at the same time because I hadn't seen some of the real close up's of a lot of things

 

[G.bng]

The head and through the hand shot maybe???

Reeva wasn't shot through the hand, according to Mangena's theory with the shot to the head the bullet knicked or scraped through between her two middle fingers of her left hand and from Mangena's hand gestures it appears at the height of the join. All shots are accounted for, i.e. hip, arm and head and a missed shot that ricocheted around the room, so the finger would have to be from one of those three shots.

 

[minor4th]

Thanks for that . At least we can still state he knew exactly how deadly they were .

I think all bullets fired from a 9 mm handgun are deadly

 

[Gryffindor]

Technology is really a downer for murderers.

Lisa do you have a link to your blog please? X thank you

 

[lisasalinger]

Lisa do you have a link to your blog please? X thank you

Here ya go... enjoy I'm one day behind. Will catch up today.

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com/

 

[Carol70]

Lisa do you have a link to your blog please? X thank you

http://juror13lw.wordpress.com
Excellent for reference and pics
Thanks again Lisa

 

[Gbtaketwo]

Nel made reference to many things that point to a fight. Wouldn't it be hilarious if Mr. Nel questioned OP about the strewn trophies and broken window in the downstairs and then walked OP through the crime scene asking him about every one of the indications that there was a domestic violence that night that lead to Reeva locking herself first in the bedroom and then after OP made his way past those doors she hid in the WC. Domestic violence ending in homicide.

Are there any pictures of the broken trophy's anywhere ? I have heard reference of them but not seen pictures

 

[lisasalinger]

Nel made reference to many things that point to a fight. Wouldn't it be hilarious if Mr. Nel questioned OP about the strewn trophies and broken window in the downstairs and then walked OP through the crime scene asking him about every one of the indications that there was a domestic violence that night that lead to Reeva locking herself first in the bedroom and then after OP made his way past those doors she hid in the WC. Domestic violence ending in homicide.

The strewn trophies was just a media rumor. There were no photos in evidence of that. The downstairs lounge area where the trophies were looked to be in order, the only thing they found were blood spatters on the sofa and chair. The Prosecution expert determined that was likely from when Oscar carried her downstairs. The lounge is just below the landing of the stairs.

With that said, if you scan thru all of the screen shots of the scene, particularly the bedroom and the bathroom... it really does read like a fight. I'm extremely intrigued by the bedroom. Nel absolutely will ask him about the damage to the bedroom when he is on the stand. If he doesn't, I will fall out of my chair. That has to be discussed.

In my eyes, it would be an enormous coincidence that the bedroom door has one, possibly two, gun marks in it, banging marks near the door handle and damage down near the locking mechanism... and it's not at all related to the dead woman in the bathroom who is also behind a locked door with bang marks and bullet holes in it.

 

[minor4th]

I suppose that OP's father didn't have a safe in which he could store "his" illegal ammo?!? I know I always keep my father's illegal items in my home and then behave in a manner in which the police are sure to arrive at and search my home.

I have no idea what this means in terms of the law - I would think having possession of illegal ammunition is the offense, irrespective of who owned it. But who knows what the law is in SA?

 

[minor4th]

Broken, strewn trophies was an early media rumor/Botha fabrication. It has been shown to be false.