Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[JuneBug67]

There was a clip posted a few pages back from YouTube, which demonstrates him doing this. It's seconds, literally :-D

Thanks for the info. I scanned a bit but couldn't find it. Can anybody point those of us who might have missed it (the clip of Oscar putting on his legs in seconds) in the right direction?

 

[steveml]

But Reeva was just a 3-month girlfriend and even had to ask permission to stay over, and from even those few texts he picked on her, criticising her accent, her chewing gum, etc., so it seems a bit of a stretch to think he would have that much love and protection in him at that stage. And don't forget he slept with balcony windows open, ladders under them, two pit-bull type guard dogs he clearly didn't trust to do their job i.e. bark and guard, and he didn't repair a window pane down on the ground floor. And Reeva knew how to use a gun so she wasn't such a delicate flower either. Now I don't know about where you live, but here in the UK, when we get talks or there is a police or Gov. publicity campaign about deterring burglars, ladders and broken window panes are precisely the main things they warn about.

Would it not seem likely that Reeva would ask OP first so she could prearrange times, as Gina's father always met Reeva half way in his car and followed her home so she would be safe?

This may also give us reason to believe that the place is not as entirely safe as you and I may be used to.

 

[james83]

I have not read anywhere that he actually SAID that he chose not to wake his girlfriend. Making a level headed choice in the circumstances he found himself in would be difficult for anybody, even more so if you are a severely disabled person. I don't know if SA law recognizes mitigating circumstances, but if it does it should apply in this case. Without his prosthetics he is a severely disabled man, which must have an impact on his mental state, and I think it would be wrong to ignore this. Of course I still do not know if he knew who was behind that door.

Yes but he chose not to put them on, it was his decision to go charging into the dark.
So severely disabled he can carry 2 fans in on his own in the dark?.
And i come back to the point again, his disability in no way impaired his ability to identify who was in the toilet and in no way made him fire 4 shots into a very small space.
Just to add i am basing this on his own story which i personally don't believe for a second.

 

[G.bng]

Just a thought here...

If this was a normal witnessed crime and we had two eye-witnesses one that was twice as far away as the other, we would naturally expect the nearer witness to provide more accurate information.

As we're all aware, we do not have eye-witnesses, we only have ear-witnesses.

With this in mind, does that lead anyone to think that the weight of probability for an accurate witness statement should perhaps remain the same.

That the one closest should be the more reliable?

The Stipps - 235 feet from OP's house.
Ms Burger & Husband - 580 feet from OP's house

i.e The Burgers live more than double the distance away from OP's house than The Stipps.

:waitasec:

I don't think visual distance sand audible distances are comparable in any way. The things we see, except if it's a mirage (and I saw one once!) can't travel while sound does. And the distance sound travels is affected by so many parameters, the sound itself, e.g. pitch, frequency, decibels, etc. etc., as well as atmospheric conditions, e.g. wind, time of day, physical terrain, vegetation, buildings, humidity, etc. etc. We used to hear the people in a campsite miles away on a clear hot night in a summer house my father had near the beach, and you can sometimes hear the people conversing in the next village miles away as if they were beside you on the roof terrace at a friend's house in the south of Spain something to do with both villages being high up on a rocky formation in the middle of a high valley that encircles them. Or think of the whispering galleries where, and I just looked this one up on WP, sound travels on what are called, believe me, "whispering gallery waves", and it appears you get the same effect in some caves.

 

[steveml]

I don't think visual distance sand audible distances are comparable in any way. The things we see, except if it's a mirage (and I saw one once!) can't travel while sound does. And the distance sound travels is affected by so many parameters, the sound itself, e.g. pitch, frequency, decibels, etc. etc., as well as atmospheric conditions, e.g. wind, time of day, physical terrain, vegetation, buildings, humidity, etc. etc. We used to hear the people in a campsite miles away on a clear hot night in a summer house my father had near the beach, and you can sometimes hear the people conversing in the next village miles away as if they were beside you on the roof terrace at a friend's house in the south of Spain something to do with both villages being high up on a rocky formation in the middle of a high valley that encircles them. Or think of the whispering galleries where, and I just looked this one up on WP, sound travels on what are called, believe me, "whispering gallery waves", and it appears you get the same effect in some caves.

Thanks. I have a recording studio and work with decibels. You are indeed correct regarding the possible differing conditions, however the one aspect you're missing is that sound waves do not gain amplitude. They lose amplitude as they travel. There are times when sound will travel further than others, but the closer you are to that sound source the louder it will be.

 

[TorisMom003]

Would it not seem likely that Reeva would ask OP first so she could prearrange times, as Gina's father always met Reeva half way in his car and followed her home so she would be safe?

This may also give us reason to believe that the place is not as entirely safe as you and I may be used to.

What was the time of that text to Reeva's roommate that stated it was late and she was going to stay with OP that night? And IF Reeva was the one that sent that text then doesn't it stand to reason that Reeva did not ask OP in advance so that she could let the friends father know that he didn't have to meet her that night?

 

[Viper]

The strewn trophies was just a media rumor. There were no photos in evidence of that. The downstairs lounge area where the trophies were looked to be in order, the only thing they found were blood spatters on the sofa and chair. The Prosecution expert determined that was likely from when Oscar carried her downstairs. The lounge is just below the landing of the stairs.

With that said, if you scan thru all of the screen shots of the scene, particularly the bedroom and the bathroom... it really does read like a fight. I'm extremely intrigued by the bedroom. Nel absolutely will ask him about the damage to the bedroom when he is on the stand. If he doesn't, I will fall out of my chair. That has to be discussed.

In my eyes, it would be an enormous coincidence that the bedroom door has one, possibly two, gun marks in it, banging marks near the door handle and damage down near the locking mechanism... and it's not at all related to the dead woman in the bathroom who is also behind a locked door with bang marks and bullet holes in it.

BIB LOL, no kidding! And don't forget that the outside of the bedroom door has a hole from a pellet fired from an air gun in it too!

 

[G.bng]

You would think so, and we know that Mr Nhlengthwa next door called security, so something must have caused him to do that.

There are a few reasons why people might not hear, I suppose. Listening to music on earphones? In the shower? Sleeping with earplugs? Deaf as a post? lol. No doubt OP's employees didn't hear a thing. :wink:

Yes, no doubt neither his employees nor his friends next door and on the estate didn't hear a thing, or if they did sure they heard OP... ; - )

 

[nastasya]

Didn't Mrs Van Der Merwe herself say herself that her husband corrected what she said she heard and it was in his opinion Oscar?

Why would you accept her husband's "correction" that the woman's voice Van der Merwe heard as being Pistorius" voice? How would he know who's voice it was? No matter what he said, it doesn't mean "we know" who's voice it was just because he said it.

 

[steveml]

What was the time of that text to Reeva's roommate that stated it was late and she was going to stay with OP that night? And IF Reeva was the one that sent that text then doesn't it stand to reason that Reeva did not ask OP in advance so that she could let the friends father know that he didn't have to meet her that night?

You could well be right for that specific night :thumb:

I was referring in general to the post that suggested that Reeva had to ask permission to stay, as a general rule. I think the topic was with regard to the possessive nature of OP.

 

[nastasya]

The other day we were discussing decibel levels and such and found that the db of a gun fired is at a level that can cause great pain and damage no matter how long the exposure. It's possible that fired in an enclosed space that reverberates sound, the gunshots left OP temporarily deafened or affected his hearing and he couldn't hear her scream if she did.

ETA: here's the chart I found:

http://www.gcaudio.com/resources/howtos/loudness.html

Amazingly, no body ever went deaf playing cricket. Go figure.

 

[G.bng]

It has been skipped over so far but introduced into evidence by means of the photographer. Could be brought up at some point .
This again screams to me why no evidence from the live in 's .If we break anything or have something that needs mending we ask staff to arrange for to to be fixed. They should at least have been able to narrow down when it was done .
Maybe though the staff have been interviewed and just confirmed it had been done for a long time ,that being the case why include the photo's at all ?

Ah, I remember now. Nel asked the photographer or the inspector or both whether they found any broken glass inside or out and they said no.

Also can't Nel ask the live-ins and/or neighbours, if the defence calls them to testify when it was broken? Or could it not be that Nel did ask but they all say they can't remember, (a job is a job is a job in SA) or that it was done that night... but if it was done that night begs the question if OP heard the latch of the bathroom window, surely he heard the sound of breaking glass ?

 

[Interested Bystander]

It has an entry and exit point though. I can't imagine what else would cause that other than some type of projectile.

Also, the locking mechanism of that door is on the bottom of the door. Oscar claims the bedroom door was locked. Why is his door smashed in right next to the locking mechanism? That is a big problem for me.

I think that Nel specifically did not explain this evidence, or have his experts explain the evidence, because he wants to catch Oscar up. If he had completely shown his hand, Oscar could have prepped. Oscar is going in to his testimony somewhat blind as to the ultimate State theory at this point. I have to believe this. If I am wrong, I will gladly eat my words

Could they be holes made by the air rifle? Question: Do air rifles make much noise? Even though I have been shot by one I did not hear, or was not aware, that it made enough noise to make me wonder what was happening.

 

[steveml]

BIB LOL, no kidding! And don't forget that the outside of the bedroom door has a hole from a pellet fired from an air gun in it too!

Has that been confirmed yet? It did look like it was smaller than a bullet-hole.

If it is, it probably wouldn't be brought into evidence unless the air-gun could be brought into the proceedings.

 

[steveml]

Could they be holes made by the air rifle? Question: Do air rifles make much noise? Even though I have been shot by one I did not hear, or was not aware, that it made enough noise to make me wonder what was happening.

Not a great deal as they're powered by air. The main noise noise that would be heard is from whatever the pellet hits. It probably wouldn't be heard very much outside the house (if the windows were open).

That must have hurt by the way.

 

[Deleted member 102539]

When I was on TV during my detective series days, my cream raincoat was stolen. However I didn't report it as it would immediately end up in the newspaper. Sorry, couldn't resist. :facepalm:

On a serious note, I'll throw this thought out, and I'm not going to qualify it as I haven't a clue regarding celebrity status, so don't gang up on me if you think I'm just looking to find an excuse for OP...

Could it be that we don't quite understand the way celebrities live their lives? When things happen, stuff gets stolen etc. somebody else may well decide who deals with it, and if it's reported at all. Everything is PR and media related, with worries about leaks to the press. Both Reeva and OP would be subject to this. If it had been determined OP had fired the gun in the restaurant at the time, you can be sure one of his PR people would have been in touch immediately with the restaurant to try and avoid unwanted publicity.

:floorlaugh: :floorlaugh: Nice note, Inspektor Columbo!

 

[nastasya]

imo, it doesn't really matter to me how many times and when he was burgled etc...

Exactly.

It doesn't matter if the killer had been robbed that morning. You still don't wake up from a sound sleep, hear your woman in the bathroom, and fire four gunshots through the door.

That's insane. Special forces under siege wouldn't do that in a war zone.

 

[Carol70]

Would it not seem likely that Reeva would ask OP first so she could prearrange times, as Gina's father always met Reeva half way in his car and followed her home so she would be safe?

This may also give us reason to believe that the place is not as entirely safe as you and I may be used to.

Which reminds me, was there any evidence in court with Reevas phone history that she had let Cecil Myers know she was not comming home as it was late and decided to sleep over? Why have an over night bag if she wasn't planning on sleeping over??

 

[Carol70]

He didn't need to say that because he knew Reeva was awake so it seems very strange to not have ushered her to safety first or into hiding under the bed even . He was supposed to be right next to her . Whilst he was retrieving the gun he could have told her to phone police .
Ps not trying to be snappy her I am having trouble with my smilies lol

What makes you think that OP "knew" Reeva was awake??? I just checked his statement and he didn't mention that at all unless it was mentioned in testimony somewhere?.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Which reminds me, was there any evidence in court with Reevas phone history that she had let Cecil Myers know she was not comming home as it was late and decided to sleep over? Why have an over night bag if she wasn't planning on sleeping over??

Apparently she had stayed the previous two nights.