Trial Discussion Thread #13 - 14.03.25, Day 15

[Viper]

It has an entry and exit point though. I can't imagine what else would cause that other than some type of projectile.

Also, the locking mechanism of that door is on the bottom of the door. Oscar claims the bedroom door was locked. Why is his door smashed in right next to the locking mechanism? That is a big problem for me.

I think that Nel specifically did not explain this evidence, or have his experts explain the evidence, because he wants to catch Oscar up. If he had completely shown his hand, Oscar could have prepped. Oscar is going in to his testimony somewhat blind as to the ultimate State theory at this point. I have to believe this. If I am wrong, I will gladly eat my words

BIB They found his air gun in the bedroom. Must have been a very nice one, very powerful to shoot thtough a door. I suspect that is why Mr. Nel spent time getting evidence about the damaged window in the downstairs seating area.

 

[Carol70]

Interesting too is the calls Osacr made that early morning...yes he called Stander, Netcare, voicemail, Justin, Dad and then Piet. Who was Piet? He is a lawyer. Straight up! Grieving for his wasted girl, you havent even got her blood off your body but dad tells you to ring Piet.....the first thing you do is lawyer up. Yep. Piet Pistorius Criminal Lawyer.


4:01 - Voice call - outgoing - from a number saves as "Deco", revealed to belong to Heinreich Pistorius
4:09 to 4:10 - Voice calls - outgoing - to a number saved as "Piet", lasting between 3 and 11 seconds
4:11 - Voice call - incoming - from Piet, lasting 49s

Piet is his long time manager, not his attorney.

 

[screecher]

Maybe it was the neighbors next door with the lights on who were talking loudly before the shots rang out. Interested in hearing their testimony.

bwahahaha

 

[steveml]

One 'unused' witness who seems likely to be called would be Hilton Botha, the initial investigating officer in the Steenkamp case. He was the first police officer to arrive at Pistorius' home but has been accused by the defense of contaminating the scene.

Journalists in court in Pretoria are reporting that one of Pistorius' legal team, Brian Webber, when asked whether the athlete would be testifying, said: 'We have no choice … it's a question of when.' He added it was 'likely' that Pistorius would be first to give evidence for the defense.

Source:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/25/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-trial-day-14

 

[nastasya]

If pistorius never reported these supposed crimes against him then those claims are meaningless and I can't see the judge buying into it.

Please don't fall for this defense ploy.

Even if Pistorius was a crime victim it has no bearing on his guilt. Neither does the fact that he felt vulnerable.

If that were the case every 5' 2" woman who was beaten once by a boyfriend would be given a free pass to shoot her husband if he raised his voice.

 

[Cherwell]

What makes you think that OP "knew" Reeva was awake??? I just checked his statement and he didn't mention that at all unless it was mentioned in testimony somewhere?.

That would be the bail hearing statement. He has since added to that, saying that he was talking to Reeva just before he went to the balcony for the fans. (At the same time he changed this from one fan to two).

 

[G.bng]

I found it odd that he stated "there are no burglar bars across my bathroom window" in his bail affidavit because there are no burglar bars across any of the windows that we observed from the photos. It seems like a fancy embellishment to me.

Great observation... in his affidavit it sounds like there are bars everywhere else but sod's law not on the bathroom window !

 

[Carol70]

Not a great deal as they're powered by air. The main noise noise that would be heard is from whatever the pellet hits. It probably wouldn't be heard very much outside the house (if the windows were open).

That must have hurt by the way.

Ahhh thanks, was also wondering if those holes were made by the air gun...are the pellets hard enough to penetrate wood thou?

 

[steveml]

Ahhh thanks, was also wondering if those holes were made by the air gun...are the pellets hard enough to penetrate wood thou?

Most certainly. Internal doors of a house are not usually that solid or heavy.

 

[Interested Bystander]

Not a great deal as they're powered by air. The main noise noise that would be heard is from whatever the pellet hits. It probably wouldn't be heard very much outside the house (if the windows were open).

That must have hurt by the way.

I was only 10 at the time and it was a bit of a shock. I had a heavy duty winter coat on and whilst it was painful it didn't actually penetrate through the layers. I did, however, have a large bruise with a strange white centre. The lads were in a garden that backed onto a friends. I think they were shooting at cans or something similar, but there was only a hedge between the gardens so no fence to stop it. Also the gardens were very long (for the UK) and I was told that they were shooting from at least 200 feet away. Another 6 inches higher and I would have been hit in the neck :scared:

 

[Carol70]

One 'unused' witness who seems likely to be called would be Hilton Botha, the initial investigating officer in the Steenkamp case. He was the first police officer to arrive at Pistorius' home but has been accused by the defense of contaminating the scene.

Journalists in court in Pretoria are reporting that one of Pistorius' legal team, Brian Webber, when asked whether the athlete would be testifying, said: 'We have no choice … it's a question of when.' He added it was 'likely' that Pistorius would be first to give evidence for the defense.

Source:
http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/25/oscar-pistorius-reeva-steenkamp-trial-day-14

Omg...Friday at work is going to be torture if OP is on the stand, I'm going to miss half of the evidence. Ummmm "cough" I feel a cold comming on haha
And as for Hilton, he did bungle the scene among other things, roux is going to haul hilton to the stand kicking and screaming, while he rips him a new one.

 

[steveml]

I was only 10 at the time and it was a bit of a shock. I had a heavy duty winter coat on and whilst it was painful it didn't actually penetrate through the layers. I did, however, have a large bruise with a strange white centre. The lads were in a garden that backed onto a friends. I think they were shooting at cans or something similar, but there was only a hedge between the gardens so no fence to stop it. Also the gardens were very long (for the UK) and I was told that they were shooting from at least 200 feet away. Another 6 inches higher and I would have been hit in the neck :scared:

Eek. With you mentioning having a thick coat on, it reminded me of a friend of mine who was shot in the back with a pellet gun in the local park when I was a kid. He was wearing a very loose jacket, but again the material seemed to absorb most of the speed of the pellet. He was lucky as well - just a bruise.

 

[Insp.Dots]

But Reeva was just a 3-month girlfriend and even had to ask permission to stay over, and from even those few texts he picked on her, criticising her accent, her chewing gum, etc., so it seems a bit of a stretch to think he would have that much love and protection in him at that stage. And don't forget he slept with balcony windows open, ladders under them, two pit-bull type guard dogs he clearly didn't trust to do their job i.e. bark and guard, and he didn't repair a window pane down on the ground floor. And Reeva knew how to use a gun so she wasn't such a delicate flower either. Now I don't know about where you live, but here in the UK, when we get talks or there is a police or Gov. publicity campaign about deterring burglars, ladders and broken window panes are precisely the main things they warn about.

Fair points. I'm probably just trying to look for a nicer explanation that the horrific alternative. They were only pet dogs actually but maybe he should have had guard dogs if he was so security conscious. I guess or hope we get some of the answers when he testifies!
I do live in the UK, in Cornwall and thankfully so far with a low crime rate, but yeah I know what you mean.

Sent from my KFSOWI using Tapatalk

 

[steveml]

With me saying earlier that celebrities probably don't report minor crimes because of publicity, there's bound to be a story in tomorrow's news of Rhianna in her slippers, trotting down to the local police station to report a barbeque being stolen from her garden. :doh:

 

[nastasya]

For sure!! I do not dispute that he absolutely intended to kill whoever he thought was behind that door.

The person behind the door was Reeva.
The person behind the door was not threatening the killer in any way.
The killer was not in imminent danger when he picked up his gun.
The killer walked from one room, down a hallway, into another room for the sole purpose of killing the person behind the door.

That's by definition premeditated murder. Fabricating illusions of an intruder does not make it any less so.

 

[G.bng]

They don't really have a choice if they get subpoenaed. Although... not sure if SA has a subpoena process like we do.

But they certainly could be very reluctant witnesses which doesn't help the lawyers. If the State or the Defense thought they would be more of a liability, then they just wouldn't use them.

I really want to hear from them too. Maybe we will.

The must do because Fresco, or perhaps it was Darren, actually stated they had been subpoenaed and UK law, on which SA, basis a lot of its procedures, laws, etc., has them.

 

[Carol70]

With me saying earlier that celebrities probably don't report minor crimes because of publicity, there's bound to be a story in tomorrow's news of Rhianna in her slippers, trotting down to the local police station to report a barbeque being stolen from her garden. :doh:

Hahaha, that's Murphy for you!!

With that I'm off, thanks for the constructive chat everyone, have an awesome day/night where ever you are in the world!

 

[Gbtaketwo]

That would be the bail hearing statement. He has since added to that, saying that he was talking to Reeva just before he went to the balcony for the fans. (At the same time he changed this from one fan to two).

Yes because maybe he thought his alibi was lacking and needed a little more time elapse to give Reeva enough time to get into the toilet supposedly unseen or unheard
but IMO it hasn't helped at all because in either case she could not have got out of bed ,walked down the side of the bed totally adjacent to the open doors through the bedroom and then the dressing room round the corner out of sight in the time that it took him to pick up the first fan and turn Back into the bedroom and take the two steps he would likely have needed because his tiny balcony is only about 4ft deep max.
I seem to be in the minority here but it just couldn't have happened as he stated . The balcony and Reeva were just too close with no glass,blind or curtains he could not have failed to see her get up .
Once she stood up from the bed they were probably only a couple of feet apart despite him being on the balcony .

 

[weeeva]

Yes but he chose not to put them on, it was his decision to go charging into the dark.
So severely disabled he can carry 2 fans in on his own in the dark?.
And i come back to the point again, his disability in no way impaired his ability to identify who was in the toilet and in no way made him fire 4 shots into a very small space.
Just to add i am basing this on his own story which i personally don't believe for a second.

I am talking about the impact his disability may have on his mental state. He was not in a state of panic when he was taking in the fans, his mental state changed when he heard the noise in the toilet, he went into survival mode, kill or be killed. I am giving him the benefit of the doubt here, keeping an open mind. I am basing my opinion on his own story too, which I think could just be true.

 

[Gavel Rash]

Piet is his long time manager, not his attorney.

But...you would think he would spell it right in his contacts list after that long. Peet not Piet.

Contact - Oscar Pistorius
oscarpistorius.com/contact/
Managed by Peet van Zyl of In-Site Athlete Management (Pty) Ltd In-Site Athlete Management (Pty) Ltd PO Box 24. Barrydale 6750. South Africa. Phone +27 11 ...